1937 shot at Ft. Belvoir


Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

This is an amazing photo!  From the Library of Congress, this is the railhead at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, 1937.  The US Army railroad there interchanged with the RF&P.

The caption reads “Fort Belvoir troops proceed to flood area. Fort Belvoir, Va. Company B of the 5th Regiment of Engineers, stationed at this post a short distance from the Capitol, mobilized complete campaign equipment today and prepared to entrain immediately for the devastated flood area near Louisville, Ky. in this photo one of the boats to be used is shown being put aboard the train”

For the railroad fan, the flat cars appear to be 2 PRR F30A cars and a PRR FM. Notice the B&O “mansard roof” double door M-27b/Fcar in the right distance, and what appear to be 2 PRR B60B baggage cars, and potentially a B60 in the back-middle of the photo. I believe that every one of these cars is/was available in HO scale

For the military fan, get a load of that Mack half-track crane! And of course, the engineering pontoons.  But that Mack…. too cool! Might anyone have any more information on the Mack? Photos?

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/21/2018 12:13 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
This is an amazing photo!  From the Library of Congress, this is the railhead at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, 1937.  The US Army railroad there interchanged with the RF&P.

    Interesting.  Looks like all the officers are wearing riding boots.  Was that normal for the corp of engineers?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


spsalso
 

All officers wore "riding boots".  That way, when they fell face down, you could still tell they were an officer, and take appropriate action.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


james murrie
 

When the Ohio River flooded it put a lot of tracks under water.  One result of this was a postponement of the 2nd of the "gold trains" moving bullion to the new depository at Ft Knox.
Jim Murrie


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Officer riding boots? : More probably they were “puttees”, strapped leather leggings that encased officer's trousers similar to riding britches, and which which fit over the tops of leather shoes. I always assumed that this was a rank-thing that hung over when officers were all on horseback.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/23/2018 9:30 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
Officer riding boots?  :  More probably they were “puttees”, strapped leather leggings that encased officer's trousers similar to riding britches, and which which fit over the tops of leather shoes. I always assumed that this was a rank-thing that hung over when officers were all on horseback.

    Could be.  I was familiar with my fathers boots (which I like to put on when I was little).  He was field artillery at VMI for a couple of years, in that time frame, and he had them as artillery was horse drawn (in his time).  I had never heard of puttees.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Ray Breyer
 

The only puttees I see in the photo are being worn by a single staff sergeant with his hands in his pockets, watching the pontoons being loaded. All of the officers (and at least one warrant) are wearing actual riding boots, while most of the enlisted ranks are wearing "shoepac" overboots.

Remember that 1937 was STILL the era of the horse-powered Army, and that any good officer knew how to ride well. Riding boots were a normal part of an officer's uniform, especially that close to DC.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Thursday, August 23, 2018, 11:30:51 AM CDT, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:


Officer riding boots?  :  More probably they were “puttees”, strapped leather leggings that encased officer's trousers similar to riding britches, and which which fit over the tops of leather shoes. I always assumed that this was a rank-thing that hung over when officers were all on horseback.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA




rwitt_2000
 

There is also a C&O 40-ft double door box car next to the last PRR baggage/express car. I believe it or a similar model once was done by Sunshine.

What is the photographer fetching; his lens cap?

Bob Witt


Bruce Smith
 

​I agree with Ray's assessment. These officers (and there are a pack of them!) are wearing "field boots" or "tall boots" which are standard equipment for the officer corps, regardless of assignment. In addition, note that the uniforms and particularly the hats, have not changed since "the great war". This will all change circa 1942.


BTW, at least some of the folks working and supervising may have been military railroad operating men.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Breyer via Groups.Io <rtbsvrr69@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 1937 shot at Ft. Belvoir
 
The only puttees I see in the photo are being worn by a single staff sergeant with his hands in his pockets, watching the pontoons being loaded. All of the officers (and at least one warrant) are wearing actual riding boots, while most of the enlisted ranks are wearing "shoepac" overboots.

Remember that 1937 was STILL the era of the horse-powered Army, and that any good officer knew how to ride well. Riding boots were a normal part of an officer's uniform, especially that close to DC.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Thursday, August 23, 2018, 11:30:51 AM CDT, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:


Officer riding boots?  :  More probably they were “puttees”, strapped leather leggings that encased officer's trousers similar to riding britches, and which which fit over the tops of leather shoes. I always assumed that this was a rank-thing that hung over when officers were all on horseback.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA




Bruce Smith
 

​Bob,


As I noted in my original post, that is a B&O (not C&O) M-27b or M-27F, and yes, Sunshine offered that car in HO in resin.


Regards,

Bruce 

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io <rwitt_2000@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 12:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 1937 shot at Ft. Belvoir
 
There is also a C&O 40-ft double door box car next to the last PRR baggage/express car. I believe it or a similar model once was done by Sunshine.

What is the photographer fetching; his lens cap?

Bob Witt


rwitt_2000
 

Bruce,

Buried way, way in the background, there is a C&O double-door box car coupled to a baggage/express car.

The B&O box car is a M-27b. It looks like #295477 with double door. Can't determine if it still has is Evans auto loader.

I appear to be wrong about any kit available for the C&O DD box car.

Bob


Bruce Smith
 

AH!  Now I see what your are talking about!

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Aug 23, 2018, at 2:11 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Bruce,

Buried way, way in the background, there is a C&O double-door box car coupled to a baggage/express car.

The B&O box car is a M-27b. It looks like #295477 with double door. Can't determine if it still has is Evans auto loader.

I appear to be wrong about any kit available for the C&O DD box car.

Bob


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bob and Friends,

F&C offers a 1930 40' C&O automobile boxcar as their kit 6770. Sorry, I no longer have the original photo to compare.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 8/23/18 3:11 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io wrote:
Bruce,

Buried way, way in the background, there is a C&O double-door box car coupled to a baggage/express car.

The B&O box car is a M-27b. It looks like #295477 with double door. Can't determine if it still has is Evans auto loader.

I appear to be wrong about any kit available for the C&O DD box car.

Bob


rwitt_2000
 

Garth,

It may be this one or something similar.

Bob Witt


Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Those stupid “leggings” were still in use during WWII. Most by then were canvas not leather. Both USA Army and Navy wore them. Among other things, I’m a sometimes military reenactor in the crew of a WWII M-18 “Hellcat” tank destroyer (hey! It runs on "tracks”), and we usually wear them for historical accuracy.



The darn things are a real “pain” to put on since they lace on the OUTSIDE of the ankle (a leg does NOT bend like that!). They were in common use by both officers and enlisted men in many armies (with variations). They do provide good support for the ankles, and keep the bottoms of the pant-legs from getting caught in things. They also provide for “blousing” the pant-legs, which was quite stylish in some circles.

So, any depiction of USA (or some foreign) military from before WWI to after WWII may well find these being worn. Tall boots were also worn, depending on period, unit preferences, rank, and other reasons.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 23, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote: 

Officer riding boots?  :  More probably they were “puttees”, strapped leather leggings that encased officer's trousers similar to riding britches, and which which fit over the tops of leather shoes. I always assumed that this was a rank-thing that hung over when officers were all on horseback.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA






Jack Mullen
 

Bruce,
We can see at least one significant postwar change in uniforms here. Field jackets are the 1926 pattern with rolled collar and lapels, worn over shirt and tie, instead of the WW1 high collar jacket buttoned to the neck. Speaking of jackets, there's quite a variety of jackets and coats here.

As to the Mack AC, it has the earlier style radiator and it a reasonable assumption that at least the basic truck dates to WW1. I don't know whether the Army ordered any equipped with cranes originally, or whether this is a later conversion, as was popular on the civilian side. There were at least a couple different aftermarket halftrack conversions available in the '20s.  The one here is a Christie. Here's a survivor, the only photo I can find on the web right now:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/494762709039769390/
There might be a photo and brief discussion in John Montville's book "Bulldog", but my copy seems to still be in a moving carton in the future layout room. Oh well.

Jack Mullen


Jim Gates
 

To pick a different nit, US Army Engineers spell (and sometimes pronounce) it "ponton".

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 8/23/18, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io <rtbsvrr69=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 1937 shot at Ft. Belvoir
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Thursday, August 23, 2018, 11:50 AM

The only puttees I see in the photo are being worn by a single staff sergeant with his hands in his pockets, watching the pontoons being loaded. All of the officers (and at least one warrant) are wearing actual riding boots, while most of the enlisted ranks are wearing "shoepac" overboots.
Remember that 1937 was STILL the era of the horse-powered Army, and that any good officer knew how to ride well. Riding boots were a normal part of an officer's uniform, especially that close to DC.
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL