Topics

Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others


Bob Chaparro
 

Below are some photo links from the Erie Lackawanna Railfan.net E-Mail List Photo Archive. Most of these photos exhibit very good detail.

LPT 1023 3/4 End Views

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-27-13/C2910.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-28-13/C2913.jpg

LPT 1023 Partial Side View

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-28-13/C2914.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-28-13/C2912.jpg

PTC 1461 End View

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-27-13/C2908.jpg

This last link shows no car initials. Can someone confirm that these also are poultry cars?

Roofs - Unidentified Poultry (?) Cars

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-27-13/C2909.jpg

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Jack Mullen
 

Yes those are certainly poultry cars. The raised running board with ventilator flaps, and the central raised hatch are identifying features.

Jack Mullen


Bill Welch
 

Then there are the chickens.

Bill Welch


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 7/7/2018 4:52 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
Then there are the chickens.

Barred Rock, just like my hens!:-D

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Jim Allen
 

I love these pictures. Are there anymore of other cars out there? Any plans? What was the layout on the inside of the car?

Jim Allen


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Steve SANDIFER
 

The problem with all models I have seen of poultry cars is the inside.
Models make it look like one or two large cages. In truth there are 128
individual cages on most, 8 cages high and 4 cages wide in each quadrant of
the car, with an approximately a 2' aisle down the middle. The car preserved
at St. Louis has a wooden base for each of those cages. I assume it would be
possible to design some etched metal interior fittings to simulate that and
then install 4000 chicken models into those cages.


J. Stephen Sandifer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Jim Allen
Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2018 6:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

I love these pictures. Are there anymore of other cars out there? Any
plans? What was the layout on the inside of the car?

Jim Allen


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Douglas Harding
 

Jim once source of information about poultry cars is:
http://www.hoosiervalley.org/photos/historic-railroad-photos/live-poultry-ca
rs/ and http://www.hoosiervalley.org/history/turkeys-and-trains/
In the early years there were many different designs for these cars. But the
Live Poultry Transit car (1893) became the standard, until the Palace
Poultry car came into being in 1924. It would appear these cars came
equipped with crates, and birds were place in the crates by hand, thus
allowing the farmer to take his own crates back home for the next load.
Photo attached showing the interior of a poultry car (Brookport 1700).

As Steve indicted, most poultry cars were designed to contain crates stacked
from floor to ceiling on each side of a center aisle. The car attendance
used that center aisle to place of remove birds, collect eggs, feed and
water, and clean the crates. But not all cars followed this design. I have a
photo that shows a car that appears to be one giant cage, with no internal
structure for holding crates (photo attached). The Continental Poultry car
1890 had stanchions, not shelves, to hold crates in place (see railway
review article attached).

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Jim Allen
Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2018 6:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

I love these pictures. Are there anymore of other cars out there? Any
plans? What was the layout on the inside of the car?

Jim Allen


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Jim Allen
 

Thank you all for the information.  I still have one question.   What was the middle center area of the car for?  The attendant to ride in?  Was enclosed to make it a little more condusive for a person?   Was there a desk area? Chair? etc.

Just asking,

Jim Allen

--
Jim Allen
Utah


Armand Premo
 

Actually,how many poultry were there in service?Armand Premo


On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 12:29 PM Jim Allen <jimp72@...> wrote:
Thank you all for the information.  I still have one question.   What was the middle center area of the car for?  The attendant to ride in?  Was enclosed to make it a little more condusive for a person?   Was there a desk area? Chair? etc.

Just asking,

Jim Allen

--
Jim Allen
Utah


Douglas Harding
 

Jim the center section was indeed housing for the car attendant. It was equipped with a stove and I understand there was a cot. I don’t know about a desk, but there had to be something for paperwork related to the birds collected. The compartment was enclosed, with a sliding doors, as well as a ventilated/barred door when needed. There were water tanks and feed bunks overhead. And compartments for feed and/or supplies stashed below. Attached is a photo showing the interior of the compartment. As you can see there were doors on both sides. Remember all birds were handed through these doors, so lots of feathers, droppings, etc would be the norm.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Allen
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 4:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

 

Thank you all for the information.  I still have one question.   What was the middle center area of the car for?  The attendant to ride in?  Was enclosed to make it a little more condusive for a person?   Was there a desk area? Chair? etc.

 

Just asking,

 

Jim Allen


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Ray Breyer
 

>>Actually,how many poultry were there in service?
>>Armand Premo


When? 1888 to 1950 is a pretty long time span.

But...to mostly answer your question: nobody really knows. The height of poultry cars seems to be right at their crash: 1930. That year National Car Co. bought LPTX and folded it into PPKX, which it had bought three years earlier. The 1930 ORER says that there were 607 PPKX cars and 2200 LPTX cars. The CP also owned TWO cars, for a grand total of 2,809 poultry cars. Numbers dropped significantly from there, until National spun off the last 249 cars in 1944 as PTCX. That company drops off the ORER by early 1951.

