Topics

Intermountain Announces Foobies

Nelson Moyer
 

I just got the October 19 new product reservation form for Intermountain wood side reefers. It appears that they are painting one of their SFRD reefers in a number of schemes without regard for prototype detail. Specifically, they announced RR 34461 as a BREX 75500 series car. The BREX prototype had wood sides and ends, Murphy panel roof, wood hatch platforms, fishbelly center sill, no brake step, top mounted uncoupling levers, and a horizontal brake wheel. These cars were rebuilt in the 1940s to include removal of the wood hatch platforms, use of a Hutchins roof, and addition of a brake step. The intermountain car doesn’t have a fishbelly center sill, it lacks the distinctive wraparound corner reinforcement on the sills, but it does have wood hatch platforms of the original car. The ends and roof aren’t visible in the announcement. The reweigh date from intermountain is 7-47, so this car would be one of the rebuilds. Bottom line, the Intermountain car in no way resembles the prototype, and if they release this car as announced, it will be one of the worst foobies ever. I emailed Intermountain and sent a photo of BREX 75535 for their edification. When will they ever learn.

 

I can’t evaluate the PFE, WFE, NP, MDT, LRX, or BAR prototypes, but I would expect knowledgeable modelers to find problems with those cars as well.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

George Courtney
 

Desperate for cash flow with the loss of their main supplier?  That's a question, not a suggestion.

George Courtney

mopacfirst
 

Maybe I'm missing something.  Is this an old Red Caboose product, and what's the prototype supposed to be?  I honestly don't remember this car from the RC line, but I know it's not the 36' meat reefer because I built one of those.

Ron Merrick

Tim O'Connor
 

Nelson

Where have you been for the last 20 years? Intermountain (Frank Angstead) has
never had qualms about applying incorrect paint schemes to models to increase
sales. It's ALWAYS been "buyer beware" with Intermountain models.

The number of HO scale vendors of RTR models who DON'T produce foobies can be
counted on the fingers of one hand - Moloco. Tangent. Ok, that's it, I'm done. ;-)

Tim O'Connor

---------------------------

I just got the October 19 new product reservation form for Intermountain wood side reefers. It appears that they are painting one of their SFRD reefers in a number of schemes without regard for prototype detail. Specifically, they announced RR 34461 as a BREX 75500 series car. The BREX prototype had wood sides and ends, Murphy panel roof, wood hatch platforms, fishbelly center sill, no brake step, top mounted uncoupling levers, and a horizontal brake wheel. These cars were rebuilt in the 1940s to include removal of the wood hatch platforms, use of a Hutchins roof, and addition of a brake step. The intermountain car doesn’t have a fishbelly center sill, it lacks the distinctive wraparound corner reinforcement on the sills, but it does have wood hatch platforms of the original car. The ends and roof aren’t visible in the announcement. The reweigh date from intermountain is 7-47, so this car would be one of the rebuilds. Bottom line, the Intermountain car in no way resembles the prototype, and if they release this car as announced, it will be one of the worst foobies ever. I emailed Intermountain and sent a photo of BREX 75535 for their edification. When will they ever learn.
 
I can’t evaluate the PFE, WFE, NP, MDT, LRX, or BAR prototypes, but I would expect knowledgeable modelers to find problems with those cars as well.
 
Nelson Moyer

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Bruce Smith
 

​Ron,


It is an INTERMOUNTAIN product and has always been so. They are S.F.R.D. rebuilt U.S.R.A reefers. The models can be built to represent a wide variety of classes (RR-19, 23, 25, 27, 28, 32, 33, 34, 35). I may have missed one or two classes. These are pretty good models of these cars and are an essential component of any steam era reefer fleet (unless you model UP/SP).


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Intermountain Announces Foobies
 
Maybe I'm missing something.  Is this an old Red Caboose product, and what's the prototype supposed to be?  I honestly don't remember this car from the RC line, but I know it's not the 36' meat reefer because I built one of those.

