Gould/Tichy 40' flat


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

    I know that the/some of the correct lettering is NC&StL (champ HC-646).  I have one of my flats lettered but it's at the other house.  I found a unlettered (but painted) flat and the champ decals.  So now the question.  What other lettering would be correct and at least close.  I'm trying to do a flat with a lumber load but need to decal it first.  Got some "TrainLife" lumber loads and they seem to be nice but do require some time.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  I have used these flats several times in MOW service (as an idler flat 
or crane tender, etc.).
  They are a nice model - that requires some extra weight to track well 
(not uncommon for flat car models).  I typically add weight to them 
using either lead shot between the frame members or lead sheet in 
the spaces of the underside (and once or twice both).
  Decal for your road and era of choice, add a brake wheel, wire 
grabs and steps, and air hoses ... and then weathering the deck and 
details ... and you have a very nice looking model that can be used 
for a lot of different "stand ins" ... ;-)
  Yes, I also use RR specific/"correct" flat car models.
                                                                                                - Jim B.


Paul Doggett <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

SP&S, T&P, DL&W CN, CP and StLSW all had very similar cars.

Paul Doggett UK


On 29 Dec 2017, at 17:58, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

    I know that the/some of the correct lettering is NC&StL (champ HC-646).  I have one of my flats lettered but it's at the other house.  I found a unlettered (but painted) flat and the champ decals.  So now the question.  What other lettering would be correct and at least close.  I'm trying to do a flat with a lumber load but need to decal it first.  Got some "TrainLife" lumber loads and they seem to be nice but do require some time.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems,
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Tim O'Connor
 


And if I recall correctly, the CHAMP HC-646 set has lettering for most
of them, if not all of them.

I lettered mine T&P 5000-5299 (42') 285 cars in 1950.

Also SSW 81000-81547 (41'11") 151 cars in 1950.

Not sure which CP series, but CP had 466 41'5" flats in series 306500-307099
and 714 41'8" flats in series 307500-308699 in 1950.

Owl Mountain, Trainworx and Exactrail also make modular lumber loads now.

Tim O'Connor

=======================

 SP&S, T&P, DL&W, CN, CP and StLSW all had very similar cars.
 Paul Doggett UK


Benjamin Hom
 


Jon Miller asked:
"I know that the/some of the correct lettering is NC&StL (champ HC-646).  I have one of my flats lettered but it's at the other house.  I found a unlettered (but painted) flat and the champ decals.  So now the question.  What other lettering would be correct and at least close.  I'm trying to do a flat with a lumber load but need to decal it first.  Got some "TrainLife" lumber loads and they seem to be nice but do require some time."

Richard Hendrickson's article in the June 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal (page 5), including a photo of a Cotton Belt car with a lumber load:


Ben Hom



Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

Thanks to all and Ben.  I have that RMJ somewhere but going to the site is easier.  Will do the SP&S as that saves the other set of decals intact.  The lumber load picture is a little late for me as I will do mostly/all wood and not banding.  Also when it was built I didn't have scale couplers or .088 wheelsets
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Tim O'Connor
 


Although the SSW 81000 series cars were originally built 1912=1914, they all
received new underframes 1937=1939. Which explains why a "55 year old" flat car
would still be in revenue service in 1969, as shown in that magazine photo.

Richard Hendrickson modeled that car (in the magazine), SSW 81541, as the second
"pivot" car in a pair of flats with an extremely long pipe load.

I have a 1930 image of one of the SSW 81000 series cars with two Cotton Belt
trailers - a very early example of piggyback!

Tim O'Connor


 Richard Hendrickson's article in the June 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal (page 5),
 including a photo of a Cotton Belt car with a lumber load:
  http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1993_6/
 Ben Hom


Jon Miller asked:
"I know that the/some of the correct lettering is NC&StL (champ HC-646).  I have one of my flats lettered but it's at the other house.  I found a unlettered (but painted) flat and the champ decals.  So now the question.  What other lettering would be correct and at least close.  I'm trying to do a flat with a lumber load but need to decal it first.  Got some "TrainLife" lumber loads and they seem to be nice but do require some time."


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Ted Culotta's Prototype Modelers Voume Four has an excelent article on his treatment of this car.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 12/29/17 11:49 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Gould/Tichy 40' flat

 


Although the SSW 81000 series cars were originally built 1912=1914, they all
received new underframes 1937=1939. Which explains why a "55 year old" flat car
would still be in revenue service in 1969, as shown in that magazine photo.

Richard Hendrickson modeled that car (in the magazine), SSW 81541, as the second
"pivot" car in a pair of flats with an extremely long pipe load.

I have a 1930 image of one of the SSW 81000 series cars with two Cotton Belt
trailers - a very early example of piggyback!

Tim O'Connor


 Richard Hendrickson's article in the June 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal (page 5),
 including a photo of a Cotton Belt car with a lumber load:
  http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1993_6/
 Ben Hom


Jon Miller asked:
"I know that the/some of the correct lettering is NC&StL (champ HC-646).  I have one of my flats lettered but it's at the other house.  I found a unlettered (but painted) flat and the champ decals.  So now the question.  What other lettering would be correct and at least close.  I'm trying to do a flat with a lumber load but need to decal it first.  Got some "TrainLife" lumber loads and they seem to be nice but do require some time."


David Turner
 

Jon,

These cars on the SP&S were numbered 32005-32054, painted black with white lettering.

Best regards,

David Turner

Keeping the S. P. & S. Ry. alive in  Santa Rosa, California



 Re: Gould/Tichy 40' flat
    Posted by: "Jon Miller" atsfus@... atsfus
    Date: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:46 pm ((PST))

Thanks to all and Ben.  I have that RMJ somewhere but going to the site 
is easier.  Will do the SP&S as that saves the other set of decals 
intact.  The lumber load picture is a little late for me as I will do 
mostly/all wood and not banding.  Also when it was built I didn't have 
scale couplers or .088 wheelsets


Eric Hansmann
 

I compiled prototype data for these models a couple of years ago. The info is pasted below along with an updated link to the Train Life site for the RMJ magazine access.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

Tichy Flat Car prototypes

Here are some prototype notes for the Tichy Flat car model. This info was distilled form Richard Hendrickson's article in the June 1993 Railmodel Journal. The article begins on page 5.

http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1993_6/

 

NC&StL 70100-70199 - 100 cars

Built 1923 with KD brake system

Mineral Red paint

ARA cast steel side frame trucks

 

NC&StL 70200-70299 - 100 cars

Built 1926 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

Dalman Two-Level trucks

 

SP&S 32005-32054 - 50 cars

Built 1924 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

USRA Andrews trucks

 

DL&W 16350-16399 - 50 cars

Built 1926 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

USRA Andrews trucks

 

T&P 5000-5299 - 300 cars

Built 1928 with KD brake system

Mineral Red paint, black paint for underframe

ARA cast steel side frame trucks

 

Canadian National 651460-623768 - 2300 cars

Built 1912 with KC brake system

Black paint

Arch Bar trucks

 

Canadian Pacific 306500-307499 - 1000 cars

Built 1912 with KC brake system

Black paint

Arch Bar trucks

 

St-SW (Cotton Belt) 81000-81547 - 548 cars

Built 1914 with KC brake system

Black paint

Arch Bar trucks

 

 

And these are close....

A few New York Central Lines had very similar flat cars with fishbelly center sills and straight side sills. Lot 208-F includes these 40-ton capacity cars built in 1907.

 

CCC&StL 50000- 50249 - 250 cars

CI&S 74557-74856 - 300 cars

MCRR 33000-33499 - 500 cars

NYC&HR 32500-33499 - 1000 cars

 

Builder images of cars lettered for all four Lines are among the Westerfield AC&F Collection.

All NYCL cars were built with KC brake systems, eleven stake pockets, and end sill mounted vertical hand brake staffs that swing down if needed for clearances. The Tichy model has twelve side stake pockets and an end sill mounted vertical hand brake staff that does not swing away for clearance.

I don't think decals have been produced for these NYC flat cars in as-built or later versions.

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 10:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gould/Tichy 40' flat

 




Jon,

These cars on the SP&S were numbered 32005-32054, painted black with white lettering.

Best regards,

David Turner

Keeping the S. P. & S. Ry. alive in  Santa Rosa, California

 


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 12/30/2017 7:42 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] wrote:

SP&S 32005-32054 - 50 cars

Built 1924 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

USRA Andrews trucks

    I'm getting confused real quick on color.  David Turner just said these were black.  

    Also on the one I finished some time ago was also black (NC&StL 70200-70299).

??????????????????????????? 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Eric,



Just to expand on this listing. . .



DL&W 16350-16399 - 50 cars

Built 1926 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

USRA Andrews trucks



Were home-built by the DL&W at Keyser Valley Shops
in February 1926. Pretty much the DL&Ws entire
flat car fleet until piggyback came into
existence. Many were converted into piggyback
flats.



43 of these were still in service in April 1950.
I assume by then they'd been converted to AB
brakes.



Does the Tichy flat kit come with KC or AB brakes
(or both)?



Schuyler



From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Gould/Tichy 40' flat





I compiled prototype data for these models a
couple of years ago. The info is pasted below
along with an updated link to the Train Life site
for the RMJ magazine access.





Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN









Tichy Flat Car prototypes

Here are some prototype notes for the Tichy Flat
car model. This info was distilled form Richard
Hendrickson's article in the June 1993 Railmodel
Journal. The article begins on page 5.

<http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1993_6/>
http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1993_6/



NC&StL 70100-70199 - 100 cars

Built 1923 with KD brake system

Mineral Red paint

ARA cast steel side frame trucks



NC&StL 70200-70299 - 100 cars

Built 1926 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

Dalman Two-Level trucks



SP&S 32005-32054 - 50 cars

Built 1924 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

USRA Andrews trucks



DL&W 16350-16399 - 50 cars

Built 1926 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

USRA Andrews trucks



T&P 5000-5299 - 300 cars

Built 1928 with KD brake system

Mineral Red paint, black paint for underframe

ARA cast steel side frame trucks



Canadian National 651460-623768 - 2300 cars

Built 1912 with KC brake system

Black paint

Arch Bar trucks



Canadian Pacific 306500-307499 - 1000 cars

Built 1912 with KC brake system

Black paint

Arch Bar trucks



St-SW (Cotton Belt) 81000-81547 - 548 cars

Built 1914 with KC brake system

Black paint

Arch Bar trucks





And these are close....

A few New York Central Lines had very similar flat
cars with fishbelly center sills and straight side
sills. Lot 208-F includes these 40-ton capacity
cars built in 1907.



CCC&StL 50000- 50249 - 250 cars

CI&S 74557-74856 - 300 cars

MCRR 33000-33499 - 500 cars

NYC&HR 32500-33499 - 1000 cars



Builder images of cars lettered for all four Lines
are among the Westerfield AC&F Collection.

All NYCL cars were built with KC brake systems,
eleven stake pockets, and end sill mounted
vertical hand brake staffs that swing down if
needed for clearances. The Tichy model has twelve
side stake pockets and an end sill mounted
vertical hand brake staff that does not swing away
for clearance.

I don't think decals have been produced for these
NYC flat cars in as-built or later versions.







_____

From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 10:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gould/Tichy 40' flat









Jon,

These cars on the SP&S were numbered 32005-32054,
painted black with white lettering.

Best regards,

David Turner

Keeping the S. P. & S. Ry. alive in Santa Rosa,
California


David
 

Another group for the list is N&W class FE 32250-32499, built at Roanoke in 1926.

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19415

David Thompson


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 12/30/2017 9:01 AM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:
Does the Tichy flat kit come with KC or AB brakes

    Mine are both built and I don't have a kit handy but they are KC.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Bill Welch
 

All NC&StL rolling stock was BCR.

Bill Welch


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 12/30/2017 9:16 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:

All NC&StL rolling stock was BCR.

Bill, I just getting to old, BCR=?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Paul Doggett <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

BCR = Boxcar Red 😎😎😎

Paul Doggett 🇬🇧 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, December 30, 2017, 5:35 pm, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

On 12/30/2017 9:16 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:

All NC&StL rolling stock was BCR.

Bill, I just getting to old, BCR=?

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems,
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 12/30/2017 9:37 AM, Paul Doggett paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC] wrote:

BCR = Boxcar Red

    Oh well, mine was painted long ago and unfortunately it's black (I'm going to call it extremely weathered:-D).  Champ notes say black or red.

    So now to SP&S, black or red as I don't have the decals on yet!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Tim O'Connor
 

Schuyler

I have a beautiful 1950's digital image of DL&W 16005 in TOFC service with
a DL&W Aerovan trailer. The car has a 1954 shop date. My notation says it's
from the Richard Barnes collection. Lee Turner scratchbuilt a gorgeous P:48
model of DL&W 16016 with a trailer load.

Tim O'Connor




Just to expand on this listing. . .

DL&W 16350-16399 - 50 cars

Built 1926 with KC brake system

Mineral Red paint

USRA Andrews trucks

Were home-built by the DL&W at Keyser Valley Shops
in February 1926.  Pretty much the DL&Ws entire
flat car fleet until piggyback came into
existence.  Many were converted into piggyback
flats.

43 of these were still in service in April 1950.
I assume by then they'd been converted to AB
brakes.

Does the Tichy flat kit come with KC or AB brakes
(or both)?

Schuyler


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

OK!  Can wwe please arrive at a definitive answer on the SP&S cars?  Black or red?  Mine was done in red years ago and I have been considering changing it to NC&SL.

Bill Pardie

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 12/30/17 7:45 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Gould/Tichy 40' flat

 

On 12/30/2017 9:37 AM, Paul Doggett paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC] wrote:

BCR = Boxcar Red

    Oh well, mine was painted long ago and unfortunately it's black (I'm going to call it extremely weathered:-D).  Champ notes say black or red.

    So now to SP&S, black or red as I don't have the decals on yet!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS