Topics

Tangent Horizontal Brake Wheels


Bill Welch
 
Edited

Before leaving for the C'ville RPM I ordered three different Tank Car parts sets for Tangent with brake wheels. Here is a Shoppers Guide:

#95009-07 contains only one Brake Wheel. Photo on the site was very small and I could tell what I was getting so I took a leap. $3.00 The one brake wheel included is replicated in the other two parts packages.

#95015-09 contains the three brake wheels you see here and very nice Reservoir, Brake Cylinder and AB but cost $8.00. There may some other useful tank car things but will not repeat.

#95007-06 This has the same brake wheels as above—$3.00.

Two of them are dished although not sure this comes thru in the photos.

Hopefully the Brake Wheel Mavins here can ID each one.

Bill Welch


Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

The one in the middle is definitely SUPERIOR. I don't recognize the others,
but the one on the left may be a late "stamped" style rather than a cast wheel.

Tim



Hopefully the Brake Wheel Mavins here can ID each one.
Bill Welch
Attachments:


Nelson Moyer
 

What are the brake wheel diameters in scale inches? I’m looking to replace some resin cast brake wheels that were damaged/destroyed during handling and operation.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:11 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tangent Horizontal Brake Wheels

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Before leaving for the C'ville RPM I ordered three different Tank Car parts sets for Tangent with brake wheels. Here is a Shoppers Guide:

#95009-07 contains only one Brake Wheel. Photo on the site was very small and I could tell what I was getting so I took a leap. $3.00 The one brake wheel included is replicated in the other two parts packages.

#95015-09 contains the three brake wheels you see here and very nice Reservoir, Brake Cylinder and AB but cost $8.00. There may some other useful tank car things but will not repeat.

#95007-06 This has the same brake wheels as above—$3.00.

Two of them are dished although not sure this comes thru in the photos.

Hopefully the Brake Wheel Mavins here can ID each one.

Bill Welch


Bill Welch
 

They are 15-inches.

Bill Welch


Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Bill. The resin castings for my CB&Q cars are quite a bit larger (20 in. dia.). I don’t have any scale drawings of classes XM-21/22/23, so I don’t know if the brake wheels from Westerfield are the correct prototype diameter. If anyone has access to scale drawings, please measure the brake wheel and let me know the diameter. Nobody makes a six spoke 20 in. brake wheel to my knowledge.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 1:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent Horizontal Brake Wheels

 

They are 15-inches.

Bill Welch


Gene Green <genegreen1942@...>
 

Bill, once again, excellent photos both of the hand wheels and your IC box car.  Perhaps you should give a clinic on your photography techniques.

Speaking about the hand wheels in your first photo only, the left, 5-spoke wheel, approximates the Equipco E-329 in use from 1932 to 1970 or the URECO 3428 in use from 1945 until . . . I don't know.   (Those two hand wheels were identical except for the markings.)  The web between spokes at the center of the wheel should be a little bigger, covering about half the distance from center to rim to better represent either of these hand wheels.  If, on the other hand, the web was a little smaller it would represent a Universal M1842 hand wheel.  The Universal hand wheel was slightly dished in the center.

The middle hand wheel is a gem - the Superior hand wheel used on great numbers of GATX-built tank cars.  I have drawings for two versions of that hand wheel.  Both are dished slightly.

The right, 6-spoke wheel, could represent any of three wheels I found for which I can find no identification.  Since I have never found photos or drawings of such 6-spoke hand wheels in any of the hand brakes manufacturers' literature or ads, I tend to think these may have been really old hand wheels from some supplier back in Plate A days or hand wheels made by railroads.  I simply do not know.

Judging by your photos, all three hand wheels appear to be dished about the correct amount.

Nelson, to your question about diameters.  Beginning in the late 1930s horizontal hand wheels were 16" in diameter.  Earlier hand wheels were sometimes 15" in diameter.  Vertical wheel brakes have wheels 22" in diameter.  Earlier in the 1930s Miner produced a 24" vertical hand wheel.  Those 15" and 24" hand wheels would have been "grandfathered in" but would be rare nonetheless.

I have never encountered either an extant example or any indication in literature - ads, etc. - a 20 inch diameter wheel, 6-spoke or otherwise, but, before the late 1930s, such certainly could have been produced.

I have never encountered a 16" diameter, forged hand wheel (forged = stamped) with anything other than straight spokes.  By the time forged hand wheels came into widespread use, the idea of company identity in the hand wheel had been dropped.  Indeed, in the case of 22" diameter hand wheels, there ended up being only two designs - deep and shallow - made by one company from dies owned by one hand brake manufacturer.  As a result every vertical wheel hand brake sold by any hand brake manufacturer ended up providing a modicum of profit to the hand brake manufacturer who owned the dies.  Notice I did not mention any names.  I have been sworn to secrecy.

