Chalk Marks Question


Dean ONeill
 

I have a question(s) on chalk marks. As I look at old photos, it appears there are two "thickness" of chalk marks. 
Chalk marks made with a THIN piece of chalk, much like a school room piece of chalk. Roughly .25 inches thick or less. 
Chalk marks made with a THICK piece of chalk, much like kiddie sidewalk chalk of today. Roughly .5 inches thick. 

Any speculation on which was used under certain circumstances, or was it completely random?
Did certain RRs have a preference?
I seem to also remember from decades back a kind of non-chalk writing stick, more oily, that was more durable. Were those also used?

Thanks
Dean ONeill
Redmond WA


Bruce Smith
 

Dean,

That’s an interesting question.  I have no idea of the answer, but it seems to me that the logical answer is that it would be likely for, say, all the clerks at one yard to be using the same supply and therefore the same size chalk. That might even apply to an entire railroad, especially if it were small. Of course a big yard might give their clerks a choice of chalk size. So I think, to apply this to your modeling, you might want to have all the new chalk marks on cars coming from a specific direction to have similar thickness (and probably color) new chalk marks, with the faded chalk marks having a random range of size and color to reflect the variety of places those cars have been.

;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 9, 2018, at 12:07 PM, Dean ONeill <doneill64@...> wrote:

I have a question(s) on chalk marks. As I look at old photos, it appears there are two "thickness" of chalk marks. 
Chalk marks made with a THIN piece of chalk, much like a school room piece of chalk. Roughly .25 inches thick or less. 
Chalk marks made with a THICK piece of chalk, much like kiddie sidewalk chalk of today. Roughly .5 inches thick. 

Any speculation on which was used under certain circumstances, or was it completely random?
Did certain RRs have a preference?
I seem to also remember from decades back a kind of non-chalk writing stick, more oily, that was more durable. Were those also used?

Thanks
Dean ONeill
Redmond WA


Tony Thompson
 

What is called "railroad chalk" to this day is readily available in art stores. It is one inch in diameter and photos of railroad clerks making chalk marks show it clearly. I used to prefer it when lecturing in large rooms. It comes in at least white, yellow and blue, likely other colors too.
Tony Thompson 


On Nov 9, 2018, at 3:31 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Dean,

That’s an interesting question.  I have no idea of the answer, but it seems to me that the logical answer is that it would be likely for, say, all the clerks at one yard to be using the same supply and therefore the same size chalk. That might even apply to an entire railroad, especially if it were small. Of course a big yard might give their clerks a choice of chalk size. So I think, to apply this to your modeling, you might want to have all the new chalk marks on cars coming from a specific direction to have similar thickness (and probably color) new chalk marks, with the faded chalk marks having a random range of size and color to reflect the variety of places those cars have been.

;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 9, 2018, at 12:07 PM, Dean ONeill <doneill64@...> wrote:

I have a question(s) on chalk marks. As I look at old photos, it appears there are two "thickness" of chalk marks. 
Chalk marks made with a THIN piece of chalk, much like a school room piece of chalk. Roughly .25 inches thick or less. 
Chalk marks made with a THICK piece of chalk, much like kiddie sidewalk chalk of today. Roughly .5 inches thick. 

Any speculation on which was used under certain circumstances, or was it completely random?
Did certain RRs have a preference?
I seem to also remember from decades back a kind of non-chalk writing stick, more oily, that was more durable. Were those also used?

Thanks
Dean ONeill
Redmond WA


Scott
 

While on this subject I got a couple prismacolor pencils and they where much to hard to draw chalk marks.  Is there another brand or type people use?

Scott McDonald


Fran Giacoma
 

Scott,
I have had very good success with a Crayola Watercolor White pencil to apply chalk marks on my freight cars. It came out of my wife’s watercolor pencil set.
Fran Giacoma


Bob Chaparro
 

Chalk used by the railwoads came in very large sticks, 1" in diameter and 4" long.

Chalk sometimes was placed in a holder to keep the clerk’s hands clean, and as an extension when it wore down. A used fusee also could be used to hold the chalk.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Tim O'Connor
 

Scott

It's the only brand I use for chalk marks - and other uses too. I've never had any difficulty with them.
Only very light pressure is needed - less than I would use to draw on paper.

Tim O'Connor


 While on this subject I got a couple prismacolor pencils and they where much to hard to draw chalk marks.
 Is there another brand or type people use? Scott McDonald


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Bob Chaparro
 

Speedwitch, Clover House and Microscale all make chalk mark decals. You also can used typewriter correction tape, marking through the tape with a sharp pencil point.

I found art pencils worked better than other items* I have used. And the one that worked best for me was the Prismacolor Verithin pencil. I do a clinic on chalk markings and at the end hand out Prismacolor Verithin pencils for attendees to try. Most get very good results with no practice. Be sure to get the Verithin version of the Prismacolor pencils.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
*The other items and the Prismacolor Verithin pencil


Brian Carlson
 

We use railroad chalk and keel, the smaller oilier marking material someone asked about, in bridge inspection to make notes on the structure for reference and photos. 
Keel is longer lasting and is sometimes still visible a year later. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:31 PM, Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Chalk used by the railwoads came in very large sticks, 1" in diameter and 4" long.



O Fenton Wells
 

Didn’t know that, Bob thanks for sharing 
Fenton Wells 


On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

We use railroad chalk and keel, the smaller oilier marking material someone asked about, in bridge inspection to make notes on the structure for reference and photos. 
Keel is longer lasting and is sometimes still visible a year later. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:31 PM, Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Chalk used by the railwoads came in very large sticks, 1" in diameter and 4" long.



Jim Betz
 

Hi,
  But if you do them by hand - how do you get the variations in
"handwriting styles" that you would want/need across cars?  One
car, at one point in time, was probably marked with at most 2
different "hands" ... but the next car in the cut often would have
marks from a different "hand".
                                                                                - Jim B.


Bill Welch
 

It can be tricky to sharpen Colored Pencils. Here a couple of links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf-4a4vZYtE

https://www.art-is-fun.com/how-to-sharpen-a-colored-pencil/

I have two of the Prismacolor sharpeners and the Sandpaper Block mentioned in the second link

Bill Welch


Tony Thompson
 

Not sure why Prismacolor would be "too hard." You WANT hard and a super-fine point. (You're doing HO-guy handwriting.) Best done over a Dullcoat or other flat finish.
Tony Thompson 

On Nov 9, 2018, at 8:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

It can be tricky to sharpen Colored Pencils. Here a couple of links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf-4a4vZYtE

https://www.art-is-fun.com/how-to-sharpen-a-colored-pencil/

I have two of the Prismacolor sharpeners and the Sandpaper Block mentioned in the second link

Bill Welch


Scott
 

By hard I mean pressing firmly and not getting anywhere near an opaque line in white or yellow. The pencils I got are marked Prismacolor Premiere.  I will look around for the Prismacolor Verithin to try out.
Maybe I am expecting it to be more opaque then it really is too.

Scott McDonald 


Tom Larsen
 

Scott, I get the same result as you trying to use the Prismacolor Premiere.
Will look for the Verithin kind, but apparently no shops in Denmark carry those.
 
On the same note, what kind, brand and model,  do you use to make the individual boards on wood sided cars look lightly weathered?
Here I have the same problem to some extent.
 
Kind regards
 
Tom Larsen
Holte, Denmark
 
From: Scott
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2018 5:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Chalk Marks Question
 
By hard I mean pressing firmly and not getting anywhere near an opaque line in white or yellow. The pencils I got are marked Prismacolor Premiere.  I will look around for the Prismacolor Verithin to try out.
Maybe I am expecting it to be more opaque then it really is too.

Scott McDonald 


Bob Chaparro
 

Very good advice. I've been turning the sharpener rather than the pencil without knowing it's the preferred way.
When making the chalk mark the sharp point must be used with light pressure. And as Tony suggested, a flat finish improves the results.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Bill Welch
 

Here is a link where artists discuss and compare the Premiere and Verithin pencils: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52275

Bill Welch


Bill Welch
 

Bob, regarding the two pens/markers at the top. I am not seeing the Sharpie you show on the website. Can you provide more info about it please? I found a white Sakuro Pen-Touch with a 2.0mm tip—Is that what you have?

Tnak you,
Bill Welch


Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

An alternative to the pencils would be to use Gelly Roll white pens, which
have a VERY bright, opaque white ink. Many modelers use them to simulate the
bright white markings seen on steel plates. (I think decals for steel plate loads
were also done by Sunshine.)

You can write with the pens onto decal paper, then transfer the ones you like to
your cars.

https://www.amazon.com/Sakura-57457-Gelly-Classic-White/dp/B075VLPL1C

I like the pencils because they are NOT overly bright, but I also have the pens.

Tim O'Connor



 Scott, I get the same result as you trying to use the Prismacolor Premiere.
 Will look for the Verithin kind, but apparently no shops in Denmark carry those.

 On the same note, what kind, brand and model,  do you use to make the individual boards on wood sided cars look lightly
 weathered? Here I have the same problem to some extent. Kind regards
 Tom Larsen Holte, Denmark


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tony Thompson
 

Tim is right about how bright the pens are. I would say WAY too bright and hard to make the stroke thin enuf. 
Tony Thompson 


On Nov 10, 2018, at 7:42 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Tom

An alternative to the pencils would be to use Gelly Roll white pens, which
have a VERY bright, opaque white ink. Many modelers use them to simulate the
bright white markings seen on steel plates. (I think decals for steel plate loads
were also done by Sunshine.)

You can write with the pens onto decal paper, then transfer the ones you like to
your cars.

https://www.amazon.com/Sakura-57457-Gelly-Classic-White/dp/B075VLPL1C

I like the pencils because they are NOT overly bright, but I also have the pens.

Tim O'Connor



 Scott, I get the same result as you trying to use the Prismacolor Premiere.
 Will look for the Verithin kind, but apparently no shops in Denmark carry those.

 On the same note, what kind, brand and model,  do you use to make the individual boards on wood sided cars look lightly
 weathered? Here I have the same problem to some extent. Kind regards
 Tom Larsen Holte, Denmark


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts