Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Looking for counsel . . .

 

A couple of securements:

Roofwalk to car

Latitudinals to brass subframe

Subframe to roofwalk

 

Plano recommends CA.  I’ve heard (read) that some prefer canopy glue.  I have tried tinning the brass subframes and then attempting to solder on the latitudinals, without notable success.  Stainless doesn’t like to be soldered to, apparently, unless I should use a different flux.  (?)

 

Recommendations welcome.

 

Schuyler

 


Brian Carlson
 

Roof walk to car. - barge cement

The other two I use CA

Brian J. Carlson 

On Dec 18, 2017, at 11:19 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Looking for counsel . . .

 

A couple of securements:

Roofwalk to car

Latitudinals to brass subframe

Subframe to roofwalk

 

Plano recommends CA.  I’ve heard (read) that some prefer canopy glue.  I have tried tinning the brass subframes and then attempting to solder on the latitudinals, without notable success.  Stainless doesn’t like to be soldered to, apparently, unless I should use a different flux.  (?)

 

Recommendations welcome.

 

Schuyler

 


Tony Thompson
 

Canopy glue, best by far. CA will eventually let loose with expansion and contraction, canopy glue will stay glued, it's flexible. Voice of experience.
Tony Thompson 


On Dec 18, 2017, at 8:19 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Looking for counsel . . .

 

A couple of securements:

Roofwalk to car

Latitudinals to brass subframe

Subframe to roofwalk

 

Plano recommends CA.  I’ve heard (read) that some prefer canopy glue.  I have tried tinning the brass subframes and then attempting to solder on the latitudinals, without notable success.  Stainless doesn’t like to be soldered to, apparently, unless I should use a different flux.  (?)

 

Recommendations welcome.

 

Schuyler

 


Brent Greer
 

Is there a brand name for canopy glue that you prefer?  I've never used it before and my local hobby store owner gave me a puzzled blank stare when I attempted to enquire about it with him.

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 12:55:40 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 

Canopy glue, best by far. CA will eventually let loose with expansion and contraction, canopy glue will stay glued, it's flexible. Voice of experience.
Tony Thompson 


On Dec 18, 2017, at 8:19 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Looking for counsel . . .

 

A couple of securements:

Roofwalk to car

Latitudinals to brass subframe

Subframe to roofwalk

 

Plano recommends CA.  I’ve heard (read) that some prefer canopy glue.  I have tried tinning the brass subframes and then attempting to solder on the latitudinals, without notable success.  Stainless doesn’t like to be soldered to, apparently, unless I should use a different flux.  (?)

 

Recommendations welcome.

 

Schuyler

 


Bryian Sones
 

I use canopy glue also. My favorite is " Pacer, Formula 560"


Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:21 AM, "Brent Greer studegator@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Is there a brand name for canopy glue that you prefer?  I've never used it before and my local hobby store owner gave me a puzzled blank stare when I attempted to enquire about it with him.

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer

From: STMFC@... on behalf of Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 12:55:40 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 
Canopy glue, best by far. CA will eventually let loose with expansion and contraction, canopy glue will stay glued, it's flexible. Voice of experience.
Tony Thompson 


On Dec 18, 2017, at 8:19 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
Looking for counsel . . .
 
A couple of securements:
Roofwalk to car
Latitudinals to brass subframe
Subframe to roofwalk
 
Plano recommends CA.  I’ve heard (read) that some prefer canopy glue.  I have tried tinning the brass subframes and then attempting to solder on the latitudinals, without notable success.  Stainless doesn’t like to be soldered to, apparently, unless I should use a different flux.  (?)
 
Recommendations welcome.
 
Schuyler
 



Benjamin Hom
 

Brent Greer asked:
"Is there a brand name for canopy glue that you prefer?  I've never used it before and my local hobby store owner gave me a puzzled blank stare when I attempted to enquire about it with him."

Tony's blog post on canopy glue, including several brands:

Your local hobby shop must not do any scale aircraft modeling business, as this product is geared specifically for that application (hence the name "canopy glue".


Ben Hom



Brent Greer
 

Thanks Ben ! (and Tony !!)

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 6:20:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 

Brent Greer asked:
"Is there a brand name for canopy glue that you prefer?  I've never used it before and my local hobby store owner gave me a puzzled blank stare when I attempted to enquire about it with him."

Tony's blog post on canopy glue, including several brands:

Your local hobby shop must not do any scale aircraft modeling business, as this product is geared specifically for that application (hence the name "canopy glue".


Ben Hom



Marty McGuirk
 

Brett, 

When we were having lots of issues with etched metal running boards and locomotive grills popping off due to extreme temperature shifts in shipping product back in my days at Intermountain we determined that Pacer Formula 560 offered an idea solution.

It's readily available from shops that specialize in model airplanes, but is also available from places like FOS Scale Models since craftsman structure kit builders use this stuff as an adhesive (it's ideal for gluing wood parts together) and as a clear window glazing (in larger areas it dries clear and shiny looking like window glass)


Good luck,


Marty

  

On December 19, 2017 at 8:24 AM "Brent Greer studegator@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Ben ! (and Tony !!)

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 6:20:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 

 

Brent Greer asked:
"Is there a brand name for canopy glue that you prefer?  I've never used it before and my local hobby store owner gave me a puzzled blank stare when I attempted to enquire about it with him."

Tony's blog post on canopy glue, including several brands:

Your local hobby shop must not do any scale aircraft modeling business, as this product is geared specifically for that application (hence the name "canopy glue".


Ben Hom


 

 

 


 


John Sykes III
 

Based on a recommendation from Paul Lubliner (owner of Highliner models) I use MicroScale Micro Liquitape, with great success.  The grill or roofwalk may come off with rough handling, but sticks right back in place.

If you want to solder stainless steel, try a silver solder and compatible flux.

-- John


Brent Greer
 

Thank you Marty!


Brent



Dr. J. Brent Greer



From: STMFC@... on behalf of Marty McGuirk mjmcguirk@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 8:48 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 

Brett, 

When we were having lots of issues with etched metal running boards and locomotive grills popping off due to extreme temperature shifts in shipping product back in my days at Intermountain we determined that Pacer Formula 560 offered an idea solution.

It's readily available from shops that specialize in model airplanes, but is also available from places like FOS Scale Models since craftsman structure kit builders use this stuff as an adhesive (it's ideal for gluing wood parts together) and as a clear window glazing (in larger areas it dries clear and shiny looking like window glass)


Good luck,


Marty

  

On December 19, 2017 at 8:24 AM "Brent Greer studegator@... [STMFC]" wrote:

 

Thanks Ben ! (and Tony !!)

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 6:20:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 

 

Brent Greer asked:
"Is there a brand name for canopy glue that you prefer?  I've never used it before and my local hobby store owner gave me a puzzled blank stare when I attempted to enquire about it with him."

Tony's blog post on canopy glue, including several brands:

modelingthesp.blogspot.com
Some people reading this title will say “yeah, sure,” and doubtless others may say “what the heck is canopy glue?” For the latter folks, read on.



Your local hobby shop must not do any scale aircraft modeling business, as this product is geared specifically for that application (hence the name "canopy glue".


Ben Hom


 

 

 


 


O Fenton Wells
 

Gentlemen, I realize I'm old but I've been using contact cement thinned with lacquer thinner for roofwalks, Farr grills and other non-like surfaces for years, even the Kadee roofwalks to non Kadee cars.  I use an old paint brush and wax paper. I place a dab of cement on the wax paper then dip the paint brush in the lacquer thinner and place the thinned cement on both surfaces and let it dry for a while then place them together.  I like an old very thin brush for roof walks and even though I do manage to get some extra on the roofwalk it is not noticeable once installed and painted.  
I've tried Canopy Cement and maybe I purchased the wrong kind but I didn't feel I got solid results with it.   I went back to my old antiquated method as outlined above.
Fenton

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Brent Greer studegator@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Marty!


Brent



Dr. J. Brent Greer



From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Marty McGuirk mjmcguirk@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 8:48 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 

Brett, 

When we were having lots of issues with etched metal running boards and locomotive grills popping off due to extreme temperature shifts in shipping product back in my days at Intermountain we determined that Pacer Formula 560 offered an idea solution.

It's readily available from shops that specialize in model airplanes, but is also available from places like FOS Scale Models since craftsman structure kit builders use this stuff as an adhesive (it's ideal for gluing wood parts together) and as a clear window glazing (in larger areas it dries clear and shiny looking like window glass)


Good luck,


Marty

  

On December 19, 2017 at 8:24 AM "Brent Greer studegator@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Ben ! (and Tony !!)