Ron Merrick

Marty McGuirk
 

Bruce, 


Looks to me like RR-34461 is the BREX scheme applied to the FGE/WFE wood sided refrigerator car model - while the SFRD USRA cars are also IRC products, the car in this picture isn't one of them. 


Marty McGuirk

Gainesville, Va. 

On November 6, 2018 at 9:07 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

​Ron,


It is an INTERMOUNTAIN product and has always been so. They are S.F.R.D. rebuilt U.S.R.A reefers. The models can be built to represent a wide variety of classes (RR-19, 23, 25, 27, 28, 32, 33, 34, 35). I may have missed one or two classes. These are pretty good models of these cars and are an essential component of any steam era reefer fleet (unless you model UP/SP).


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Intermountain Announces Foobies
 
Maybe I'm missing something.  Is this an old Red Caboose product, and what's the prototype supposed to be?  I honestly don't remember this car from the RC line, but I know it's not the 36' meat reefer because I built one of those.

Ron Merrick


 


 

spsalso
 

I'm looking at the photo of a PFE version reefer as just announced by Intermountain.  It's lettered as an R-30-9, I believe.  And I am also looking at a photo of a real PFE R-30-9.  They look the same to me.  

Perhaps y'all can point out the various details that make it really Santa Fe, or FGEX, or..........




Ed

Edward Sutorik

Tim O'Connor
 


R-30-9 models with Bettendorf underframes (these are ex-Red Caboose)

  34151 PFE not foobie (although car # may not correspond w/ underframe or other details)
  34157 PFE not foobie (although car # may not correspond w/ underframe or other details)
  34159  WP foobie (WP PFE cars were a different class)
  34161 PFE ice service, unknown (I have no photos of R-30-9's in ice service)
  34231  WP foobie (WP PFE cars were a different class)
  34431  NP foobie
  34433 DLW foobie
  34440 MDT foobie
  34461 BRE foobie
  34465 BAR foobie

There are also PFE "wood refrigerator kits" - these are all Terry Wegmann's kit that he
marketed under Pacific Freight Enterprises, and the model is 100% accurate for PFE. I can't
vouch for all of the paint schemes or numbers. Caveat emptor.

And there are also "R-40-25" reefers for PFE and NP. An R-40-25 is basically an R-40-23 with
a diagonal panel roof. These are correct for both PFE and NP!

And there are "SFRD" reefers from the old Long's Hobby kit. Also all correct as far as I know
including a modernized car with reinforced side sills.

Finally there are "wood refrigerator" cars from the ART wood reefer kit.

  47705 BREX foobie
  47710 URTX foobie
  47720 FGEX foobie
  47729 EKSX foobie
  47739 FGEX foobie ice service - sadly they COULD have used ART lettering (attached)
  47741 NX   foobie
  47742 HPKX foobie

Tim O'Connor

-------------------------------

 I'm looking at the photo of a PFE version reefer as just announced by Intermountain.  It's lettered
 as an R-30-9, I believe.  And I am also looking at a photo of a real PFE R-30-9.  They look the same to me.
 Perhaps y'all can point out the various details that make it really Santa Fe, or FGEX, or..........
 Edward Sutorik


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Bruce Smith
 

Ed,

To clarify (and hopefully not screw up like my last post), Intermountain and Red Caboose produced a number of very prototypical refrigerator cars including the following that have been brought up in this discussion:

SFRD rebuilt USRA cars (steel sides)
PFE R-30-12 and R-30-12-9 (aka R-30-9) rebuilds (wood sides) (ex Red Caboose tooling)
FGE post WWII rebuilt 1928 FGE cars (wood sides)

Confusion is of course compounded by the fact that nobody on this thread has actually posted a photo or web site. So let’s try to work through this.

I went to IM’s Modeler’s Club Central Station (their new announcement site) and I get the October page

What I found was, front and center, their nice R-30-12-9 (lettered appropriately R-30-9) with the caption underneath stating that “Ten colorful paint schemes will be available…”  That page has no links to what those schemes will be. However, when I go to "Product Announcements” and select “October 2018” I get a DIFFERENT October announcement page.

