correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
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vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
I have two CB&Q SM-18 stock cars needing new trucks for acceptable rolling ability. The current trucks are Andrews which I guess are entirely accurate for the cars. But would it also be accurate to equip one car with a different type of trucks? I just like to see some kind of difference on several cars of the same class. The cars represent a pre-WWII version with AB brakes. Many thanks for any information Johannes
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Nelson Moyer
It depends upon what date(s) you intend to represent. SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars were built between 1926 and 1928, and they originally received arch bar trucks, but they received Andrews trucks before the arch bar ban for interchange. Since your cars have AB brakes, they would also have Andrews trucks. All photos of SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars I’ve seen show Andrews trucks. Later classes of CB&Q stock cars got Barber double truss lateral motion, Barber S-2A, ASF A-3 ride control, or Scullin self-aligning spring plankless trucks, but here is no evidence that I’m aware of where these trucks were ever used on SM-18 or SM-18A stock cars, which were retired in the late 1960s and early 1970s. A few cars lasted into the BN era. It also depends upon how strictly you wish to model the prototype. If you’re fudging other things, you may use whatever trucks you wish to use without regard for the prototype. If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? I have 24 SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars at present, and all roll very well on Tahoe Model Works Andrews trucks. Bottom line for you is the decision whether or not to be true to the prototype, or freelance.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 2:52 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
Hello friends,
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vapeurchapelon
Hello Nelson,
MANY THANKS for your comprehensive reply! So I will use Andrews trucks on both cars, definitely. I am modeling the early POST-war years (I am sorry for the mistakenly written pre-war in my original post!) - the reweigh date on the cars is 8-48.
>> If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? <<
No, not really. If I model an anomly it at least must have the proof to be accurate - which in this case wouldn't be.
Many thanks again!
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 14:51 Uhr
Von: "Nelson Moyer" <npmoyer@...> An: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?) It depends upon what date(s) you intend to represent. SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars were built between 1926 and 1928, and they originally received arch bar trucks, but they received Andrews trucks before the arch bar ban for interchange. Since your cars have AB brakes, they would also have Andrews trucks. All photos of SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars I’ve seen show Andrews trucks. Later classes of CB&Q stock cars got Barber double truss lateral motion, Barber S-2A, ASF A-3 ride control, or Scullin self-aligning spring plankless trucks, but here is no evidence that I’m aware of where these trucks were ever used on SM-18 or SM-18A stock cars, which were retired in the late 1960s and early 1970s. A few cars lasted into the BN era. It also depends upon how strictly you wish to model the prototype. If you’re fudging other things, you may use whatever trucks you wish to use without regard for the prototype. If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? I have 24 SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars at present, and all roll very well on Tahoe Model Works Andrews trucks. Bottom line for you is the decision whether or not to be true to the prototype, or freelance.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 2:52 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
Hello friends,
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If you can’t find the Tahoe trucks Nelson mentioned, look at the Accurail Andrews trucks. They are a very nice looking, inexpensive and when equipped with wheelsets from Intermoutain or Reboxx they roll very well.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:07 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
Hello Nelson,
MANY THANKS for your comprehensive reply! So I will use Andrews trucks on both cars, definitely. I am modeling the early POST-war years (I am sorry for the mistakenly written pre-war in my original post!) - the reweigh date on the cars is 8-48.
>> If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? <<
No, not really. If I model an anomly it at least must have the proof to be accurate - which in this case wouldn't be.
Many thanks again!
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 14:51 Uhr It depends upon what date(s) you intend to represent. SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars were built between 1926 and 1928, and they originally received arch bar trucks, but they received Andrews trucks before the arch bar ban for interchange. Since your cars have AB brakes, they would also have Andrews trucks. All photos of SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars I’ve seen show Andrews trucks. Later classes of CB&Q stock cars got Barber double truss lateral motion, Barber S-2A, ASF A-3 ride control, or Scullin self-aligning spring plankless trucks, but here is no evidence that I’m aware of where these trucks were ever used on SM-18 or SM-18A stock cars, which were retired in the late 1960s and early 1970s. A few cars lasted into the BN era. It also depends upon how strictly you wish to model the prototype. If you’re fudging other things, you may use whatever trucks you wish to use without regard for the prototype. If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? I have 24 SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars at present, and all roll very well on Tahoe Model Works Andrews trucks. Bottom line for you is the decision whether or not to be true to the prototype, or freelance.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
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vapeurchapelon
Hello Doug,
many thanks for your note. Westerfield has them listed, when I am at home I will try to order them.
