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Paint color for inside model stock cars

spsalso
 

I've got some (brass, in this case) stock cars that need painting.  I've never painted a stock car before.  My plan is to spray the inside, fill it full of "stuff", and spray the outside.  Of course, the outside color is easy.  But I am wondering what to do with the inside.

So I thought I'd ask here:  What color do you folks paint the inside of your stock cars?

Thanks,

Ed

Edward Sutorik
Nelson Moyer
 

I understand prototype stock car interiors weren’t painted, however, I painted the inside of my stock cars the same color as the outside so the light gray resin wouldn’t show under low angle lighting.  Under normal operating conditions, the inside of the model cars is dark enough that the slat color isn’t visible. I bought a set of Sunshine profile cattle years ago, but I haven’t painted or installed them yet. With 26 stock cars, it doesn’t make much sense to have only one with a cattle load.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of spsalso via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2018 8:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

I've got some (brass, in this case) stock cars that need painting.  I've never painted a stock car before.  My plan is to spray the inside, fill it full of "stuff", and spray the outside.  Of course, the outside color is easy.  But I am wondering what to do with the inside.

So I thought I'd ask here:  What color do you folks paint the inside of your stock cars?

Thanks,

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Armand Premo
 

Stock cars were generally white washed.

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:32 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I understand prototype stock car interiors weren’t painted, however, I painted the inside of my stock cars the same color as the outside so the light gray resin wouldn’t show under low angle lighting.  Under normal operating conditions, the inside of the model cars is dark enough that the slat color isn’t visible. I bought a set of Sunshine profile cattle years ago, but I haven’t painted or installed them yet. With 26 stock cars, it doesn’t make much sense to have only one with a cattle load.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@....io] On Behalf Of spsalso via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2018 8:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

I've got some (brass, in this case) stock cars that need painting.  I've never painted a stock car before.  My plan is to spray the inside, fill it full of "stuff", and spray the outside.  Of course, the outside color is easy.  But I am wondering what to do with the inside.

So I thought I'd ask here:  What color do you folks paint the inside of your stock cars?

Thanks,

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Tony Thompson
 

Look at photos. This is rarely evident. Most cars were steam cleaned.
Tony Thompson 


On May 5, 2018, at 7:13 PM, Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...> wrote:

Stock cars were generally white washed.

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:32 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I understand prototype stock car interiors weren’t painted, however, I painted the inside of my stock cars the same color as the outside so the light gray resin wouldn’t show under low angle lighting.  Under normal operating conditions, the inside of the model cars is dark enough that the slat color isn’t visible. I bought a set of Sunshine profile cattle years ago, but I haven’t painted or installed them yet. With 26 stock cars, it doesn’t make much sense to have only one with a cattle load.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@....io] On Behalf Of spsalso via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2018 8:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

I've got some (brass, in this case) stock cars that need painting.  I've never painted a stock car before.  My plan is to spray the inside, fill it full of "stuff", and spray the outside.  Of course, the outside color is easy.  But I am wondering what to do with the inside.

So I thought I'd ask here:  What color do you folks paint the inside of your stock cars?

Thanks,

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Bob Chaparro
 

I took this picture last year during the  Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society convention in Tulsa. This is the ONLY stock car interior I have ever seen (unless I was a bull in a previous life) and it appears to never have been painted.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Nelson Moyer
 

The oxide color suggests that it was painted when new, but never repainted. The paint loss over time is apparently from repeated steam cleaning until the majority of the slats are bare weathered wood. Notice the roof boards retained more oxide color than the lower slats, and the upper slats retained more oxide color than the lower slats. Thanks for posting this photo as it is a rare look inside a place no animal wanted to go.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2018 10:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

I took this picture last year during the  Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society convention in Tulsa. This is the ONLY stock car interior I have ever seen (unless I was a bull in a previous life) and it appears to never have been painted.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
mbcarson2002
 

FWIW, I am led to believe the stock cars were disinfected with lime between runs and so typical stock cars typically had white residue inside that sometimes bled outside.

MBC

Michael Carson
Tony Thompson
 

Steve Sandifer can say more, but my understanding is that lime was a stopgap. Steam was more effective and essentially standard.
Tony Thompson 


On May 5, 2018, at 8:18 PM, mbcarson2002 <mbcarson@...> wrote:

FWIW, I am led to believe the stock cars were disinfected with lime between runs and so typical stock cars typically had white residue inside that sometimes bled outside.

MBC

Michael Carson

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

I suspect that everyone who has responded to this question is correct in their own way. I believe that most, if not all, stock cars found their interiors painted in the same color as their outsides when new.
Then they were probably whitewashed on roughly the bottom 4 ft. of their insides when put into service.
If the cars were emptied for rest in route and the interior was not too bad or there wasn't sufficient time lime might have been used just to freshen it up. The normal steam cleaning would remove everything, including the original paint before too many months of use, after which the use of whitewash and additional steam cleanings further cleaned any remaining paint from their interiors. Even the interior shown shows the residue from the whitewash, not paint, on the slats from about mid height down. The lower you look the more that remains. Dairy barns, at least in Vermont when I was a youngster, had to be whitewashed once per year IIRC. I wonder how often it was done in the interior of stock cars?

Cordially, Don Valentine

Virus-free. www.avast.com

John Riddell
 

The Canadian government regulations in 1927 specified  --

 

“Stock cars or other vehicles used for the conveyance of live stock shall be cleansed and disinfected at such times  and places as the Minister may order.  Such disinfection shall be done by the thorough cleansing of the car and its subsequent white-washing with lime and carbonic acid in the proportion of 1 pound commercial carbolic acid to 5 gallons of lime-wash  or such other process as may be approved by the Veterinary Director General.”

 

John Riddell

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
spsalso
 

Bob,

Thank you for the interior photo.  I think I'll go with "weathered wood" color.  And the floor will probably be "organic matter dark".

I do appreciate all the helpful answers.  But please keep in mind that I wasn't asking what the prototype did or didn't do.  I asked what color the modeler used on the inside.


Ed

Edward Sutorik
Steve SANDIFER
 

Everything depends on your railroad, stock carried, and era. There were periods of time when there were contaminated live stock and quarantine rules. There were diseases for sheep (scabies), cattle (tick fever), hogs, goats, etc, and not all at the same time. There was a procedure for dipping cattle, waiting an interval, and dipping them again in order to get them certified as clean animals. If shipping clean cattle in clean areas, all that the Santa Fe required was shoveling the dirty bedding out and applying clean (sand).  Nothing else, no steam cleaning, no lime, nothing.

 

If shipping contaminated live stock in a stock car, then disinfecting the car after the shipment and proper disposal of dirty bedding was mandated by the government and various state laws. If the stock was unloaded into a pen for feed, water, and rest, that pen and all pens connected to it were considered contaminated and those pens also required disinfecting before any clean animals cold be placed there. At certain periods of time, the railroad maintained two sets of pens at many locations, one for clean animals and one for dirty animals so they did not have to continually disinfect the pens.

 

The US Department of Agriculture, Bureau of Animal Industry, had regulations governing the Interstate Movement of Live Stock, revised at various times. The July 1, 1919 rules are 27 single spaced pages and reads like the legal document it is. The permitted method of disinfecting was:

 

PERMITTED DISINFECTANTS.

 

SECTION 6. Paragraph 1. The substances permitted for use in disinfecting cars, boats, other vehicles, and premises are as follows:

(a) Compound solution of cresol, U. S. P., at a dilution of at least 4 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(b) A permitted "saponified cresol solution" at a dilution of at least 4 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(c) Liquified phenol (liquified carbolic acid) at a dilution of at least 6 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(d) Chlorid of lime (U. S. P. strength, 30 per cent available chlorin) at a dilution of 1 pound to 3 gallons of water.

Paragraph 2. The use of "saponified cresol solution" as a substitute for compound solution of cresol, U. S. P., as a disinfectant is permitted, provided that such" saponified cresol solution" shall conform to the following requirements :

1. The formula of the product shall employ not less than 28 per cent by weight of linseed oil. Either caustic potash, caustic soda, or a mixture of caustic potash and caustic soda may be used to saponify the linseed oil. The cresol used must be at least 95 per cent pure, and enough of this commercial grade of cresol (cresylic acid) must be employed in compounding the disinfectant to bring the actual amount of cresol in the finished product up to 50 per cent.

2. The product net shall remain a homogeneous liquid when cooled to 32° F. It shall contain substantially no unsaponified linseed oil or excess alkali. It shall be readily soluble in cold distilled water. The solution shall be practically clear and shall contain no globules of undissolved oil or cresylic acid.

3. Manufacturers wishing to offer saponified cresol solution as dictated above for use in official disinfection must first submit a sample of at least 8 ounces for examination, together with a statement of the formula employed and a guaranty that the product will be maintained of a quality uniform with the sample submitted.

4. To prevent confusion, each product must bear a distinctive trade name or brand, together with the name of the manufacturer or distributer. There shall be no mention of the United States Department of Agriculture or the Bureau of Animal Industry on the labels, containers, or printed matter accompanying products permitted to be used in official disinfection. The permitted saponified cresol solution hall be used at a dilution of at least 4 ounces of the solution to 1 gallon of water.

 

I have heard from list groups, but not read in any source document, that some meat packing plans steam cleaned stock cars, but again, I have searched and found nothing official to confirm that. Steam cleaning is not an authorized method in the above US Govt. document. It makes more sense that they steam cleaned meet reefers. My interviews with “old heads” who worked with shipping cattle said they only shoveled them out, but those men now in their 80s and 90s did not work on stock trains until the late 50s and 60s after most of the quarantines were no longer in use.  If any of you have any documented proof of the steam cleaning, I would like to have it for a book I am finishing up on this subject.

 

The Santa Fe Mechanical Department published a set of “Rules Governing the Painting, Cleaning, Fumigating and sanitation of Passenger, Work and Freight Equipment Cars an Steam and Diesel Locomotives,” Rev. 1952.  It states that for Santa Fe stock cars everything, inside and out, under and over, received brown mineral No. 903 primer. The wood slats were primed on all surfaces before installation into the car and then after applied were given “2 finishing coats of standard brown mineral paint. “ The exception to the all brown mineral paint was the side door slats on double deck stock cars which were to be given “two coats of refrigerator yellow on all four sides.” Now, the animals inside constantly rubbed those painted surfaces, including with horns. So I imagine the interior paint was rubbed off to a certain level long before the exterior paint would show that same wear. Steam cleaning would be very destructive to that paint as well as getting into the wood and causing the exterior paint to come off as well. From my research the exterior of stock cars tended to weather at about the same pace as wooden outside braced or double sided wooden box cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 10:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

Steve Sandifer can say more, but my understanding is that lime was a stopgap. Steam was more effective and essentially standard.

Tony Thompson 


On May 5, 2018, at 8:18 PM, mbcarson2002 <mbcarson@...> wrote:

FWIW, I am led to believe the stock cars were disinfected with lime between runs and so typical stock cars typically had white residue inside that sometimes bled outside.

MBC

Michael Carson

Douglas Harding
 

Photos I have showing the interior of a stockcar basically show bare unpainted wood. The Interstate Public Service car even shows paint runs from the exterior paint. The NP car shows the lettering board installed on the inside of the car.

 

Yes lime was used for a  disinfectant. And whitewash was also used, but this may be era and railroad specific.

And I have heard that cars were steam cleaned, even read about clean out areas that had steam hoses.