Gene Green



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Bill Welch
 

Thanks Gene, from what I can tell the third brake wheel is not Dished but the other two are Dished. The middle wheel also seems close the the typical brake wheel used by the Pennsy, not exact but close. I will use it if I do not have Red Caboose spares.

Regarding a photography clinic, I am turning it over in my head. Mike gave me permission to do something on the list and I have shot a couple of photos already. I need to find a partner who can speak/write about using phone cameras as I do not have one. I know the IPhone can be used for closeup.

Bill Welch


Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks for addressing my question, Gene. You’ve actually made things easier, because now I can substitute a plastic 16 in. brake wheel whenever one of the resin wheels is broken. At the breakage rate I’m seeing, that won’t take very long.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Green via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 6:57 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent Horizontal Brake Wheels

 

Bill, once again, excellent photos both of the hand wheels and your IC box car.  Perhaps you should give a clinic on your photography techniques.

 

Speaking about the hand wheels in your first photo only, the left, 5-spoke wheel, approximates the Equipco E-329 in use from 1932 to 1970 or the URECO 3428 in use from 1945 until . . . I don't know.   (Those two hand wheels were identical except for the markings.)  The web between spokes at the center of the wheel should be a little bigger, covering about half the distance from center to rim to better represent either of these hand wheels.  If, on the other hand, the web was a little smaller it would represent a Universal M1842 hand wheel.  The Universal hand wheel was slightly dished in the center.

 

The middle hand wheel is a gem - the Superior hand wheel used on great numbers of GATX-built tank cars.  I have drawings for two versions of that hand wheel.  Both are dished slightly.

 

The right, 6-spoke wheel, could represent any of three wheels I found for which I can find no identification.  Since I have never found photos or drawings of such 6-spoke hand wheels in any of the hand brakes manufacturers' literature or ads, I tend to think these may have been really old hand wheels from some supplier back in Plate A days or hand wheels made by railroads.  I simply do not know.

 

Judging by your photos, all three hand wheels appear to be dished about the correct amount.

 

Nelson, to your question about diameters.  Beginning in the late 1930s horizontal hand wheels were 16" in diameter.  Earlier hand wheels were sometimes 15" in diameter.  Vertical wheel brakes have wheels 22" in diameter.  Earlier in the 1930s Miner produced a 24" vertical hand wheel.  Those 15" and 24" hand wheels would have been "grandfathered in" but would be rare nonetheless.

 

I have never encountered either an extant example or any indication in literature - ads, etc. - a 20 inch diameter wheel, 6-spoke or otherwise, but, before the late 1930s, such certainly could have been produced.

 

I have never encountered a 16" diameter, forged hand wheel (forged = stamped) with anything other than straight spokes.  By the time forged hand wheels came into widespread use, the idea of company identity in the hand wheel had been dropped.  Indeed, in the case of 22" diameter hand wheels, there ended up being only two designs - deep and shallow - made by one company from dies owned by one hand brake manufacturer.  As a result every vertical wheel hand brake sold by any hand brake manufacturer ended up providing a modicum of profit to the hand brake manufacturer who owned the dies.  Notice I did not mention any names.  I have been sworn to secrecy.

 

Gene Green

 


Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 04:57 AM, Gene Green wrote:
The right, 6-spoke wheel, could represent any of three wheels I found for which I can find no identification.  Since I have never found photos or drawings of such 6-spoke hand wheels in any of the hand brakes manufacturers' literature or ads, I tend to think these may have been really old hand wheels from some supplier back in Plate A days or hand wheels made by railroads.  I simply do not know.
Gene, there is a page in the 1922 CBC that shows National Malleable hand brake products; brake staff steps, roof brackets, ratchet and pawls, that also shows both five and six spoke wheels with curved spokes and no dish. As was stated before, the curved spoke design was actually a response to a molding problem, so everyone used it.
 
Nelson, to your question about diameters.  Beginning in the late 1930s horizontal hand wheels were 16" in diameter.  Earlier hand wheels were sometimes 15" in diameter.  Vertical wheel brakes have wheels 22" in diameter.  Earlier in the 1930s Miner produced a 24" vertical hand wheel.  Those 15" and 24" hand wheels would have been "grandfathered in" but would be rare nonetheless.
 
It might be worth noting that many of the hand brake manufacturers also supplied hand brakes designed for passenger cars, with the brake gear intended for "blind end cars" such as baggage cars arranged with a long shaft that passed through the car end so there was a hand brake wheel available both inside and outside the car. These were traditionally oversize wheels, although I can't find a reference to the actual diameter, possibly because they were intended for use without a brake club for added leverage. I modeled the gear as part of an etched brass kit some years ago, and had to include an etched brake wheel as there was simply nothing available. My notes say the cast six spoke wheel was 23" in diameter.

Dennis Storzek