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 6:20:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks
 
 

 

Brent Greer asked:
"Is there a brand name for canopy glue that you prefer?  I've never used it before and my local hobby store owner gave me a puzzled blank stare when I attempted to enquire about it with him."

Tony's blog post on canopy glue, including several brands:

Some people reading this title will say “yeah, sure,” and doubtless others may say “what the heck is canopy glue?” For the latter folks, read on.



Your local hobby shop must not do any scale aircraft modeling business, as this product is geared specifically for that application (hence the name "canopy glue".


Ben Hom


 

 

 


 




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Tim O'Connor
 

Schuyler

"Canopy Glue" is just a white glue that dries clear. There are MANY brands
with similar qualities. But I agree it works just fine for me. CA always fails,
given enough time and temperature variations.

One exception - on some covered hopper models with polystyrene running board
supports, I have simply used Tenax - the "melting" of the styrene grabs the etched
running board and holds it securely. The cars I have done this way have never come
loose. I suppose it would work on a box car too if you use something like the Moloco
running board supports, or if you make your own.

I always apply a straight piece of wood with a small weight to hold the rb while
the glue sets. This results in a perfectly flat rb and ensures good contact at all
points. I always give it 24 hours to set.

Tim O'Connor



Canopy glue, best by far. CA will eventually let loose with expansion and contraction, canopy glue will stay glued, it's flexible. Voice of experience.
Tony Thompson


Tim O'Connor
 



Microscale Krystal Klear is exactly the same stuff. I use them interchangeably.
The canopy glue containers seem to dry out, while the Microscale adhesive is in
a container with a screw top and stays fresh for many years.



When we were having lots of issues with etched metal running boards and locomotive grills popping off due to extreme temperature shifts in shipping product back in my days at Intermountain we determined that Pacer Formula 560 offered an idea solution.

It's readily available from shops that specialize in model airplanes, but is also available from places like FOS Scale Models since craftsman structure kit builders use this stuff as an adhesive (it's ideal for gluing wood parts together) and as a clear window glazing (in larger areas it dries clear and shiny looking like window glass)

Good luck,

Marty


Tim O'Connor
 


Schuyler, I've had very good luck with CA etch-to-etch applications.

For example, some Plano MORTON running boards come with a separate "flange" that
is applied lengthwise to the running board to simulate the rolled edge of this type
of running board. I use CA for that application, and it never comes loose.

For attaching the RB to the model however, a flexible adhesive is called for, because
of the differential expansion and contraction of resins vs metal. White glue or contact
cement. But only use contact cement if you NEVER want them to come apart. (I've repaired
or replaced a couple of running boards, and that requires removing them.)

Tim O'Connor



Plano recommends CA.  I�ve heard (read) that some prefer canopy glue.  I have tried tinning the brass subframes and then attempting to solder on the latitudinals, without notable success.  Stainless doesn�t like to be soldered to, apparently, unless I should use a different flux.  (?)
 
Recommendations welcome.
 
Schuyler


Andy Miller
 

Schuyler



As you know, I have been experimenting with UV sensitive glue for a few
weeks now and it has been fantastic in most applications. While I haven't
tried it for running boards, it seems that it would be ideal. It is clear
and viscous, so unlike ACC it won't be sucked up into all the little spaces.
You could put a small amount on the supports and the position the running
board. It will stay tacky forever until you shine the UV light on it. Then
it "freezes" in 3 second and forms an incredibly strong bond.



BTW The one case where UV sensitive glue does not work is in joining broad
areas. The UV light never gets deep into the depths of the bradly glued
area to set the glue. The glue only sets around the edge of the glued area
leaving the inner cement still uncured.



Andy Miller



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 11:20 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Adhesive for Plano Roof Walks





Looking for counsel . . .



A couple of securements:

Roofwalk to car

Latitudinals to brass subframe

Subframe to roofwalk



Plano recommends CA. I've heard (read) that some prefer canopy glue. I
have tried tinning the brass subframes and then attempting to solder on the
latitudinals, without notable success. Stainless doesn't like to be
soldered to, apparently, unless I should use a different flux. (?)



Recommendations welcome.



Schuyler


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  Microscale Krystal Klear is identical to canopy glue.  A form of
white glue that dries clear.  I consider it to be an essential
tool in my "arsenal".