Steam was not used in reefers, made them too hot and took too long to cool down. Reefers were cleaned with hot water.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 
Tony Thompson
 

Steve, Richard Hendrickson was always adamant that Santa Fe stock cars were steam cleaned. What must he have based that on?
Tony Thompson 


On May 6, 2018, at 9:09 PM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

Everything depends on your railroad, stock carried, and era. There were periods of time when there were contaminated live stock and quarantine rules. There were diseases for sheep (scabies), cattle (tick fever), hogs, goats, etc, and not all at the same time. There was a procedure for dipping cattle, waiting an interval, and dipping them again in order to get them certified as clean animals. If shipping clean cattle in clean areas, all that the Santa Fe required was shoveling the dirty bedding out and applying clean (sand).  Nothing else, no steam cleaning, no lime, nothing.

 

If shipping contaminated live stock in a stock car, then disinfecting the car after the shipment and proper disposal of dirty bedding was mandated by the government and various state laws. If the stock was unloaded into a pen for feed, water, and rest, that pen and all pens connected to it were considered contaminated and those pens also required disinfecting before any clean animals cold be placed there. At certain periods of time, the railroad maintained two sets of pens at many locations, one for clean animals and one for dirty animals so they did not have to continually disinfect the pens.

 

The US Department of Agriculture, Bureau of Animal Industry, had regulations governing the Interstate Movement of Live Stock, revised at various times. The July 1, 1919 rules are 27 single spaced pages and reads like the legal document it is. The permitted method of disinfecting was:

 

PERMITTED DISINFECTANTS.

 

SECTION 6. Paragraph 1. The substances permitted for use in disinfecting cars, boats, other vehicles, and premises are as follows:

(a) Compound solution of cresol, U. S. P., at a dilution of at least 4 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(b) A permitted "saponified cresol solution" at a dilution of at least 4 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(c) Liquified phenol (liquified carbolic acid) at a dilution of at least 6 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(d) Chlorid of lime (U. S. P. strength, 30 per cent available chlorin) at a dilution of 1 pound to 3 gallons of water.

Paragraph 2. The use of "saponified cresol solution" as a substitute for compound solution of cresol, U. S. P., as a disinfectant is permitted, provided that such" saponified cresol solution" shall conform to the following requirements :

1. The formula of the product shall employ not less than 28 per cent by weight of linseed oil. Either caustic potash, caustic soda, or a mixture of caustic potash and caustic soda may be used to saponify the linseed oil. The cresol used must be at least 95 per cent pure, and enough of this commercial grade of cresol (cresylic acid) must be employed in compounding the disinfectant to bring the actual amount of cresol in the finished product up to 50 per cent.

2. The product net shall remain a homogeneous liquid when cooled to 32° F. It shall contain substantially no unsaponified linseed oil or excess alkali. It shall be readily soluble in cold distilled water. The solution shall be practically clear and shall contain no globules of undissolved oil or cresylic acid.

3. Manufacturers wishing to offer saponified cresol solution as dictated above for use in official disinfection must first submit a sample of at least 8 ounces for examination, together with a statement of the formula employed and a guaranty that the product will be maintained of a quality uniform with the sample submitted.

4. To prevent confusion, each product must bear a distinctive trade name or brand, together with the name of the manufacturer or distributer. There shall be no mention of the United States Department of Agriculture or the Bureau of Animal Industry on the labels, containers, or printed matter accompanying products permitted to be used in official disinfection. The permitted saponified cresol solution hall be used at a dilution of at least 4 ounces of the solution to 1 gallon of water.

 

I have heard from list groups, but not read in any source document, that some meat packing plans steam cleaned stock cars, but again, I have searched and found nothing official to confirm that. Steam cleaning is not an authorized method in the above US Govt. document. It makes more sense that they steam cleaned meet reefers. My interviews with “old heads” who worked with shipping cattle said they only shoveled them out, but those men now in their 80s and 90s did not work on stock trains until the late 50s and 60s after most of the quarantines were no longer in use.  If any of you have any documented proof of the steam cleaning, I would like to have it for a book I am finishing up on this subject.

