Tru-color paint
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Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
Not having quick access to thinner is acetone* an acceptable thinner? For the paint cup only or to be added to the jar?
* or would MEK be better? -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, SPROG, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Scott
On the label of thier thinner the only ingredient they list is acetone. I wouldnt mix it in the paint bottle for sure paint cup only.
Scott McDonald
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For CLEANING the airbrush, yes. On a model? You are taking a risk! Normal concentration of acetone is about 1/3, and the normal concentration of MEK is a little more than 1/3. But there are two other solvents as well. YMMV. Tim O'Connor
Not having quick access to thinner is acetone* an acceptable thinner? For the paint cup only or to be added to the jar?
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Nelson Moyer
I called Tru Color to ask the same question and was told that acetone was a relatively minor ingredient in the thinner and there are several others ingredients. They don’t recommend thinning paint with Acetone, but Acetone is fine for cleanup. Of course, they sell a pint of thinner for $43.95, so why wouldn’t they say that. Apparently, thinning with acetone alone changes the handling and drying characteristics of the paint, particularly the shiny finish.
Jon, your question raised other questions. Why do you want to thin the paint? Tru Color claims it’s ready to spray without thinning, and I’ve painted ten cars so far shooting straight paint at 20 psi with a gravity feed airbrush. I think thinning would require more coats than straight paint. I’m curious, how many modelers thin vs. not thin, and how many coats do you average for thinned vs not thinned?
One problem I’ve noticed with Tru Color is that the bottle caps aren’t always tight on the shelves, and I’ve had evaporative losses up to 3-4 ml. per bottle before I caught it. I don’t know if the caps weren’t tightened properly at the plant, or the worked loose due to temperature changes, but I suspect I’ve had some of both. I brought up the new bottles to full volume with Tru Color thinner, then really tightened the caps hard. So far, I haven’t had additional evaporative loss. Now I always check the volume, add thinner if necessary, and tighten the cap on all new bottles.
Nelson Moyer
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Not having quick access to thinner is acetone* an acceptable thinner? For the paint cup only or to be added to the jar?
* or would MEK be better? -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, SPROG, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 1/18/2018 11:48 AM, Nelson Moyer
npmoyer@... [STMFC] wrote:
Why do you want to thin the paint? I'm not getting a fine mist out of the jar.
I think the solvent has evaporated out of the sealed jar. As
I'm used to either Floquil or Scalecoat probably adjusting
badly. -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, SPROG, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Allen Montgomery <sandbear75@...>
I spent yesterday wailing and gnashing my teeth trying to get Tru Color to behave properly. Fail. I don't want to sound like a Negative Nellie, but I'm tired of fighting a losing battle. That being said, let me share some thoughts. Xylene works as a thinner. I had hit and miss results with Acetone. It seems the moon has something to do with how the paint goes through an airbrush. Sometimes it spits and comes out in little chunks. I don't know why this happens, even with their thinner. But to get it to flow right, I've found that I have to thin it so much that it takes the whole bottle to get half way coverage on a project. Total waste of money and time. Thank goodness the air is free. Sometimes the sheen is shiny, sometimes it's acceptable. Maddening. Yesterday, I was working on an S-scale wooden depot for a friend. I sealed the walls so that it wouldn't take multiple bottles just to get a decent coat of paint. The thing looked more like stucco after trying Tru Color Buff. No matter what the p.s.i. was set at, I couldn't get good results. Since the company is in my state, I'm going to go down there and sit in the lobby until they show me their paint works. I picked up some Scalecoat II at Caboose Hobbies last summer. Wasn't thrilled with the results of that either. "Floquil, why have you forsaken me?!?!" Sincerly, Frustrated Painter
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Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 1/18/2018 12:11 PM, Allen
Montgomery sandbear75@... [STMFC] wrote:
I picked up some Scalecoat II at Caboose Hobbies last summer. Did a little Googling and it seem Scalecoat
was sold to another company. I can't determine if Scalecoat I
is available or not. I do have some left and will use that
until I run out. -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, SPROG, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Pierre Oliver
Minuteman Scale Models, http://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/ Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.com On 2018-01-18 3:18 PM, Jon Miller
atsfus@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Nelson Moyer
You might have to turn up the air pressure. I gave the air pressure if 20 psi under paint load. The compressor is set to about 28 psi under no load. A new bottle is filled to the top of the curve at the top of the bottle. If you see less total volume, you have evaporative loss.
Nelson Moyer
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
On 1/18/2018 11:48 AM, Nelson Moyer
npmoyer@... [STMFC] wrote:
I'm not getting a fine mist out of the jar. I think the solvent has evaporated out of the sealed jar. As I'm used to either Floquil or Scalecoat probably adjusting badly. -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, SPROG, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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TruColor, like Accupaint, comes in plastic bottles that are not 100% airtight. It evaporates. The good news is that adding back the thinner and a couple of drops of the retarder will restore the paint back to new condition. If you open a new bottle and there's less than an ounce, you'll need to restore it to an ounce. The concentration of solvents vs pigments DEFINITELY affects the quality of the finish! The paint is also very sensitive to humidity. Water will adsorb onto the model surface and create a gritty, non-glossy result. This effect is worsened if the paint is not properly thinned. Tim O'Connor
Why do you want to thin the paint?
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Nelson Moyer
I’ve never had “chunks” out of the airbrush with Tru Color. I mix thoroughly, but I haven’t needed to filter yet, but all my painting so far has started with a new bottle. Tru Color doesn’t like humidity. I paint only when the relative humidity is below 60%. The paint has to go on very slightly wet at the center of the spray pattern, and you have to overlap the wet part with subsequent passes. Light passes are best, and let it dry between coats. Spraying too thick and too close will cause it to run, as with any paint. Tru Color takes some getting used to! Adherence is a problem unless you prime before painting.
My only problem has been random lint on the painted surface. I think I’ve traced it to my sweatshirt. From now on, I’ll paint in a short sleeve shirt that has a hard finish.
Nelson Moyer
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
I spent yesterday wailing and gnashing my teeth trying to get Tru Color to behave properly. Fail. I don't want to sound like a Negative Nellie, but I'm tired of fighting a losing battle. That being said, let me share some thoughts. Xylene works as a thinner. I had hit and miss results with Acetone. It seems the moon has something to do with how the paint goes through an airbrush. Sometimes it spits and comes out in little chunks. I don't know why this happens, even with their thinner. But to get it to flow right, I've found that I have to thin it so much that it takes the whole bottle to get half way coverage on a project. Total waste of money and time. Thank goodness the air is free. Sometimes the sheen is shiny, sometimes it's acceptable. Maddening. Yesterday, I was working on an S-scale wooden depot for a friend. I sealed the walls so that it wouldn't take multiple bottles just to get a decent coat of paint. The thing looked more like stucco after trying Tru Color Buff. No matter what the p.s.i. was set at, I couldn't get good results. Since the company is in my state, I'm going to go down there and sit in the lobby until they show me their paint works. I picked up some Scalecoat II at Caboose Hobbies last summer. Wasn't thrilled with the results of that either. "Floquil, why have you forsaken me?!?!" Sincerly, Frustrated Painter
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Lee Thwaits
In using other than Trucolor thinner I have not gotten good adherence. I asked Trucolor about this and was told their thinner was a mix compatible with their paint (which is not actually a paint(?)) and not an off the shelf product.
Lee Thwaits
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What are you painting? TruColor/Accupaint/Star paints (same formulation) will adhere beautifully to clean polystyrene. If you're painting brass, metal, or polyurethane resin, you'll need to prime first to get a really good bond. Tim O'Connor
In using other than Trucolor thinner I have not gotten good adherence.�
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Scott
It has been my experience as well that TruColor needs to be REALLY thin for it to spray. I use vallejo primer as I think it lays out smooth as can be. The down side to vallejo is it is not in the least bit sand-able. I have not had problems with it sticking to the primer. I am using an Iwata HP-CH so I dont think its that.
Scott McDonald
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riverman_vt@...
---In STMFC@..., <sandbear75@...> wrote : I spent yesterday wailing and gnashing my teeth trying to get Tru Color to behave properly. Fail. I don't want to sound like a Negative Nellie, but I'm tired of fighting a losing battle. That being said, let me share some thoughts. Xylene works as a thinner. I had hit and miss results with Acetone. It seems the moon has something to do with how the paint goes through an airbrush. Sometimes it spits and comes out in little chunks. I don't know why this happens, even with their thinner. But to get it to flow right, I've found that I have to thin it so much that it takes the whole bottle to get half way coverage on a project. Total waste of money and time. Thank goodness the air is free. Sometimes the sheen is shiny, sometimes it's acceptable. Maddening. Yesterday, I was working on an S-scale wooden depot for a friend. I sealed the walls so that it wouldn't take multiple bottles just to get a decent coat of paint. The thing looked more like stucco after trying Tru Color Buff. No matter what the p.s.i. was set at, I couldn't get good results. Since the company is in my state, I'm going to go down there and sit in the lobby until they show me their paint works. I picked up some Scalecoat II at Caboose Hobbies last summer. Wasn't thrilled with the results of that either. "Floquil, why have you forsaken me?!?!" Sincerly, Frustrated Painter I have been using Xylene to thin Tru Color evfer since it came out just as I used of for Accu-Paint, both coming from the same original supplier. I've also used Scalecoat for fifty years last year and was happy as heck to see Floquil go out of business as I was tired of detail hiding primers and paper towel, or "stucco" as you called it, finishes. With either Tru-Color or Scalecoat I would recommend 25 lbs. of air pressure and then try adjusting the amount of paint you are spraying through the nozzle. If you are still not happy tyr going up to 30 psi and adjusting spray again. I also wonder if you might have a humidity problem but you ave not indicated anything that would lead on to suspect that. Good luck, Don Valentine
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riverman_vt@...