  It is sold to be used as window glazing (it dries clear).  I've been
using it as a basic adhesive in all kinds of applications for a
couple of decades (most likely longer) and it has never "let go"
on me.
  I -rarely- use it for window glazing.  If the KK is 'thick' the
window has a certain "coke bottle glass" appearance.  If
the sides/edges of the window are thick (think Athearn
caboose for an example) the thick lens appearance is
unavoidable - if the edges are thin (think brass) then
it can be almost discernible from more traditional
forms of glazing.
  I often/almost always use it when attaching something to
a surface that is painted (it dries clear).
  It does take a long time to dry/set up.  The thicker it is the
longer that takes.  It will skin over in a short amount of
time (an hour or two).  The rest of the drying occurs thru
the evaporation thru the skin (which remains "flexible").
  It will not "pick up moisture from the air and let go".  At
least not enough to matter.
  It forms a "fillet" (note spelling) when used where two
parts are joined at 90 degree angles.  And adds considerable
strength in these applications (think cab shades).  Keeping
the part correctly aligned/oriented - while the KK dries -
can be a challenge.
  It 'shrinks' as it dries and will rarely form a thick layer
between the two parts.
  If you soak the joint in water for 30 minutes or so - you
can cause it to let go and you will be able to rework the
joint.   By soak I am including just laying the model on
its side and putting a drop or two of water on it with an
eye dropper.
  KK does not "craze" painted surfaces like CA/ACC.
  KK is paintable and does not form hard/'shiny' surfaces
that paint/stains show when you apply them over it on
something like a wood trestle.

  Places where I use KK that you may not have thought
about are:

  To attach/reattach a brass part to a painted brass model -
such as a small detail part with a brass 'nipple' that goes
thru a hole in the frame/shell.
  To hold wiring in place so it doesn't "get into the drive"
This can be difficult unless you can figure out how to
hold the wires in place while the KK dries.  What I do is to
grab the wires with a strategically placed set of cross
lock tweezers.  (I often use other products for this one.)
  Installing 0402 LEDs inside a headlight, class light, or
markers.  The KK holds them in place - and forms a
lens for the light to shine thru.  I often/usually paint
the inside of the detail part with "Old Silver" or other
such color.
  Installing LEDs inside a Tomar car drum head.
  Installing parts that have a mechanical advantage
where the KK only holds them in place - such as a
small piece of brass 'bracing' that keeps the gear
box in a brass loco from rotating (I file a notch for
the strength and just use the KK to hold it there).
  Attaching glazing (actual glass or clear plastic
sheet)to the inside of passenger cars and/or
cabeese.
  Building wood structures.
  I -rarely- complete a model I'm working on without
using KK somewhere or other.

  I'm "just an old guy who plays with trains" (ask my wife) ...
so the fact that KK takes more time to dry/set is of less
importance to me.
  If Microscale ever stops selling it - I'll just switch to
canopy glue.
- Jim B.


Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

"Canopy Glue" is just a white glue that dries clear. 


    Tim, this is just silly. It's like saying, "CA is just a clear glue that's strong." I experimented with different white glues, including the ones sold in craft stores called "tacky glue." My conclusion is that canopy glue is stronger than those tacky glues, though it shares the tacky, quick-holding quality. And canopy glue is considerably stronger then regular dimestore white glue. And BTW, it is especially good for dissimilar materials (plastic to wood, metal to plastic, etc,).
     As has already been pointed out, I wrote a blog post years ago about canopy glue:


As the radio commercial used to say, "Accept no substitutes."

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Tim O'Connor
 

Andy

I've never heard of this before... sounds like something my dentist would use!

Tell us more. :-)

Schuyler

As you know, I have been experimenting with UV sensitive glue for a few
weeks now and it has been fantastic in most applications. While I haven't
tried it for running boards, it seems that it would be ideal. It is clear
and viscous, so unlike ACC it won't be sucked up into all the little spaces.
You could put a small amount on the supports and the position the running
board. It will stay tacky forever until you shine the UV light on it. Then
it "freezes" in 3 second and forms an incredibly strong bond.

Andy Miller


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Barge Cement, or other contact cement. Dirt simple, tough, resilient, flexible, high tensile strength, and only tiny microdrops are more than sufficient

Run, don’t walk.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote:

 

Microscale Krystal Klear is identical to canopy glue.  A form of
white glue that dries clear.  


   I disagree. I tried joints of a couple of materials with both KK and canopy glue. The canopy glue was significantly stronger.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history