 

The Santa Fe Mechanical Department published a set of “Rules Governing the Painting, Cleaning, Fumigating and sanitation of Passenger, Work and Freight Equipment Cars an Steam and Diesel Locomotives,” Rev. 1952.  It states that for Santa Fe stock cars everything, inside and out, under and over, received brown mineral No. 903 primer. The wood slats were primed on all surfaces before installation into the car and then after applied were given “2 finishing coats of standard brown mineral paint. “ The exception to the all brown mineral paint was the side door slats on double deck stock cars which were to be given “two coats of refrigerator yellow on all four sides.” Now, the animals inside constantly rubbed those painted surfaces, including with horns. So I imagine the interior paint was rubbed off to a certain level long before the exterior paint would show that same wear. Steam cleaning would be very destructive to that paint as well as getting into the wood and causing the exterior paint to come off as well. From my research the exterior of stock cars tended to weather at about the same pace as wooden outside braced or double sided wooden box cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 10:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

Steve Sandifer can say more, but my understanding is that lime was a stopgap. Steam was more effective and essentially standard.

Tony Thompson 


On May 5, 2018, at 8:18 PM, mbcarson2002 <mbcarson@...> wrote:

FWIW, I am led to believe the stock cars were disinfected with lime between runs and so typical stock cars typically had white residue inside that sometimes bled outside.

MBC

Michael Carson

Steve SANDIFER
 

I don’t know why Richard thought that. I used to say the same thing, probably after talking to him. Richard was a wealth of information and a gracious mentor to me and others. We roomed together at several Santa Fe conventions and were scheduled to do so when he died. I loved the man and would do nothing to criticize him. I would love to talk to Richard about it.  

 

What I am finding in my research is that there are lots of stories that people will swear by that just don’t add up. For instance people all of the time cite the 24 hour law. It was a 28 hour law. But folks swear it was 24 hours. As I do oral histories, I have to constantly check written histories to see if memories have been blurred by time. Of course that is not to say that the railroad always followed their own rules. Standard plans and some rules were taken as “suggestions.” 

 

Also I would remind you that I am researching the Santa Fe.  Not all railroads did things the same way. Also railroad policies and operations evolved with time and technology. My interior photo of a Santa Fe SK-K shows unpainted wood on the inside. The photos of the SK-N (3-30-43), SK-R (4-1-35), SK-Z (10-1-41) and SK-4 are painted on the interior.

 

Last night I secured a copy of how the Santa Fe cleaned reefers, circa 1952. Santa Fe had no meat reefers, so these were for produce reefers. Reefers were to be swept out, “being sure all cracks are cleaned. If sweeping does not properly clean, due to molasses, paint, etc., such portions of the wall or floor should be scraped. If necessary, follow scraping with a scrub brush and cleaning solution (Item No. 3) with warm water or (Item No. 9) with hot water.”… “Water under pressure may be used in bunkers only, for cleaning purposes.”  “UNDER NO CONDITION SHOULD WATER TO BE ALLOWED TO STAND ON THE INTERIOR OF REFRIGERATOR CARS. NOR SHOULD THEY BE CLEANED WITH RUNNING WATER UNDER PRESSURE.” (Emphasis by the Santa Fe.)

 

Item No. 3 was 2-3 ounces per gallon of water of approved cleaners: Oakite No. 70, C&H No. 50, or Turco No. 1.

Item No. 9 was for cleaning Dining Car kitchen and Baggage Car Floors and Floor Racks and Garbage cans: 2-4 ounces per gallon of hot water: Oakite Penetrant.

 

Again, if someone can provide me with documentation concerning steam cleaning of stock cars I would love to have it. I have travelled from Houston to Chicago to Albuquerque researching in libraries information on Santa Fe livestock operations and long for more information quickly before this book goes to press. And if anyone has a Santa Fe Circular 2240 on Livestock Shipping it appears to be the elusive holy grail.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 11:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

Steve, Richard Hendrickson was always adamant that Santa Fe stock cars were steam cleaned. What must he have based that on?

Tony Thompson 


On May 6, 2018, at 9:09 PM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

Everything depends on your railroad, stock carried, and era. There were periods of time when there were contaminated live stock and quarantine rules. There were diseases for sheep (scabies), cattle (tick fever), hogs, goats, etc, and not all at the same time. There was a procedure for dipping cattle, waiting an interval, and dipping them again in order to get them certified as clean animals. If shipping clean cattle in clean areas, all that the Santa Fe required was shoveling the dirty bedding out and applying clean (sand).  Nothing else, no steam cleaning, no lime, nothing.

 

If shipping contaminated live stock in a stock car, then disinfecting the car after the shipment and proper disposal of dirty bedding was mandated by the government and various state laws. If the stock was unloaded into a pen for feed, water, and rest, that pen and all pens connected to it were considered contaminated and those pens also required disinfecting before any clean animals cold be placed there. At certain periods of time, the railroad maintained two sets of pens at many locations, one for clean animals and one for dirty animals so they did not have to continually disinfect the pens.

 

The US Department of Agriculture, Bureau of Animal Industry, had regulations governing the Interstate Movement of Live Stock, revised at various times. The July 1, 1919 rules are 27 single spaced pages and reads like the legal document it is. The permitted method of disinfecting was:

 

PERMITTED DISINFECTANTS.

 

SECTION 6. Paragraph 1. The substances permitted for use in disinfecting cars, boats, other vehicles, and premises are as follows:

(a) Compound solution of cresol, U. S. P., at a dilution of at least 4 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(b) A permitted "saponified cresol solution" at a dilution of at least 4 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(c) Liquified phenol (liquified carbolic acid) at a dilution of at least 6 fluid ounces to 1 gallon of water.

(d) Chlorid of lime (U. S. P. strength, 30 per cent available chlorin) at a dilution of 1 pound to 3 gallons of water.

Paragraph 2. The use of "saponified cresol solution" as a substitute for compound solution of cresol, U. S. P., as a disinfectant is permitted, provided that such" saponified cresol solution" shall conform to the following requirements :

1. The formula of the product shall employ not less than 28 per cent by weight of linseed oil. Either caustic potash, caustic soda, or a mixture of caustic potash and caustic soda may be used to saponify the linseed oil. The cresol used must be at least 95 per cent pure, and enough of this commercial grade of cresol (cresylic acid) must be employed in compounding the disinfectant to bring the actual amount of cresol in the finished product up to 50 per cent.

2. The product net shall remain a homogeneous liquid when cooled to 32° F. It shall contain substantially no unsaponified linseed oil or excess alkali. It shall be readily soluble in cold distilled water. The solution shall be practically clear and shall contain no globules of undissolved oil or cresylic acid.

3. Manufacturers wishing to offer saponified cresol solution as dictated above for use in official disinfection must first submit a sample of at least 8 ounces for examination, together with a statement of the formula employed and a guaranty that the product will be maintained of a quality uniform with the sample submitted.

4. To prevent confusion, each product must bear a distinctive trade name or brand, together with the name of the manufacturer or distributer. There shall be no mention of the United States Department of Agriculture or the Bureau of Animal Industry on the labels, containers, or printed matter accompanying products permitted to be used in official disinfection. The permitted saponified cresol solution hall be used at a dilution of at least 4 ounces of the solution to 1 gallon of water.

 

I have heard from list groups, but not read in any source document, that some meat packing plans steam cleaned stock cars, but again, I have searched and found nothing official to confirm that. Steam cleaning is not an authorized method in the above US Govt. document. It makes more sense that they steam cleaned meet reefers. My interviews with “old heads” who worked with shipping cattle said they only shoveled them out, but those men now in their 80s and 90s did not work on stock trains until the late 50s and 60s after most of the quarantines were no longer in use.  If any of you have any documented proof of the steam cleaning, I would like to have it for a book I am finishing up on this subject.

 

The Santa Fe Mechanical Department published a set of “Rules Governing the Painting, Cleaning, Fumigating and sanitation of Passenger, Work and Freight Equipment Cars an Steam and Diesel Locomotives,” Rev. 1952.  It states that for Santa Fe stock cars everything, inside and out, under and over, received brown mineral No. 903 primer. The wood slats were primed on all surfaces before installation into the car and then after applied were given “2 finishing coats of standard brown mineral paint. “ The exception to the all brown mineral paint was the side door slats on double deck stock cars which were to be given “two coats of refrigerator yellow on all four sides.” Now, the animals inside constantly rubbed those painted surfaces, including with horns. So I imagine the interior paint was rubbed off to a certain level long before the exterior paint would show that same wear. Steam cleaning would be very destructive to that paint as well as getting into the wood and causing the exterior paint to come off as well. From my research the exterior of stock cars tended to weather at about the same pace as wooden outside braced or double sided wooden box cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@...] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 10:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for inside model stock cars

 

Steve Sandifer can say more, but my understanding is that lime was a stopgap. Steam was more effective and essentially standard.

Tony Thompson 


On May 5, 2018, at 8:18 PM, mbcarson2002 <mbcarson@...> wrote:

FWIW, I am led to believe the stock cars were disinfected with lime between runs and so typical stock cars typically had white residue inside that sometimes bled outside.

MBC

Michael Carson

Jim Betz
 

Hi,
  These are the pics I've been waiting for ... interiors of cars that appear to actually be
either in service or just about to be placed into service.  Although one of them (all?)
is pretty early to be of major importance to me (1923).

  I doubt white wash - I've applied white wash and I think the concern would be that
the animals inside the car might chew on the boards and be contaminated ...
  I definitely have seen exterior shots of stock cars that had "some kind of white
stuff" on the lower boards that appeared to be coming out from the inside more
than 'painted on the outside' (and probably from being used to 'clean' the inside
of the car).  Other cars that clearly had several of the bottom boards (6 or so?)
painted white (exterior only?) ... I have always thought those RRs were trying to
mask the white 'ooze' ... as in "accept it and deal with it".

  I believe/recall that the RRs used a variety of materials as "bedding".  Straw or sand
(just sandy soil?) being the most common - and some times both.
  Was there room for the animals to lay down inside?  Probably not all of them at
once?

  In the 1st paragraph above I noted the date.  I would expect that there were
changes in 'standard practices' over the years.  I've never seen any details on
major ruling/practice changes for stock cars - BY DATE.  Anybody know of
some?  I'm thinking of the kind of things we've seen from Guy - but for
stock cars - or rulings/practices related to stock hauls.
                                                                                                             - Jim B.
Jim Betz
 

  This car is "too long since it was in service" for my tastes.  And do we know the
date or even decade this pic was taken?
                                                                                                                 - Jim B.
Jim Betz
 

Ed,
  I agree with your decision.  You may want to use washes of very dilute white 
with overtones of grey and/or dark organic color to represent a car that has
been cleaned in the past ...
  I've been able to achieve "weathered wood" best by using a dilute stain
rather than a paint.  If the material is actual wood (of course).

  I have a plastic box car that I lined the interior of it with wood that had
the above treatments applied and it came out -very- well.  So much so
that I like to run it with one door open and the other slighly open.  *G*
                                                                                                 - Jim B. 
Jim Betz
 

Ed,
  In re-thinking your decision above ... I think you might be better off going for "aged wood"
than "weathered" ... but with hints/evidence/recent affects caused by cleaning.
                                                                                                                                   - Jim B.
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 5/7/2018 8:43 AM, Jim Betz wrote:
Was there room for the animals to lay down inside?  Probably not all of them at
once?

    In our era I believe animals were not allowed to lay down (one reason cowboys rode the train).  If they did they probably would get trampled.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
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