---In STMFC@..., <sandbear75@...> wrote : I spent yesterday wailing and gnashing my teeth trying to get Tru Color to behave properly. Fail. I don't want to sound like a Negative Nellie, but I'm tired of fighting a losing battle. That being said, let me share some thoughts. Xylene works as a thinner. I had hit and miss results with Acetone. It seems the moon has something to do with how the paint goes through an airbrush. Sometimes it spits and comes out in little chunks. I don't know why this happens, even with their thinner. But to get it to flow right, I've found that I have to thin it so much that it takes the whole bottle to get half way coverage on a project. Total waste of money and time. Thank goodness the air is free. Sometimes the sheen is shiny, sometimes it's acceptable. Maddening. Yesterday, I was working on an S-scale wooden depot for a friend. I sealed the walls so that it wouldn't take multiple bottles just to get a decent coat of paint. The thing looked more like stucco after trying Tru Color Buff. No matter what the p.s.i. was set at, I couldn't get good results. Since the company is in my state, I'm going to go down there and sit in the lobby until they show me their paint works. I picked up some Scalecoat II at Caboose Hobbies last summer. Wasn't thrilled with the results of that either. "Floquil, why have you forsaken me?!?!" Sincerly, Frustrated Painter I have been using Xylene to thin Tru Color evfer since it came out just as I used of for Accu-Paint, both coming from the same original supplier. I've also used Scalecoat for fifty years last year and was happy as heck to see Floquil go out of business as I was tired of detail hiding primers and paper towel, or "stucco" as you called it, finishes. With either Tru-Color or Scalecoat I would recommend 25 lbs. of air pressure and then try adjusting the amount of paint you are spraying through the nozzle. If you are still not happy tyr going up to 30 psi and adjusting spray again. I also wonder if you might have a humidity problem but you ave not indicated anything that would lead on to suspect that. Good luck, Don Valentine
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Bill Vaughn
What do you use as a primer, I have had no luck. Bill Vaughn On Thursday, January 18, 2018 1:50 PM, "Nelson Moyer npmoyer@... [STMFC]" wrote: I’ve never had “chunks” out of the airbrush with Tru Color. I mix thoroughly, but I haven’t needed to filter yet, but all my painting so far has started with
a new bottle. Tru Color doesn’t like humidity. I paint only when the relative humidity is below 60%. The paint has to go on very slightly wet at the center of the spray pattern, and you have to overlap the wet part with subsequent passes. Light passes are
best, and let it dry between coats. Spraying too thick and too close will cause it to run, as with any paint. Tru Color takes some getting used to! Adherence is a problem unless you prime before painting.
My only problem has been random lint on the painted surface. I think I’ve traced it to my sweatshirt. From now on, I’ll paint in a short sleeve shirt that has
a hard finish.
Nelson Moyer
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 2:11 PM To: stmfc@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint I spent yesterday wailing and gnashing my teeth trying to get Tru Color to behave properly. Fail. I don't want to sound like a Negative Nellie, but I'm tired of fighting
a losing battle. That being said, let me share some thoughts.
Xylene works as a thinner. I had hit and miss results with Acetone.
It seems the moon has something to do with how the paint goes through an airbrush. Sometimes it spits and comes out in little chunks. I don't know why this happens, even
with their thinner. But to get it to flow right, I've found that I have to thin it so much that it takes the whole bottle to get half way coverage on a project. Total waste of money and time. Thank goodness the air is free.
Sometimes the sheen is shiny, sometimes it's acceptable. Maddening.
Yesterday, I was working on an S-scale wooden depot for a friend. I sealed the walls so that it wouldn't take multiple bottles just to get a decent coat of paint. The thing
looked more like stucco after trying Tru Color Buff. No matter what the p.s.i. was set at, I couldn't get good results. Since the company is in my state, I'm going to go down there and sit in the lobby until they show me their paint works.
I picked up some Scalecoat II at Caboose Hobbies last summer. Wasn't thrilled with the results of that either.
"Floquil, why have you forsaken me?!?!"
Sincerly,
Frustrated Painter
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Nelson,
My local hobby shop owner told me he was given a bottle of thinner by the Tru Color people to top off bottles where evaporation happened, so it's a known problem. When I'm paying $5 for a small jar of paint, I shouldn't have to top off with a thinner that costs me as well! I have been transferring the paint to glass jars with metal lids and haven't lost any volume. However, if they want me to keep buying it, they better fix that problem at the source, pronto. Dave Thursday, January 18, 2018, 2:48:19 PM, you wrote:
-- David Bott Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
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Nelson Moyer
I’ve been using Tamiya Fine Light Gray Primer.
Nelson Moyer
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
What do you use as a primer, I have had no luck.
Bill Vaughn
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Steven Nelson <snelson33@...>
It could be
a problem not associated with the paint (incorrect nozzle size, bent needle,
spray distance and/or air pressure).
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