If you click open the image of the reefers, you get a larger page with the 10 schemes

And… this is clearly their R-30-12-9 with 5 PFE schemes (all probably pretty accurate for this car) and then LRX (Lackawanna Refrigerator Line), Northern Pacific, M.D.T., Burlington Refrigerator Express, and Bangor and Aroostook. Those would be caveat emptor schemes - I’m not saying foobie because there is the possibility of some of them being cars sold or wrecked and repaired by these lines, such as the PRR’s singleton former SFRD RR-23

So Marty, nope it is not the FGE car, and Nelson (and me), nope it is not an SFRD/ATSF car ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 7, 2018, at 2:50 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

I'm looking at the photo of a PFE version reefer as just announced by Intermountain.  It's lettered as an R-30-9, I believe.  And I am also looking at a photo of a real PFE R-30-9.  They look the same to me.  

Perhaps y'all can point out the various details that make it really Santa Fe, or FGEX, or..........




Ed

Edward Sutorik

tyesac@aol.com
 

The two main spotting features for a true Santa Fe ice cooled reefer is the 5' wide swing doors (non-plug door rebuilds) and the "reverse opening" ice hatches (before some were modified for mechanical icing.   If those features aren't present, it simply isn't a SFRD  ice cooled reefer.  

Tom Casey

I'm looking at the photo of a PFE version reefer as just announced by Intermountain.  It's lettered as an R-30-9, I believe.  And I am also looking at a photo of a real PFE R-30-9.  They look the same to me.  

Perhaps y'all can point out the various details that make it really Santa Fe, or FGEX, or..........




Ed

Edward Sutorik

Tim O'Connor
 


To clarify Bruce's clarification, Red Caboose tooled TWO PFE wood reefers.

The first cars were R-30-12's. These cars were later rebuilt (initially called R-30-12-9's
but later simply classified as R-30-9's). R-30-12's had grab iron "ladders" and were slightly
lower in height. I recall a change in the doors too, but I haven't verified from notes...
There were also R-40-9 rebuilds, but to model those you need a new underframe instead of the
Bettendorf underframe that comes with the kits.

Red Caboose ALSO tooled an incorrect R-30-12 that was later corrected, and the original
was withdrawn. But some of us still have all three cars. ;-)

Tim O'Connor


  > PFE R-30-12 and R-30-12-9 (aka R-30-9) rebuilds (wood sides) (ex Red Caboose tooling)
  > Bruce F. Smith

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

mopacfirst
 

OK, I thought so.

I do have one each of the PFE cars, and quite a few SFRD cars, in service.  I recently figured out that, with a pair of the Rydarowicz 4-4 dreadnought ends, I can make an Rr-33 out of one of the old Longs Drug kits, since I still also have several of those.  I just finished building an ART 35000 car with another pair of those ends and the MPHS/ARM kit.

Ron Merrick

Bill Welch
 

No Undecorated kits however. I wish IM would be more diligent about keeping these available.

Bill Welch

Jon Miller
 

On 11/7/2018 4:24 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
I wish IM would be more diligent about keeping these available.

    Years ago when  I visited IM they did a lot of their molding in their plant and then shipped to China for assemble and painting.  Do they still do that and have most/all of their molds at the plant?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Pierre Oliver
 

Dreams never die ,Bill lol


On Nov 7, 2018, at 7:24 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

No Undecorated kits however. I wish IM would be more diligent about keeping these available.

Bill Welch

Tim O'Connor
 


  > No Undecorated kits however. I wish IM would be more diligent about keeping these available.
  > Bill Welch

From Intermountain's web site - (omitting NUMEROUS kits too modern for STMFC)

  undecorated kit - 50' PS-1 double door w/ cushion underframe (1960+)
  undecorated kit - 50' PS-1 single door w/ cushion underframe (1960+)
  undecorated kit - SFRD refrigerator car
  undecorated kit - 10,000 gallon tank car
  undecorated kit - R-40-10 refrigerator car
  undecorated kit - 60' PS-1 box car (1960+)
  undecorated kit - ACF 2927 covered hopper
  undecorated kit - ART refrigerator car
  undecorated kit - Milwaukee rib side box car
  undecorated kit - 1958 cuft covered hopper open sides
  undecorated kit - 1958 cuft covered hopper closed sides
  undecorated kit - AAR 10'6" box car with R+3/4 ends, 6' door
  undecorated kit - AAR 10'6" box car with R+3/4 ends, 8' door
  undecorated kit - AAR 10'6" box car with R+3/4 ends, 8' door, WELDED SIDES!!!
  undecorated kit - SP C-40-4 caboose kit

I admit it's not EVERY kit (and I omitted the locomotive kits too) - but I suspect they'd
make them more available if people were BUYING them on a regular basis.


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Aley, Jeff A
 

Bruce,

 

               In regard to SFRD reefers, you wrote, “These are pretty good models of these cars and are an essential component of any steam era reefer fleet (unless you model UP/SP).”

 

Hmm.  Looking at the UP conductor book of Mr. DeBoie, I find:

X3569E had 43 reefers, including 5 SFRD.

X1451E had 32 reefers, no SFRD.

 

From another UP conductor’s book, the aggregate of all trains had 479 reefers, 39 SFRD.

 

UP Freight Conductor Traud had an aggregate of 813 reefers, and only 2 SFRD – both carrying merchandise.

 

UP Freight Conductor Harrison had 49 reefers, and no SFRD.

 

               I’ll leave it to the UP modelers to decide for themselves if an SFRD reefer is “essential” or not.  The variation in the samples is quite interesting (39 out of 479 for one conductor; 2 out of 813 for another conductor).

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 6:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Intermountain Announces Foobies

 

​Ron,

 

It is an INTERMOUNTAIN product and has always been so. They are S.F.R.D. rebuilt U.S.R.A reefers. The models can be built to represent a wide variety of classes (RR-19, 23, 25, 27, 28, 32, 33, 34, 35). I may have missed one or two classes. These are pretty good models of these cars and are an essential component of any steam era reefer fleet (unless you model UP/SP).

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

Bruce Smith
 

Jeff,


That's a total of 1416​ reefers, with 46 SFRD for an average frequency of just a hair over 3%. Meaning that if you have 100 reefers, around 3 of them should be SFRD.


The asymmetry is interesting but from my perspective not surprising. We generally think of the UP/SP as originating loads for reefers and that is generally true and the genesis of my comment, but there were population centers that would have wanted produce from regions served by the SFRD and so inbound loads could be a source of those cars. IIRC, Richard Hendrickson also noted that the PFE was occasionally short of cars and that SFRD was a preferred choice of theirs for additional cars.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 7:38 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Intermountain Announces Foobies
 

Bruce,

 

               In regard to SFRD reefers, you wrote, “These are pretty good models of these cars and are an essential component of any steam era reefer fleet (unless you model UP/SP).”

 

Hmm.  Looking at the UP conductor book of Mr. DeBoie, I find:

X3569E had 43 reefers, including 5 SFRD.

X1451E had 32 reefers, no SFRD.

 

From another UP conductor’s book, the aggregate of all trains had 479 reefers, 39 SFRD.

 

UP Freight Conductor Traud had an aggregate of 813 reefers, and only 2 SFRD – both carrying merchandise.

 

UP Freight Conductor Harrison had 49 reefers, and no SFRD.

 

               I’ll leave it to the UP modelers to decide for themselves if an SFRD reefer is “essential” or not.  The variation in the samples is quite interesting (39 out of 479 for one conductor; 2 out of 813 for another conductor).

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

Bill Welch
 

Since the topic was the PFE 30-9 I thought it was clear that they had none of those kits in Undecorated form.

Bill Welch

Tim O'Connor
 

You also implied they weren't "diligent" whatever that means to a
manufacturer's sales force or production planners. I just pointed out
that MANY of their kits are available. Given the difficulties and months
of planning ahead it takes to have products made and packaged in China, I
think the lack of availability most likely reflects the lack of demand.

Tim O'Connor

Since the topic was the PFE 30-9 I thought it was clear that they had none of those kits in Undecorated form.
Bill Welch
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*