Yes, Accurail trucks usually are nicely detailed and run very well, but unfortunately the brake shoes are not in gauge with the wheels, so there would be some work involved.
Many greetings
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 15:10 Uhr
Von: "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@...> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?) If you can’t find the Tahoe trucks Nelson mentioned, look at the Accurail Andrews trucks. They are a very nice looking, inexpensive and when equipped with wheelsets from Intermoutain or Reboxx they roll very well.
Doug Harding
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:07 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
Hello Nelson,
MANY THANKS for your comprehensive reply! So I will use Andrews trucks on both cars, definitely. I am modeling the early POST-war years (I am sorry for the mistakenly written pre-war in my original post!) - the reweigh date on the cars is 8-48.
>> If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? <<
No, not really. If I model an anomly it at least must have the proof to be accurate - which in this case wouldn't be.
Many thanks again!
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 14:51 Uhr It depends upon what date(s) you intend to represent. SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars were built between 1926 and 1928, and they originally received arch bar trucks, but they received Andrews trucks before the arch bar ban for interchange. Since your cars have AB brakes, they would also have Andrews trucks. All photos of SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars I’ve seen show Andrews trucks. Later classes of CB&Q stock cars got Barber double truss lateral motion, Barber S-2A, ASF A-3 ride control, or Scullin self-aligning spring plankless trucks, but here is no evidence that I’m aware of where these trucks were ever used on SM-18 or SM-18A stock cars, which were retired in the late 1960s and early 1970s. A few cars lasted into the BN era. It also depends upon how strictly you wish to model the prototype. If you’re fudging other things, you may use whatever trucks you wish to use without regard for the prototype. If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? I have 24 SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars at present, and all roll very well on Tahoe Model Works Andrews trucks. Bottom line for you is the decision whether or not to be true to the prototype, or freelance.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
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Bill Welch
Just my opinion but although Accurail Andrew are nicely detailed I think they are too long and on a model they are too big, especially if you have a car next to it with the Tahoe truck. On a stock car they look out of proportion. Again just my opinion.
Bill Welch
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Nelson Moyer
To follow up on TMW trucks, it is possible to buy the trucks without wheel sets at $3.75 per pair and install your own wheels. I use Intermountain wheels. TMW doesn’t list that option on the order form, but just cross out the $8.35 per pair and specify that you want just the side frames. Shipping is a very reasonable $3 .50 per order.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:22 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
Hello Doug,
many thanks for your note. Westerfield has them listed, when I am at home I will try to order them. Yes, Accurail trucks usually are nicely detailed and run very well, but unfortunately the brake shoes are not in gauge with the wheels, so there would be some work involved.
Many greetings
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 15:10 Uhr If you can’t find the Tahoe trucks Nelson mentioned, look at the Accurail Andrews trucks. They are a very nice looking, inexpensive and when equipped with wheelsets from Intermoutain or Reboxx they roll very well.
Doug Harding
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello Nelson,
MANY THANKS for your comprehensive reply! So I will use Andrews trucks on both cars, definitely. I am modeling the early POST-war years (I am sorry for the mistakenly written pre-war in my original post!) - the reweigh date on the cars is 8-48.
>> If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? <<
No, not really. If I model an anomly it at least must have the proof to be accurate - which in this case wouldn't be.
Many thanks again!
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018
um 14:51 Uhr It depends upon what date(s) you intend to represent. SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars were built between 1926 and 1928, and they originally received arch bar trucks, but they received Andrews trucks before the arch bar ban for interchange. Since your cars have AB brakes, they would also have Andrews trucks. All photos of SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars I’ve seen show Andrews trucks. Later classes of CB&Q stock cars got Barber double truss lateral motion, Barber S-2A, ASF A-3 ride control, or Scullin self-aligning spring plankless trucks, but here is no evidence that I’m aware of where these trucks were ever used on SM-18 or SM-18A stock cars, which were retired in the late 1960s and early 1970s. A few cars lasted into the BN era. It also depends upon how strictly you wish to model the prototype. If you’re fudging other things, you may use whatever trucks you wish to use without regard for the prototype. If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? I have 24 SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars at present, and all roll very well on Tahoe Model Works Andrews trucks. Bottom line for you is the decision whether or not to be true to the prototype, or freelance.
