Retainer valves


Pierre Oliver
 

This may be slightly beyond the era of this group, but here goes.
I'm looking at a CNR 40' boxcar, built 1957.
I do not see a retainer valve or line on the B end of the car.
Were retainers done away with on the B end of boxcars in the later half of the '50s?

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Tim O'Connor
 


Pierre, definitely NOT. But the retainers moved to the sides of the cars (new cars
and modernized cars) when running boards on house cars were eliminated in 1966.

Tim O'Connor



This may be slightly beyond the era of this group, but here goes.
I'm looking at a CNR 40' boxcar, built 1957.
I do not see a retainer valve or line on the B end of the car.
Were retainers done away with on the B end of boxcars in the later half of the '50s?

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Pierre Oliver
 

So where's the  retainer in this image?

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 9/27/18 4:39 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Pierre, definitely NOT. But the retainers moved to the sides of the cars (new cars
and modernized cars) when running boards on house cars were eliminated in 1966.

Tim O'Connor



This may be slightly beyond the era of this group, but here goes.
I'm looking at a CNR 40' boxcar, built 1957.
I do not see a retainer valve or line on the B end of the car.
Were retainers done away with on the B end of boxcars in the later half of the '50s?

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Wow, Pierre, must you always misunderstand everything?

  "Were retainers done away with on the B end of boxcars in the later half of the '50s?"

The answer is NO

If you had asked "were SOME box cars built without retainers on their ends?"

Then the answer would be YES





So where's the  retainer in this image?

Attachments:

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Pierre Oliver
 

You know, Tim, you could have very easily found a way to express that without coming across like an a**hat.
As it turns out I just found another photo that does show the retainer line, the photo I was first looking at is perfectly aligned to hide the retainer line behind the brake rod.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 9/27/18 6:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Wow, Pierre, must you always misunderstand everything?

  "Were retainers done away with on the B end of boxcars in the later half of the '50s?"

The answer is NO

If you had asked "were SOME box cars built without retainers on their ends?"

Then the answer would be YES





So where's the  retainer in this image?

Attachments:

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Gary McMills
 

Isn't the retainer located near where the triple valve located?

still a student,

Gary McMills


 

On 2018-09-27 18:06, Pierre Oliver wrote:

You know, Tim, you could have very easily found a way to express that without coming across like an a**hat.
As it turns out I just found another photo that does show the retainer line, the photo I was first looking at is perfectly aligned to hide the retainer line behind the brake rod.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 9/27/18 6:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Wow, Pierre, must you always misunderstand everything?

  "Were retainers done away with on the B end of boxcars in the later half of the '50s?"

The answer is NO

If you had asked "were SOME box cars built without retainers on their ends?"

Then the answer would be YES





So where's the  retainer in this image?

Attachments:

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 

Pierre

you mean like yourself? i didn't call you any names. in fact, I never have.

YOU could have expressed yourself much better than

  "SO where's the retainer..."

as if I were claiming there is a retainer on the end.

I just believed your claim that there was no retainer. My bad, I guess, in
your way of thinking.




You know, Tim, you could have very easily found a way to express that without coming across like an a**hat.
As it turns out I just found another photo that does show the retainer line, the photo I was first looking at is perfectly aligned to hide the retainer line behind the brake rod.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com

www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 9/27/18 6:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Wow, Pierre, must you always misunderstand everything?

  "Were retainers done away with on the B end of boxcars in the later half of the '50s?"

The answer is NO

If you had asked "were SOME box cars built without retainers on their ends?"

Then the answer would be YES





So where's the  retainer in this image?

Attachments:

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 

Gary

The retainer line is a small diameter pipe from the AB valve with the
retainer on its end. Retainers can be mounted anywhere, but they need to
be easily accessible to train crews - and maybe they were mounted high up
on cars for security or safety reasons, I don't know.

But when low mounted brake wheels were introduced, new cars were built with
the retainers directly accessible under the sill (on box cars). I've also
seen retainers mounted low in the end cages of hopper cars.

Side mounted retainers are on only one side of the car. In the old days a
brakeman would walk the line of box cars (for example) and set the retainers
on a specific number of cars - according to whatever rules were in force, and
he carried a rod so he could reach up from the ground and set the retainer
(which has several positions) - and reset the retainer later, the same way.

Retainers became much less important with the introduction of dynamic brakes
but they're still needed in many places.

The old Cal-Scale (now Bowser) AB brake set included this diagram. There are
lots of other diagrams and images online.

Gary



Isn't the retainer located near where the triple valve located?

still a student,

Gary McMills

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Gary McMills
 

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the info. As of late, the freight cars that I have built I found I had to include the brake rigging. I have been using the NMRA diagrams from their website. If you look closely in my photo you can see where I placed the retainer next the air reservoir. On the Sn3 and Hon3 it was easy to place the retainer. On modern freight cars I had to use the NMRA diagrams and I was not 100% sure of its location,but I figured it had to be somewhere where the brakeman would have access to it. I been using a mixture of Cal Scale, Tichy ,and Yarmouth parts.

Gary McMills


 

On 2018-09-27 18:55, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Gary

The retainer line is a small diameter pipe from the AB valve with the
retainer on its end. Retainers can be mounted anywhere, but they need to
be easily accessible to train crews - and maybe they were mounted high up
on cars for security or safety reasons, I don't know.

But when low mounted brake wheels were introduced, new cars were built with
the retainers directly accessible under the sill (on box cars). I've also
seen retainers mounted low in the end cages of hopper cars.

Side mounted retainers are on only one side of the car. In the old days a
brakeman would walk the line of box cars (for example) and set the retainers
on a specific number of cars - according to whatever rules were in force, and
he carried a rod so he could reach up from the ground and set the retainer
(which has several positions) - and reset the retainer later, the same way.

Retainers became much less important with the introduction of dynamic brakes
but they're still needed in many places.

The old Cal-Scale (now Bowser) AB brake set included this diagram. There are
lots of other diagrams and images online.

Gary



Isn't the retainer located near where the triple valve located?

still a student,

Gary McMills

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


ron christensen
 

I have a clinic on brakes and this is a side note on retaining valves.
Hopefully the PDF works.
Ron Christensen


Bill Welch
 

Ron, thank you for posting this document on the Lowly Retainer. I have for awhile known that the AB Valve is not the same thing as the Triple Valve but had wondered where the term "triple valve" came from and now I know it was part of the "K" brake system.

Bill Welch


Dennis Storzek
 

The common generic name these days is control valve. This because they provide more functions than the early triple valves which either charged the reservoir, applied the brake, or released the brake. The terminology predates the K equipment and the H equipment before it, and was also applied to a variety of passenger equipment valves. When the valves gained additional functions such as emergency, they became known as control valves.

Dennis Storzek