Topics

How To Ventilate FGE 25339?


Bob Chaparro
 

This Fruit Growers Express car is identified on its flanks as "Combined Ventilator Refrigerator":

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-04-17/X1450.jpg

But there are no ventilation openings on the sides or ends. The roof view shows no rooftop ventilator and no latch bars for the hatch covers:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-03-17/X1448.jpg

So physically how did this car operated in ventilator mode?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Edward
 

There may have been a folding bracket in the top of the ice well, or under the hatch to support it in an open position.
Ventilation would depend on movement of the car in a train to provide air circulation.

Ed Bommer 


Dennis Storzek
 

Keep in mind that the ice hatches are closed with two separate pieces; the hatch cover that we see, and the plug, which is a canvas covered rectangle with padded edges to form a good seal. Later iterations had the two attached by links so opening the hatch cover also pulled the plug up, and propping the hatch covers up on latch bars also held the plug open. I suspect in this earlier time the covers were just flopped back on the roof and the plugs propped open. This had the unintended consequence of making the bunkers open to pilferage, one of the advantages claimed by Bohn in literature about their ventilators was that they kept the bunkers secure while the plugs were open.

Dennis Storzek


Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

Wonder what body color FGE used at this time and for how long it was used?  Appears to be a freight car red?

Note that one side of the car has some chalk marks,  but the other side is chalk free.  these photos are great to study the art of chalk marks.

ted


At 12:22 AM 6/8/2018, you wrote:

This Fruit Growers Express car is identified on its flanks as "Combined Ventilator Refrigerator":

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-04-17/X1450.jpg

But there are no ventilation openings on the sides or ends. The roof view shows no rooftop ventilator and no latch bars for the hatch covers:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-03-17/X1448.jpg

So physically how did this car operated in ventilator mode?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

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rwitt_2000
 

Note the time period of this photo.

The re-weigh date is 1919 so this is a Fruit Growers Express reefer when it was a division of Armour prior to the creation of the later FGE  in the 1920s.

Bill Welch can provided much more information.

Bob Witt


Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

This Fruit Growers Express car is identified on its flanks as "Combined Ventilator Refrigerator":
But there are no ventilation openings on the sides or ends. The roof view shows no rooftop ventilator and no latch bars for the hatch covers:
So physically how did this car operated in ventilator mode?

     Like any other ice reefer, by opening the hatches. A great many ice reefers were lettered "Ventilator and Refrigerator."

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 08:54 am, Ted Schnepf wrote:
Wonder what body color FGE used at this time and for how long it was used?  Appears to be a freight car red?
I believe the car is the standard PFE yellow orange, and the dark tone is the result of being photographed on orthochromatic film, which turned reds black and oranges very dark. Note the lettering on the car side is black and barely shows; not what one would expect if the car were painted FCR. I'd say over half the photos I've seen of Soo Line reefers from this period show no lettering what-so-ever, it simply disappears into the same graytone the film rendered the orange sides. Only the white lettering in the herald shows.

Dennis Storzek


Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:32 am, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I believe the car is the standard PFE yellow orange,
Oops! I meant FGE yellow orange.

Dennis


Bob Chaparro
 

I think you missed the point that there were no visible latching mechanisms so just opening the hatch covers would not have been very efficient.


Dave Parker
 

In keeping  some other comments, I don't find this arrangement at all unusual.  All of the pre-war (that's WWI) MDT reefers had very minimal hardware on the hatches -- a small hasp to "lock" it, and a lift handle.  The familiar latch bars only appeared on the post-war cars, and I have seen nothing to suggest that the prewar cars were retrofitted.

The early MDT cars did not say VENTILATED initially, but the photos suggest that they all did by the mid-twenties, regardless of hatch configuration.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


ROGER HINMAN
 

All of the pre WW1 MDT cars do have a bar to support the hatch cover being opened. Good hatch photos are tough to come by,. The photo in my book on p133 at the bottom shows one of the early lots of the pre WW1 cars with a supporting mechanism to keep the hatch open, but that piece appears to have been stored inside the hatch cover when closed. On p137 you can clearly see the more common angled bar with a few holes in it on later lots, with the top photo showing the cover supported open. These are both pre WW1 photos. These pieces were attached with an eyebolt and often lay flat making it hard to see in photos. I'm wondering if the FGE car photo had something under the hatch cover, although just leaving the cover flat on its back with the plug pulled would work.

Roger Hinman


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Parker via Groups.Io <spottab@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 8, 2018 2:54 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How To Ventilate FGE 25339?

In keeping  some other comments, I don't find this arrangement at all unusual.  All of the pre-war (that's WWI) MDT reefers had very minimal hardware on the hatches -- a small hasp to "lock" it, and a lift handle.  The familiar latch bars only appeared on the post-war cars, and I have seen nothing to suggest that the prewar cars were retrofitted.

The early MDT cars did not say VENTILATED initially, but the photos suggest that they all did by the mid-twenties, regardless of hatch configuration.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Bob Chaparro
 

On the Early Rail Group John Ott provided this photo which shows how the hatch covers were kept open.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

    But those appear to be the plugs in front of the hatches.  With the hatch open and the train moving what was done with the plugs?  Inside the car?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


John Barry
 

I agree with Dennis about the orthochromatic film and it's rendition of reds and oranges. It's made color interpretation of aircraft camouflage and markings difficult in my other hobby. But I do think this car has a freight or box car red end account the white reporting mark and number on the end as well as the subtle differences in tone between the end and side.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 


PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 6/8/18, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How To Ventilate FGE 25339?
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Friday, June 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at
08:54 am, Ted Schnepf wrote:

Wonder what body color FGE used at this time and
for how long it was used?  Appears to be a freight car
red?
I believe the car is the standard PFE yellow orange, and the
dark tone is the result of being photographed on
orthochromatic film, which turned reds black and oranges
very dark. Note the lettering on the car side is black and
barely shows; not what one would expect if the car were
painted FCR. I'd say over half the photos I've seen
of Soo Line reefers from this period show no lettering
what-so-ever, it simply disappears into the same graytone
the film rendered the orange sides. Only the white lettering
in the herald shows.

Dennis
Storzek


Bill Welch
 
Edited

I have been away from my computer and just now catching up to this. FGE 25339 represented the most modern cars in the Armor owned FGE fleet being built about 1913. It has a Bettendorf underframe very like the reefers built by PFE. This iteration of FGE did not do a breakdown in the ORER's of the various groups of cars but my guess is these cars were about half of their fleet of around 5,000 cars, the other half being truss rod types. All went to the new RR owned Fruit Growers Express and were quickly given FGEX reporting marks.

I believe that the L&N also provided reefers with this type of underframe (or very similar) when it traded rolling stock for ownership stock in FGE. As the attached photo of one of my tables shows, there were probably five similar groups of cars, meaning FGEX may have also picked other used reefers they did not report in their Annual Reports. Many were modernized w/Hutchins roofs and AB brakes and served on through WWII but after the war were either scrapped or moved to Ice Service.

Bill Welch