brake hose brackets, etc.


Daniel A. Mitchell
 

I doubt that any paint will adhere to them ... coat them yes, but stick, no. When they flex the paint flakes off.

I continue to find NO simple way to firmly attach these hoses. No glue known to man will adhere to them. Not ACC, not epoxy, not silicon adhesive, not Gorilla glue, not white glue, not acetate cement, not “shoe-goo" … etc. The darn things just fall off, or pull right out of the dried glue. I run my equipment, and normal vibrations or the most minor contact extracts them. They even fall off cars in storage boxes. The only way I’ve found that works is to insert their shanks into fine metal tubing (hypoderm. stock, or K&S 1/32” or smaller brass tube if you can find it), and crimp the tubes, mechanically locking the air-hose, then glue the tube to the car’s underframe or floor as appropriate. This works dependably.

Use of a metal or plastic bracket for appearance is still an option.

They’re an excellent product, but a real pain to work with.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 13, 2018, at 11:14 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

Do the HiTec hoses hold paint?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mike Smeltzer via Groups.Io" <SooBaldwin@...>
Date: 8/13/18 4:36 PM (GMT-10:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets was Carmer uncoupling levers for C&O hopper

Bruce,

I agree and understand the comment was discussing the bracket. But as the hose was part of the example, I commented on the hose adding to the discussion.  I too use only the HiTech hoses and depending on the instillation, I either use the Kadee bracket or fabricate my own...

Mike Smeltzer 
<snip>


Brian Carlson
 

Weird.  I’ve never had one fall off. I’ve used hi tech brackets, PSC, and scratch built ones. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Aug 13, 2018, at 11:51 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

I doubt that any paint will adhere to them ... coat them yes, but stick, no. When they flex the paint flakes off.

I continue to find NO simple way to firmly attach these hoses. No glue known to man will adhere to them. Not ACC, not epoxy, not silicon adhesive, not Gorilla glue, not white glue, not acetate cement, not “shoe-goo" … etc. The darn things just fall off, or pull right out of the dried glue. I run my equipment, and normal vibrations or the most minor contact extracts them. They even fall off cars in storage boxes. The only way I’ve found that works is to insert their shanks into fine metal tubing (hypoderm. stock, or K&S 1/32” or smaller brass tube if you can find it), and crimp the tubes, mechanically locking the air-hose, then glue the tube to the car’s underframe or floor as appropriate. This works dependably.

Use of a metal or plastic bracket for appearance is still an option.

They’re an excellent product, but a real pain to work with.

D


Nelson Moyer
 

I use canopy cement to glue HI Tech air hoses into Precision Scale brackets. It works.

 

Nelson Moyer.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 10:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets, etc.

 

I doubt that any paint will adhere to them ... coat them yes, but stick, no. When they flex the paint flakes off.

 

I continue to find NO simple way to firmly attach these hoses. No glue known to man will adhere to them. Not ACC, not epoxy, not silicon adhesive, not Gorilla glue, not white glue, not acetate cement, not “shoe-goo" … etc. The darn things just fall off, or pull right out of the dried glue. I run my equipment, and normal vibrations or the most minor contact extracts them. They even fall off cars in storage boxes. The only way I’ve found that works is to insert their shanks into fine metal tubing (hypoderm. stock, or K&S 1/32” or smaller brass tube if you can find it), and crimp the tubes, mechanically locking the air-hose, then glue the tube to the car’s underframe or floor as appropriate. This works dependably.

 

Use of a metal or plastic bracket for appearance is still an option.

 

They’re an excellent product, but a real pain to work with.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Aug 13, 2018, at 11:14 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

 

Do the HiTec hoses hold paint?

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "Mike Smeltzer via Groups.Io" <SooBaldwin@...>

Date: 8/13/18 4:36 PM (GMT-10:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets was Carmer uncoupling levers for C&O hopper

 

Bruce,

 

I agree and understand the comment was discussing the bracket. But as the hose was part of the example, I commented on the hose adding to the discussion.  I too use only the HiTech hoses and depending on the instillation, I either use the Kadee bracket or fabricate my own...

 

Mike Smeltzer 
<snip>

 


Daniel A. Mitchell
 

There are several brands of “canopy cement”, and not all are the same chemically. What brand do you suggest? I’ll certainly give it a try.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 14, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I use canopy cement to glue HI Tech air hoses into Precision Scale brackets. It works.
 
Nelson Moyer.
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 10:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets, etc.
 
I doubt that any paint will adhere to them ... coat them yes, but stick, no. When they flex the paint flakes off.
 
