Topics

Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers


Bob Chaparro
 

The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that territory?
I wouldn't mind owning one of these cars but, as I model Southern California, I'd rather not strain reality by having such a car zipping along past my palm trees and orange groves.
Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Brian Carlson
 

Bob. While I can’t answer the traveling question I wanted to point out these cars are sold out. So good luck finding one. There is a seller on eBay that lists them for $225.

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 30, 2018, at 6:47 PM, Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that territory?
I wouldn't mind owning one of these cars but, as I model Southern California, I'd rather not strain reality by having such a car zipping along past my palm trees and orange groves.
Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


rwitt_2000
 

Bob,

I have a compiled list of assignments for all the N-34 offered by Spring Mill Depot.

For 1952, 36 of the N-34 offered by SMD were in "pool service" out of Brunswick, Maryland. So it is possible some shipper served by the B&O could have shipped a commodity to Southern California using one of these N-34 in pool service.

They are a neat looking freight car.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in
this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that
territory?"

Taking something as truth from a review in MR is venturing into very dangerous ground.  MR's reviews barely meet any standard of honest criticism, and any "facts" presented beyond the basic should be viewed with skepticism, especially with the departure of staffers such as Marty McGuirk and the passing of Andy Sperandeo.


Ben Hom


BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

I model the Rock Island in Texas. Years ago, I bought a brass B&O wagon top hopper, just because they look so cool. I don’t care if they never got to Texas.

 

 

Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 7:56 AM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

 

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

 

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in

this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that
territory?"

Taking something as truth from a review in MR is venturing into very dangerous ground.  MR's reviews barely meet any standard of honest criticism, and any "facts" presented beyond the basic should be viewed with skepticism, especially with the departure of staffers such as Marty McGuirk and the passing of Andy Sperandeo.

 

 

Ben Hom


Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Ben,

So you don't hang of MR's word as gospel? lol I guess you and I are in the minority thinking that. I finally came to that realization back many years ago with a glowing review of a Tyco diesel I had experience with and knew it was just stroking an advertiser.

With the loss of some serious modelers the quality of everything has diminished to a waste of ink and electrons to me. 

I think the interchange system in place and the sales departments of the railroads and companies served would dictate any car could end up most anywhere. I know of no restrictions as to interchanging cars that are eligible for that service. A company could also dictate which railroad routing they used so anything ought to be possible.

No photos..........no proof.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Thursday, May 31, 2018, 7:56:33 AM CDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Bob Chaparro asked: 
"The June 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a product review (Page 66) of Spring Mills Depot's HO scale B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers. The review states that these cars carried cement, soda ash, clay and (later) glass sand.

The review also concedes that these cars operated mainly in the Midwest. However, the review also suggests these cars could have traveled across the country.

I know this group has pretty well established that similar covered hoppers almost always stayed on or close to their home tracks. So in
this instance, would their have been any commodity originated in the B&O's territory that would have traveled well outside that
territory?"

Taking something as truth from a review in MR is venturing into very dangerous ground.  MR's reviews barely meet any standard of honest criticism, and any "facts" presented beyond the basic should be viewed with skepticism, especially with the departure of staffers such as Marty McGuirk and the passing of Andy Sperandeo.


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 


I have a photo of a B&O coal hopper being loaded with coke (from petroleum) at
a Texas refinery. The B&O interchanged with the Rock Island and Cotton Belt and
for many years controlled the Chicago & Alton - reaching all the way to Kansas City.

I'd give a "moderate probability" for occasional B&O N-34 appearances in Arkansas and
Texas. But Colorado? California? Not so much. Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin? Highly likely,
but just occasionally. You wouldn't want to see one in every op session.

Tim O'Connor



I model the Rock Island in Texas. Years ago, I bought a brass B&O wagon top hopper,
just because they look so cool. I don't care if they never got to Texas.
Thanks!
Brian Ehni


Bill McCoy
 

While I was a Sales Rep for SCL in the early 70’s in Miami there was a severe Portland cement shortage. We handled 5  and 6 cars of cement from NE PA every week for Maule Industries in Miami. Most had LNE and CNJ markings. In the late 70’s when I was assigned to the SCL Norfolk, VA sales office I had a regular movement of Calcium Aluminate cement to the Alyeska pipeline project that moved in SAL, ACL, and SCL 2929 cu ft hoppers to Fairbanks, AK. It lasted a couple of years. Also in Miami we had regular visits of ATSF OT hoppers with decorative red stone for landscaping companies.

Bottom line is that my experience was that if it had no clearance problem any car could show up anywhere on occasion. Enjoy your N-34 in the golden state.

 

Bill McCoy


Brad Andonian
 

So I have to ask whether those Alyeska bound cars were carfloated up via Seattle....    Anyone have an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Richard Townsend
 

Seattle to Whittier, AK. Maybe some went via Prince Rupert, but I am not sure.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Andonian via Groups.Io <cereshill@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, May 31, 2018 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Travels Of B&O N-34 Covered Hoppers

So I have to ask whether those Alyeska bound cars were carfloated up via Seattle....    Anyone have an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Tim O'Connor
 

So, Bill, let me get this straight. If specialty cements and economic circumstances
in the massively changed economic and regulatory environment of the 1970's involved
long distance shipments, then it must a priori have happened just as often in the
steam era?

Tim O'Connor

While I was a Sales Rep for SCL in the early 70s in Miami there was a severe Portland cement shortage. We handled 5 and 6 cars of cement from NE PA every week for Maule Industries in Miami. Most had LNE and CNJ markings. In the late 70s when I was assigned to the SCL Norfolk, VA sales office I had a regular movement of Calcium Aluminate cement to the Alyeska pipeline project that moved in SAL, ACL, and SCL 2929 cu ft hoppers to Fairbanks, AK. It lasted a couple of years. Also in Miami we had regular visits of ATSF OT hoppers with decorative red stone for landscaping companies.

Bottom line is that my experience was that if it had no clearance problem any car could show up anywhere on occasion. Enjoy your N-34 in the golden state.

Bill McCoy


Edward
 

There were only 200 of the B&O N-34 class covered hoppers built in 1940, with Duryea cushion underframes. 
Numbers 630300-630399 were built at the company shops in Keyser WV, with numbers 630400-630499 built at the company shops in DuBois PA.
This was a small class of cars, many of which were assigned to the cement and glass making industries on the B&O system.
Several were also in service to Haliburton and similar outfits, hauling processed clay used in oil well drilling.
This sent some B&O N-34 cars out to Louisiana and Texas.
Being such a small class, they tended not to roam very far from the B&O.
Finding contemporary photos of them in service is not easy possibly because of photo restrictions during the war years.
As time went on and their Duryea cushion under-frames becoming barred from interchange service, they were retired and scrapped.
Classes N-36 (150 cars) from Greenville in 1941 and ACF (350 cars) in 1946 as well as class N-40 from Greenville (500 cars) in 1948,
more than over shadowed the clutch of unique N-34 class cars on the B&O.
All classes shown here are listed in B&O diagrams as 'cement' cars.
Ed Bommer


 


Bill McCoy
 

They were routed via SCL- Atlanta -.L&N-Chicago - BN - Seattle - Alaska Hydro-train - Anchorage-ARR. Even the ACL's "whopper Hopper" (by then SCL 500000) made one trip. 

We eventually were short-hauled  via L&N - Cincinnati - DT&I - CN- Prince Rupert, BC when Halliburton  got their own cars and put together a deal with the CN via Detroit. The movement petered out shortly after that. I think Overland offered a model of the Haliburton car that were used. 

Bill McCoy


Bill McCoy
 

This traffic all moved prepaid but establishing a joint line commodity rate to cover this would have been no problem and the origin carried would have done all the work. This apparently came through the shipper and I can't remember who it was but they no doubt asked the CNJ ( I think they took over a lot of the L&NE cement territory).  All we did was collect a division fro Richmond but the Trunk  Lline territory vis the SFTB (Southern Freight Association) would have asked the SCL for concurrence and we would have jumped all over it. The Maule facility this traffic moved to was closed to reciprocal switching on SCL so the Southern and FEC wouldn't have had a dog in the fight. These rates could have been published in a couple of weeks. 
When de-regulation came in 1980 sadly most of the rate tariffs, and other materials went to the recyclers post haste. As often the case a lot of background was lost.

Bill McCoy


Bill McCoy
 

Richard, You are correct. The junction was Whittier not Anchorage. When we got short-hauled on this business via Cincinnati in the Haliburton cars they used CN Aqua Train via Prince Rupert, BC.

Bill McCoy 


Craig Wilson
 

No speculation here ... a specific reference:  At the Chicagoland RPM last fall I bought a nice color print whose main subject was a Duluth South Shore & Atlantic RS-1 taken in the late 1950's at St. Ignace Michigan (where the Chief Wawatam car ferry connection was located).  But ... also in this photo is one of the B&O N-34 covered hoppers.  No clue as to what commodity would have brought it here but no missing that distinctive car.  And also in the photo ... one of the Warren Petroleum Co. propane tank cars!

Craig Wilson


proto48er
 

There is a photo of a B&O N-34 covered hopper being unloaded at a refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas in the early 1940's.  The car was delivering silica - alumina catalyst to a fluid catalytic cracking unit at a refinery.  The photo is in an issue of Oil & Gas Journal from about 1943 or so.
A.T, Kott


Tim O'Connor
 


That makes sense - catalysts are very valuable and can travel very long distances.
Some are manufactured and there are also natural catalysts (e.g. zeolites).


There is a photo of a B&O N-34 covered hopper being unloaded at a refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas in the early 1940's.  The car was delivering silica - alumina catalyst to a fluid catalytic cracking unit at a refinery.  The photo is in an issue of Oil & Gas Journal from about 1943 or so.
A.T, Kott


Tim O'Connor
 


Michigan was (and is) a source for silica sand and foundry sand and it could
have delivered a load to Duluth/Superior... or maybe even to the Algoma Central
via Sault Ste Marie? Or maybe it was just carrying cement - another commodity
produced in Michigan.




No speculation here ... a specific reference:  At the Chicagoland RPM last fall I bought a nice color print whose main subject was a Duluth South Shore & Atlantic RS-1 taken in the late 1950's at St. Ignace Michigan (where the Chief Wawatam car ferry connection was located).  But ... also in this photo is one of the B&O N-34 covered hoppers.  No clue as to what commodity would have brought it here but no missing that distinctive car.  And also in the photo ... one of the Warren Petroleum Co. propane tank cars!

Craig Wilson