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PTC or STC?
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David has said before that PTC frames from about 1912 to 1916 look exactly like STC underframes built beginning in 1916, when both PTC and STC changed designs. It's very confusing! :-) Tim O' "Why do you think the Ohio Cities Gas Co.car was built by Pennsylvania Tank Car? Standard Car Construction Co. (STC's predecessor) started in 1915 and didn't build cars in quantity until 1916, while high-walkway cars with the stereotypical "STC" underframe appear in the ORER entries for Pennsylvania Tank Line (PTC's leasing arm) as early as 1912. David Thompson
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David
Pennsylvania Tank Line first appears in the February 1912 ORER with a picture of PTX 1001:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&;output=reader&id=QRs6AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA522 Their entry used a picture of PTX 1061 by December 1912: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&;output=reader&id=tboMAQAAIAAJ&pg=GBS.PA998 In May 1915, the picture changed to PTX 1091. Decent picture here: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&;output=reader&id=ZPg4AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA849 The change to the "new" underframe appeared on PTX 3500 in May 1917: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&;output=reader&id=O_c4AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA915 The more familiar cast tank saddles seem to have started circa 1918. Standard Car Equipment Co. first appears in the January 1916 ORER. The first picture appears in February 1917: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&;output=reader&id=ZPg4AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA945 And as a bonus, here are some pre-1917 German/General American tanks: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&;output=reader&id=Wgs5AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA923 https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&;output=reader&id=Wgs5AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA943 David Thompson
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brianleppert@att.net
This discussion is about a photo on page 135 in Steve Hile's new book "UTLX Steam Era Tank Cars". Shown are two high platform tank cars owned by The Ohio Cities Gas Company. Part of the caption reads "built by Standard Tank Car Company in 1914".
I own the original photograph. The correct built date is July 1916. The cars were weighed at "SHRN 7 16". Stenciled on the center frame, just to the left of the reporting marks is "REPAIRED & PAINTED BY PEOPLES TK. LINE CO AT COFFEYVILE KANS." There is no mention anywhere of who built the car, maybe because of the repaint. Attached is a detail of OCGX 5255. Other dates stenciled on the underframe seem to read "repacked 7 16 1919" and on the air reservoir "4-19" On the back of the print is stamped "RECEIVED JUL 30 1919 Traffic Department". Geez, the print is 99 years old. Is David claiming that ALL the high-walkway tank cars with Standard Tank Car look-alike underframes were actually built by Pennsylvania Tank Car? Brian Leppert Carson City, NV
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David
I believe that most, if not all, of those high-walkway tanks are PTC cars. A century later, there is probably no way to know for certain short of a photo showing the original pressure test data.
As an aside, I did some poking around and I believe the actual STC shop was immediately southeast of downtown Masury, Ohio, and is currently Bull Moose Tube, and that the PTC shop was one or more of the current Lee Industrial Properties and Ohio Steel Sheet and Plate. David Thompson
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Brian,
Thanks for the updated information. I am sorry that we
did not credit your photo properly.
The relationship between Standard Car Construction Company
(Standard Tank Car Company) and Pennsylvania Tank Car Company must have pretty
convoluted, but symbiotic, at least initially.
Any MCB Class III tank cars (built after May 1917) had to have
the lower running boards, so STC could have only built a small number of high
walkway cars in the short period of time between its founding and the Class III
requirements beginning.
However, we can note that the various PTC high walkway cars
shown in the ORER entries that David Thompson cites all use horizontal brake
wheels, while the two OCGX cars in the book photo demonstrate the use of a level
hand brake on a "stick" that was pretty common on early STC cars. The tall
side facing ladder does match the PTC entries.
So, based on Brian's better photo, the caption should be
updated to read built in 1916, which makes it possible that it was built by STC
or PTC.
I will begin an errata sheet for the book and look forward to
other corrections and assistance.
Thanks,
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of brianleppert@... Sent: Friday, August 03, 2018 6:34 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PTC or STC? I own the original photograph. The correct built date is July 1916. The cars were weighed at "SHRN 7 16". Stenciled on the center frame, just to the left of the reporting marks is "REPAIRED & PAINTED BY PEOPLES TK. LINE CO AT COFFEYVILE KANS." There is no mention anywhere of who built the car, maybe because of the repaint. Attached is a detail of OCGX 5255. Other dates stenciled on the underframe seem to read "repacked 7 16 1919" and on the air reservoir "4-19" On the back of the print is stamped "RECEIVED JUL 30 1919 Traffic Department". Geez, the print is 99 years old. Is David claiming that ALL the high-walkway tank cars with Standard Tank Car look-alike underframes were actually built by Pennsylvania Tank Car? Brian Leppert Carson City, NV
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