I continue to find NO simple way to firmly attach these hoses. No glue known to man will adhere to them. Not ACC, not epoxy, not silicon adhesive, not Gorilla glue, not white glue, not acetate cement, not “shoe-goo" … etc. The darn things just fall off, or pull right out of the dried glue. I run my equipment, and normal vibrations or the most minor contact extracts them. They even fall off cars in storage boxes. The only way I’ve found that works is to insert their shanks into fine metal tubing (hypoderm. stock, or K&S 1/32” or smaller brass tube if you can find it), and crimp the tubes, mechanically locking the air-hose, then glue the tube to the car’s underframe or floor as appropriate. This works dependably.
 
Use of a metal or plastic bracket for appearance is still an option.
 
They’re an excellent product, but a real pain to work with.
 
Dan Mitchell
==========
On Aug 13, 2018, at 11:14 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:
 
Do the HiTec hoses hold paint?
 
Bill Pardie
 
 
 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 
-------- Original message --------
From: "Mike Smeltzer via Groups.Io" <SooBaldwin@...>
Date: 8/13/18 4:36 PM (GMT-10:00) 
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets was Carmer uncoupling levers for C&O hopper
 
Bruce,
 
I agree and understand the comment was discussing the bracket. But as the hose was part of the example, I commented on the hose adding to the discussion.  I too use only the HiTech hoses and depending on the instillation, I either use the Kadee bracket or fabricate my own...
 
Mike Smeltzer 
<snip>
 



Nelson Moyer
 

Formula 506 Canopy Glue from Pacer. Dries clear, and a little dab will do. You’ll find it at any hobby shop that caters to model airplane enthusiasts.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets, etc.

 

There are several brands of “canopy cement”, and not all are the same chemically. What brand do you suggest? I’ll certainly give it a try.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Aug 14, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

 

I use canopy cement to glue HI Tech air hoses into Precision Scale brackets. It works.

 

Nelson Moyer.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 10:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets, etc.

 

I doubt that any paint will adhere to them ... coat them yes, but stick, no. When they flex the paint flakes off.

 

I continue to find NO simple way to firmly attach these hoses. No glue known to man will adhere to them. Not ACC, not epoxy, not silicon adhesive, not Gorilla glue, not white glue, not acetate cement, not “shoe-goo" … etc. The darn things just fall off, or pull right out of the dried glue. I run my equipment, and normal vibrations or the most minor contact extracts them. They even fall off cars in storage boxes. The only way I’ve found that works is to insert their shanks into fine metal tubing (hypoderm. stock, or K&S 1/32” or smaller brass tube if you can find it), and crimp the tubes, mechanically locking the air-hose, then glue the tube to the car’s underframe or floor as appropriate. This works dependably.

 

Use of a metal or plastic bracket for appearance is still an option.

 

They’re an excellent product, but a real pain to work with.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

On Aug 13, 2018, at 11:14 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

 

Do the HiTec hoses hold paint?

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "Mike Smeltzer via Groups.Io" <SooBaldwin@...>

Date: 8/13/18 4:36 PM (GMT-10:00) 

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets was Carmer uncoupling levers for C&O hopper

 

Bruce,

 

I agree and understand the comment was discussing the bracket. But as the hose was part of the example, I commented on the hose adding to the discussion.  I too use only the HiTech hoses and depending on the instillation, I either use the Kadee bracket or fabricate my own...

 

Mike Smeltzer 
<snip>

 

 


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/14/2018 6:21 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
canopy cement to glue HI Tech air hoses

    I'm finding out that canopy cement works for almost everything.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Since their inception, I have used the HiTech hoses in wholesale numbers for years in a variety of installations and to my knowledge I have never had one fall off, or get dislodged. However, all -all- have been mechanically held in place by PSC hangers, drilled holes in styrene blocks, etc., secured with tiny drops of Barge cement or thick ACC. The only cements that I know are likely to hold these soft rubber supple hoses in place for ordinary use without mechanical enclosure are the contact cements, notably Barge Cement. ACC will not do it.

The PSC brake hose hangers are beautiful, but can be a bit frustrating in the drilling-out the hole for the hose itself. I made a crude wood jig to hold the hangers vertically in a vise so that I could easily drill them out to #74, the diameter th beyondat I found best to accommodate the HiTech hoses. Starting out with a #79 pilot hole as Nelson Moyer has suggested, is indeed very good practice. There is an ample dimple to help with centering. I usually will drill out a dozen or more hangers at a time, taking no more than about ten minutes or so in the process. Using a drill press will save a lot of drills- for a variety of reasons.