But that's only most of the equation. The ACF lot list says that the company built 939 poultry cars between 1899 and 1932, and I have photos of poultry cars built by Pullman, Haskell & Barker, Standard Steel, and Pressed Steel (no quantities from each builder, sadly). And in the pre-WWI period, a few large railroads owned a small number of poultry cars, mostly to feed the NYC to DC metro area. A few examples:

C&EI, 1 car (1915)
DL&W, 48 cars (1915)
LV, 25 cars (1901)
Southern 36 cars (1917)
Swift (Western States Live Poultry Line), 17 cars (1910)
CP, 2 in 1930, 4 in 1945.

Overall, I suspect that  there were never more than 3,500 poultry stock cars ever built. So there were never very many of these cars around, but if you're modeling a specific time and place they're mandatory to have in your fleet (especially if you're modeling a main line into NYC before WWII).

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Ian Cranstone
 

CN also rostered two cars between 1923 and 1934, numbered 149000-149001.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

 


On 2018-07-10 16:58, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io wrote:

Overall, I suspect that  there were never more than 3,500 poultry stock cars ever built. So there were never very many of these cars around, but if you're modeling a specific time and place they're mandatory to have in your fleet (especially if you're modeling a main line into NYC before WWII).
 


Fran Giacoma
 


Jim Allen
 

How far west do you think these cars went?


Jim


Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

--
Jim Allen
Utah


Jim Allen
 

I have really been enjoying and learning alot from this Poultry thread.  I am a D&RGW fan.  You posted a picture of a car.  I blew it up and was looking closely at it.  So here are some more questions.  What is written on the car door?   Under the door, on the sill it has something and then a date.... looks like 1-31-42?  and under that D&RGW as clear as day.   Was that car assigned to the D&RGW?  Serviced by D&RGW?  Owned by D&RGW?  Obviously has some connection to it and or traveled on D&RGW trackage.  

Just trying to understand the markings etc.  I may just have to model one or two of that car!

Thanks for the help and insight.

Jim Allen



--
Jim Allen
Utah


Ray Breyer
 

That photo was taken in Stockton California in 1947, near the very tail end of poultry car operations. Given the size and placement of the stencil, I'd suspect that it's a repack or reweigh date and location. 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018, 10:47:58 AM CDT, Jim Allen <jimp72@...> wrote:


I have really been enjoying and learning alot from this Poultry thread.  I am a D&RGW fan.  You posted a picture of a car.  I blew it up and was looking closely at it.  So here are some more questions.  What is written on the car door?   Under the door, on the sill it has something and then a date.... looks like 1-31-42?  and under that D&RGW as clear as day.   Was that car assigned to the D&RGW?  Serviced by D&RGW?  Owned by D&RGW?  Obviously has some connection to it and or traveled on D&RGW trackage.  

Just trying to understand the markings etc.  I may just have to model one or two of that car!

Thanks for the help and insight.

Jim Allen



--
Jim Allen
Utah


Bruce Smith
 

Or brake reservoir test ;)  The D&RGW would indicate that the D&RGW performed the mandated test or service. That would indicate that the photo was taken within a year of 1-31-47.  The date is 1947, not 1942 on the stencil, agreeing with Ray’s 1947 time frame.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

That photo was taken in Stockton California in 1947, near the very tail end of poultry car operations. Given the size and placement of the stencil, I'd suspect that it's a repack or reweigh date and location. 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018, 10:47:58 AM CDT, Jim Allen <jimp72@...> wrote:


I have really been enjoying and learning alot from this Poultry thread.  I am a D&RGW fan.  You posted a picture of a car.  I blew it up and was looking closely at it.  So here are some more questions.  What is written on the car door?   Under the door, on the sill it has something and then a date.... looks like 1-31-42?  and under that D&RGW as clear as day.   Was that car assigned to the D&RGW?  Serviced by D&RGW?  Owned by D&RGW?  Obviously has some connection to it and or traveled on D&RGW trackage.  

Just trying to understand the markings etc.  I may just have to model one or two of that car!

Thanks for the help and insight.

Jim Allen



--
Jim Allen
Utah


Randy Hees
 

The "D&RGW" stencil may be a journal "repack" date....


Steve SANDIFER
 

I have photos of poultry cars in Dodge City, KS, Seligman, AZ, and Ft. Madison, IA on the ATSF.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Allen
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 5:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

 

How far west do you think these cars went?

 

Jim

 

Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Douglas Harding
 

They got pretty far west. Attached is a photo of a Pacific Wholesale car that was based in Petaluma CA, north of San Francisco. Can’t get much further west than that. Petaluma was a major poultry production area serving the San Francisco market. Pacific Wholesale had several cars. Reporting marks were around until Oct 1954.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 11:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

 

I have photos of poultry cars in Dodge City, KS, Seligman, AZ, and Ft. Madison, IA on the ATSF.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Allen
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 5:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

 

How far west do you think these cars went?

 

Jim

 

Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


--
Jim Allen
Utah