Nelson Moyer
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
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brianleppert@att.net
Tahoe Model Works sells trucks without wheelsets for $4.50 per pair. Westerfield's price is probably less. When ordering wheel-less trucks from TMW, $3.50 will cover shipping, but any orders for trucks with wheelsets will need $4.00 for shipping.
InterMountain supplies wheelsets to Tahoe Model Works. Brian Leppert Tahoe Model Works Carson City, NV please visit www.resincarworks.com/tahoe.htm
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vapeurchapelon
Many thanks, Nelson,
but
>> Shipping is a very reasonable $3 .50 per order. <<
this will be a little more to Germany ;-)
Furthermore very likely no difference either with or without wheelsets. Since I don't have (useable) spare wheelsets I have to order with them. I intended to ask what's wrong with the TAHOE wheelsets, but Brian Leppert thankfully already mentioned that the trucks have Intermountain wheelsets.
Many greetings
Johannes, also considering Kadee wheelsets because of their ribbed back side, which very likely were used on these stock cars...
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 19:33 Uhr
Von: "Nelson Moyer" <npmoyer@...> An: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?) To follow up on TMW trucks, it is possible to buy the trucks without wheel sets at $3.75 per pair and install your own wheels. I use Intermountain wheels. TMW doesn’t list that option on the order form, but just cross out the $8.35 per pair and specify that you want just the side frames. Shipping is a very reasonable $3 .50 per order.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:22 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
Hello Doug,
many thanks for your note. Westerfield has them listed, when I am at home I will try to order them. Yes, Accurail trucks usually are nicely detailed and run very well, but unfortunately the brake shoes are not in gauge with the wheels, so there would be some work involved.
Many greetings
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 15:10 Uhr If you can’t find the Tahoe trucks Nelson mentioned, look at the Accurail Andrews trucks. They are a very nice looking, inexpensive and when equipped with wheelsets from Intermoutain or Reboxx they roll very well.
Doug Harding
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello Nelson,
MANY THANKS for your comprehensive reply! So I will use Andrews trucks on both cars, definitely. I am modeling the early POST-war years (I am sorry for the mistakenly written pre-war in my original post!) - the reweigh date on the cars is 8-48.
>> If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? <<
No, not really. If I model an anomly it at least must have the proof to be accurate - which in this case wouldn't be.
Many thanks again!
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 14:51 Uhr It depends upon what date(s) you intend to represent. SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars were built between 1926 and 1928, and they originally received arch bar trucks, but they received Andrews trucks before the arch bar ban for interchange. Since your cars have AB brakes, they would also have Andrews trucks. All photos of SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars I’ve seen show Andrews trucks. Later classes of CB&Q stock cars got Barber double truss lateral motion, Barber S-2A, ASF A-3 ride control, or Scullin self-aligning spring plankless trucks, but here is no evidence that I’m aware of where these trucks were ever used on SM-18 or SM-18A stock cars, which were retired in the late 1960s and early 1970s. A few cars lasted into the BN era. It also depends upon how strictly you wish to model the prototype. If you’re fudging other things, you may use whatever trucks you wish to use without regard for the prototype. If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? I have 24 SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars at present, and all roll very well on Tahoe Model Works Andrews trucks. Bottom line for you is the decision whether or not to be true to the prototype, or freelance.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
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vapeurchapelon
Interesting point, Bill,
many thanks. Btw, what do you thingk about Kadees HGC trucks, regarding their proportions? For my PFE R70-2 reefers I used these Kadee 70ton trucks because their springs (three outside) match the prototype photos. These are my first Kadee HGC trucks, and I was surprised how big - > broad they are. Looking good with the large cars, just wondering.
Many greetings
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 16:12 Uhr
Von: "Bill Welch" <fgexbill@...> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?) Just my opinion but although Accurail Andrew are nicely detailed I think they are too long and on a model they are too big, especially if you have a car next to it with the Tahoe truck. On a stock car they look out of proportion. Again just my opinion.
Bill Welch
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Dave Parker
Johannes:
The Kadee wheels have ~1.018-inch axles, versus ~1.005 for the Intermountains. I don't the TMW trucks will roll very well without modification if you install Kadee wheels. Apologies for the non-metric units; I was in hurry here. Dave Parker Riverside, CA
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Nelson Moyer
Johannes, Ich weis nicht das Sie im Deutschland leben. That’s about all the German I remember so time to switch to English. I buy the side frames because it’s cheaper than buying trucks with wheel sets when I can buy Intermountain wheels by the 100 pack at discount prices. I appreciate Brian clarifying the prices, as there have probably been increases since I last ordered.
With respect to ribbed back wheels, they were indeed used, and Walthers sells them, however they are not turned steel, and they will accumulate gunk and spread it around on the rails. My experience with Athearn, Kadee, etc. sintered wheels is poor regarding keeping wheels and track clean.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:41 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] correct trucks on CB&Q SM-18 stock cars (?)
Many thanks, Nelson,
but
>> Shipping is a very reasonable $3 .50 per order. <<
this will be a little more to Germany ;-) Furthermore very likely no difference either with or without wheelsets. Since I don't have (useable) spare wheelsets I have to order with them. I intended to ask what's wrong with the TAHOE wheelsets, but Brian Leppert thankfully already mentioned that the trucks have Intermountain wheelsets.
Many greetings
Johannes, also considering Kadee wheelsets because of their ribbed back side, which very likely were used on these stock cars...
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 um 19:33 Uhr To follow up on TMW trucks, it is possible to buy the trucks without wheel sets at $3.75 per pair and install your own wheels. I use Intermountain wheels. TMW doesn’t list that option on the order form, but just cross out the $8.35 per pair and specify that you want just the side frames. Shipping is a very reasonable $3 .50 per order.
Nelson Moyer
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello Doug,
many thanks for your note. Westerfield has them listed, when I am at home I will try to order them. Yes, Accurail trucks usually are nicely detailed and run very well, but unfortunately the brake shoes are not in gauge with the wheels, so there would be some work involved.
Many greetings
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018
um 15:10 Uhr If you can’t find the Tahoe trucks Nelson mentioned, look at the Accurail Andrews trucks. They are a very nice looking, inexpensive and when equipped with wheelsets from Intermoutain or Reboxx they roll very well.
Doug Harding
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello Nelson,
MANY THANKS for your comprehensive reply! So I will use Andrews trucks on both cars, definitely. I am modeling the early POST-war years (I am sorry for the mistakenly written pre-war in my original post!) - the reweigh date on the cars is 8-48.
>> If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? <<
No, not really. If I model an anomly it at least must have the proof to be accurate - which in this case wouldn't be.
Many thanks again!
Johannes
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. September 2018
um 14:51 Uhr It depends upon what date(s) you intend to represent. SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars were built between 1926 and 1928, and they originally received arch bar trucks, but they received Andrews trucks before the arch bar ban for interchange. Since your cars have AB brakes, they would also have Andrews trucks. All photos of SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars I’ve seen show Andrews trucks. Later classes of CB&Q stock cars got Barber double truss lateral motion, Barber S-2A, ASF A-3 ride control, or Scullin self-aligning spring plankless trucks, but here is no evidence that I’m aware of where these trucks were ever used on SM-18 or SM-18A stock cars, which were retired in the late 1960s and early 1970s. A few cars lasted into the BN era. It also depends upon how strictly you wish to model the prototype. If you’re fudging other things, you may use whatever trucks you wish to use without regard for the prototype. If any SM-18 or SM-18A cars got any of these other trucks, it would be an anomaly, and with only two cars, do you really want to model an anomaly? I have 24 SM-18 and SM-18A stock cars at present, and all roll very well on Tahoe Model Works Andrews trucks. Bottom line for you is the decision whether or not to be true to the prototype, or freelance.
Nelson Moyer
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
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Charlie Vlk
Johannes- AFAIK the SM18 stock cars retained their Andrews trucks throughout their service lives. I photographed cars at Clyde that were being used to haul ties and hay c.1968-9 and they still had the Andrews trucks. Charlie Vlk
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
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