A side note: The PSC hangers came about directly from the conversations and expressed needs from those on this very list. It was simply amazing then (and now) that not a single HO brake hose hanger was available beyond the esoteric Kadee hangers designed for their fine log cars, and the hangers included in the CalScale kits.

Dennis Storzek then drew up, machined, and generously provided the fine pattern for the PSC casting that we now enjoy. I negotiated with PSC for development of the castings and the resulting agreement to include the part into their standard line.

Mont Switzer and I underwrote minimum production (taking in return- pleasure and product!). I tried every rhetorical trick I knew to persuade PSC to core out the hole for the hose itself, but they felt that it simply was too small in that location to be feasible. The hangers were at the time designed to accept the the brass PSC hoses, i.e. 0.020” #76, but with ordinary care, they readily accommodated the slightly large hole for the excellent HiTech hoses. They are a great combination, and the barely crossed facing hoses look terrific (that is, terrific!) when cars ALSO have scale distances between facing striker plates (29” Accumate Proto -31”Kadee Scale), this -in turn- only enabled by scale couplers.

This lovely scene of scale relationships is easily destroyed by the interfering presence of the magnetic glad hands, and in this regard, I clip these off flush, each and every one of them.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Quarryville, PA


Schleigh Mike
 

Thank you Denny, Dennis, and Mont---

Nice legacy for the future!

Regards from Grove City, Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018, 11:00:11 AM EDT, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:


Since their inception, I have used the HiTech hoses in wholesale numbers for years in a variety of installations and to my knowledge I have never had one fall off, or get dislodged. However, all  -all- have been mechanically held in place by PSC hangers, drilled holes in  styrene blocks, etc., secured with tiny drops of Barge cement or thick ACC.  The only cements that I know are likely to  hold these soft rubber supple hoses in place for ordinary use  without mechanical enclosure are the contact cements, notably Barge Cement. ACC will not do it.

The PSC brake hose hangers are beautiful, but can be a bit frustrating in the drilling-out the hole for the hose itself.  I made a crude wood jig to hold the hangers vertically in a vise so that I could easily drill them out to #74, the diameter th beyondat I found best to accommodate the HiTech hoses.  Starting out with a #79 pilot hole as Nelson Moyer has suggested, is indeed very good practice.  There is an ample dimple to help with centering.  I usually will drill out a dozen or more hangers at a time, taking no more than about ten minutes or so in the process. Using a drill press will save a lot of drills- for a variety of reasons.

A side note:  The PSC hangers came about directly from the conversations and expressed needs from those on this very list.  It was simply amazing then (and now) that not a single HO brake hose hanger was available  beyond the esoteric Kadee hangers designed for their fine log cars, and the hangers included in the CalScale kits.

Dennis Storzek then drew up, machined, and generously provided the fine pattern for the PSC casting that we now enjoy.  I negotiated with PSC for development of the castings and the resulting agreement to include the part into their standard line.

Mont Switzer and I underwrote minimum production (taking in return-  pleasure and product!).  I tried every rhetorical  trick I knew to persuade PSC to core out the hole for the hose itself, but they felt that it simply was too small in that location to be feasible.  The hangers were at the time designed to accept the the brass PSC hoses, i.e. 0.020” #76, but with ordinary care,  they readily accommodated the slightly large hole for the excellent HiTech hoses. They are a great combination, and the barely crossed facing hoses look terrific (that is, terrific!) when cars ALSO have scale distances between facing striker plates (29” Accumate Proto -31”Kadee Scale), this -in turn- only enabled by scale couplers.

This lovely scene of scale relationships is easily destroyed by the interfering presence of the magnetic glad hands, and in this regard, I clip these off flush, each and every one of them.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Quarryville, PA




Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 08:00 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
Dennis Storzek then drew up, machined, and generously provided the fine pattern for the PSC casting that we now enjoy. I negotiated with PSC for development of the castings and the resulting agreement to include the part into their standard line.
Thanks for the kind words, Doc. I might mention, one of the points of resistance to adding a part to a line like PSC, or cast white metal for that matter, is they need more than one pattern to go into production. Yes, they CAN work from a single pattern, replicating it in house by casting single parts until they have enough "sub masters", but it's a lot more work, and the finished parts will have an extra generation of casting shrinkage, if that matters (not that it really does on these parts). I think I was able to help things along by providing ten or twelve complete patterns, which eased the pain of going right to production.

Just food for thought for anyone else contemplating commissioning a new part.

Dennis Storzek


Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

Formula 506 Canopy Glue from Pacer. Dries clear, and a little dab will do. You’ll find it at any hobby shop that caters to model airplane enthusiasts.

   Um, no, it's actually Formula 560. And nowadays, progressive model railroad shops carry it too.

Tony Thompson




Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/14/2018 9:22 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:

   Um, no, it's actually Formula 560. And nowadays, progressive model railroad shops carry it too.

And I'm not sure which is the latest but I have one bottle, green label from ZAP canopy glue with formula 560 under that.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Tony Thompson
 

Jon Miller wrote:

And I'm not sure which is the latest but I have one bottle, green label from ZAP canopy glue with formula 560 under that.


         Pacer Technology sells canopy glue under both the Pacer and Zap names. Same stuff. For some background, including the foregoing observation and photos of glue bottles, you might like to read my post about canopy glue, which is at this link:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Nelson Moyer
 

Ah yes, my dyslexia strikes again. Thank you for the correction.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 11:23 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets, etc.

 

Nelson Moyer wrote:



Formula 506 Canopy Glue from Pacer. Dries clear, and a little dab will do. You’ll find it at any hobby shop that caters to model airplane enthusiasts.

 

   Um, no, it's actually Formula 560. And nowadays, progressive model railroad shops carry it too.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Jack Burgess
 

First, I have airbrushed the air hoses with Floquil paint and not problems. Also, I have been using Formula 560 Canopy Glue and have never lost a HiTech air hose.

I thought Denny's description of drilling out the hole for the air hose in the P{SC bracket was way too involved until I got out the small piece of paper that I keep with my air hoses which reminds me how to do it each time. Keep in mind that I have a small drill press which helps but it reads:
______
Use needle nose pliers to insert bracket in the side of machinist vise to hold it perpendicular. Hold a piece of wood under the drilling area to keep bracket from bending.

Hole in air hose bracket:
1. Drill dimple with #77 carbide drill bit but don’t drill through [the carbide drill bit won't flex]
2. Drill through with #77 regular drill bit
3. Finish by drilling through with #74 drill bit

Hole for bracket in bottom of car is #73.
______

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Denny Anspach
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] brake hose brackets, etc.

Since their inception, I have used the HiTech hoses in wholesale numbers for years in a variety of installations and to my knowledge I have never had one fall off, or get dislodged. However, all -all- have been mechanically held in place by PSC hangers, drilled holes in styrene blocks, etc., secured with tiny drops of Barge cement or thick ACC. The only cements that I know are likely to hold these soft rubber supple hoses in place for ordinary use without mechanical enclosure are the contact cements, notably Barge Cement. ACC will not do it.

The PSC brake hose hangers are beautiful, but can be a bit frustrating in the drilling-out the hole for the hose itself. I made a crude wood jig to hold the hangers vertically in a vise so that I could easily drill them out to #74, the diameter th beyondat I found best to accommodate the HiTech hoses. Starting out with a #79 pilot hole as Nelson Moyer has suggested, is indeed very good practice. There is an ample dimple to help with centering. I usually will drill out a dozen or more hangers at a time, taking no more than about ten minutes or so in the process. Using a drill press will save a lot of drills- for a variety of reasons.

A side note: The PSC hangers came about directly from the conversations and expressed needs from those on this very list. It was simply amazing then (and now) that not a single HO brake hose hanger was available beyond the esoteric Kadee hangers designed for their fine log cars, and the hangers included in the CalScale kits.

Dennis Storzek then drew up, machined, and generously provided the fine pattern for the PSC casting that we now enjoy. I negotiated with PSC for development of the castings and the resulting agreement to include the part into their standard line.

Mont Switzer and I underwrote minimum production (taking in return- pleasure and product!). I tried every rhetorical trick I knew to persuade PSC to core out the hole for the hose itself, but they felt that it simply was too small in that location to be feasible. The hangers were at the time designed to accept the the brass PSC hoses, i.e. 0.020” #76, but with ordinary care, they readily accommodated the slightly large hole for the excellent HiTech hoses. They are a great combination, and the barely crossed facing hoses look terrific (that is, terrific!) when cars ALSO have scale distances between facing striker plates (29” Accumate Proto -31”Kadee Scale), this -in turn- only enabled by scale couplers.

This lovely scene of scale relationships is easily destroyed by the interfering presence of the magnetic glad hands, and in this regard, I clip these off flush, each and every one of them.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Quarryville, PA


Tim O'Connor
 


There are lots of great adhesives on the market. I bought some Elmer's "China
and Glass Cement
" to repair a broken ceramic cup. It went on watery thin - thinner
than canopy cement - and quickly set rock hard, even sealing up cracks and now
the cup will hold hot liquids perfectly. It does not dry perfectly clear like Canopy
cement, but it's a great, strong adhesive, and can be painted over.

Tim O'


  I'm finding out that canopy cement works for almost everything.
 J
on Miller



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts