AMB wheel masks


Tim O'Connor
 

Can anyone explain why AMB offers three different 33" wheel mask kits
for different manufacturers' 33" wheel sets??

Aren't all HO scale 33" wheelsets the same size?

Same question for 36" wheels!

Thanks

Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 05:46 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Aren't all HO scale 33" wheelsets the same size?
Tim, all prototype 33" wheels aren't the same size :-)  33" works out to .378 and some change in HO scale, unless the manufacturer used 1:87 as the scale factor, then it's a bit over .379. Since the tread is tapered, there has been continuous disagreement about where the diameter should be measured. I know the Accurail molded wheels measure .380 at the root of the flange fillet. When you are trying to produce a press fit paint mask, size matters, as they say, so AMB has decided they need three masks to cover the range. 

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks Dennis. I have wheels from DOZENS of manufacturers so I guess I can
live with a thousandth or two of size variation... Now I wonder which one is
the LARGEST, and that will be my "universal" wheel mask. :-D

Tim



On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 05:46 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Aren't all HO scale 33" wheelsets the same size?

Tim, all prototype 33" wheels aren't the same size :-)  33" works out to .378 and some change in HO scale, unless the manufacturer used 1:87 as the scale factor, then it's a bit over .379. Since the tread is tapered, there has been continuous disagreement about where the diameter should be measured. I know the Accurail molded wheels measure .380 at the root of the flange fillet. When you are trying to produce a press fit paint mask, size matters, as they say, so AMB has decided they need three masks to cover the range.

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Well, I never thought it all that difficult to clean the treads and axle ends after I paint them plus then you don't need to hunt for the right tool when you go to paint. It isn't fun to clean all the fixtures when done too.

I'm sure they have generated a lot of revenue for the companies selling them.

Just my 2¢.
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AMB wheel masks


Thanks Dennis. I have wheels from DOZENS of manufacturers so I guess I can
live with a thousandth or two of size variation... Now I wonder which one is
the LARGEST, and that will be my "universal" wheel mask. :-D

Tim



On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 05:46 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Aren't all HO scale 33" wheelsets the same size?

Tim, all prototype 33" wheels aren't the same size :-)  33" works out to .378 and some change in HO scale, unless the manufacturer used 1:87 as the scale factor, then it's a bit over .379. Since the tread is tapered, there has been continuous disagreement about where the diameter should be measured. I know the Accurail molded wheels measure .380 at the root of the flange fillet. When you are trying to produce a press fit paint mask, size matters, as they say, so AMB has decided they need three masks to cover the range.

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Ted Culotta
 

It’s a LOT easier if you use a mask... speaking from experience.


 

I have a wheel mask, but rarely use it since it doesn’t prevent the axle end from being painted. 

How do folks on this list deal with that? I’m currently dull-coting while still in the truck (while the wheelset is spinning), then subsequently removing the wheel and brush-painting everything to avoid painting the needle journal (usually successfully). 

I’d prefer to airbrush them if I can solve that issue. 

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Dec 10, 2018, at 1:14 AM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...> wrote:

Well, I never thought it all that difficult to clean the treads and axle ends after I paint them plus then you don't need to hunt for the right tool when you go to paint. It isn't fun to clean all the fixtures when done too.

I'm sure they have generated a lot of revenue for the companies selling them.

Just my 2¢.
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AMB wheel masks


Thanks Dennis. I have wheels from DOZENS of manufacturers so I guess I can
live with a thousandth or two of size variation... Now I wonder which one is
the LARGEST, and that will be my "universal" wheel mask. :-D

Tim



On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 05:46 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Aren't all HO scale 33" wheelsets the same size?

Tim, all prototype 33" wheels aren't the same size :-)  33" works out to .378 and some change in HO scale, unless the manufacturer used 1:87 as the scale factor, then it's a bit over .379. Since the tread is tapered, there has been continuous disagreement about where the diameter should be measured. I know the Accurail molded wheels measure .380 at the root of the flange fillet. When you are trying to produce a press fit paint mask, size matters, as they say, so AMB has decided they need three masks to cover the range.

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Charles Happel
 

Micro Mark has a liquid masker. A drop on the axle ends and paint doesn't stick.

Chuck Happel

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. Groucho Marx

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 12/10/18, Matt Goodman via Groups.Io <mgoodman312@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AMB wheel masks
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Monday, December 10, 2018, 6:34 PM

I have a wheel mask, but rarely use it since it
doesn’t prevent the axle end from being
painted. 
How do folks on this list deal with that? I’m
currently dull-coting while still in the truck (while the
wheelset is spinning), then subsequently removing the wheel
and brush-painting everything to avoid painting the needle
journal (usually successfully). 
I’d prefer to airbrush them if I can solve that
issue. 
Matt GoodmanColumbus,
Ohio
Sent from my mobile
On Dec 10, 2018, at 1:14 AM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io
<trainpainter@...>
wrote:

Well,
I never thought it all that difficult to clean the treads
and axle ends after I paint them plus then you don't
need to hunt for the right tool when you go to paint. It
isn't fun to clean all the fixtures when done
too.
I'm
sure they have generated a lot of revenue for the companies
selling them.
Just
my 2¢. Roger
HuberDeer
Creek Locomotive Works




From:
Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Sent:
Sunday, December 9, 2018 10:38 PM
Subject:
Re: [RealSTMFC] AMB wheel masks




Thanks Dennis. I have wheels from DOZENS of manufacturers so
I guess I
can

live with a thousandth or two of size variation... Now I
wonder which one
is

the LARGEST, and that will be my "universal" wheel
mask.
:-D


Tim





On
Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 05:46 PM,
Tim O'Connor wrote:


Aren't all HO scale 33" wheelsets the same
size?



Tim, all prototype 33" wheels aren't the
same size :-) 
33" works out to .378 and some change in HO scale,
unless the
manufacturer used 1:87 as the scale factor, then it's a
bit over .379.
Since the tread is tapered, there has been continuous
disagreement about
where the diameter should be measured. I know the Accurail
molded wheels
measure .380 at the root of the flange fillet. When you are
trying to
produce a press fit paint mask, size matters, as they say,
so AMB has
decided they need three masks to cover the range.


Dennis Storzek
--

Tim
O'Connor
Sterling,
Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 

The modeler's friend - a thousand uses - very cheap, reusable, and long lasting

On 12/10/2018 6:34 PM, Matt Goodman via Groups.Io wrote:
I have a wheel mask, but rarely use it since it doesn’t prevent the axle end from being painted.

How do folks on this list deal with that? I’m currently dull-coting while still in the truck (while the wheelset is spinning), then subsequently removing the wheel and brush-painting everything to avoid painting the needle journal (usually successfully).

I’d prefer to airbrush them if I can solve that issue.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Dennis Storzek
 

I have a slightly different take on this, but it may be applicable. I got tired of the paint chipping off wheel rims (the outer face of the tire). Most turned (as opposed to Kadee die cast) metal wheels are nickel plated, and nickel is a hard slippery surface that doesn't hold paint well, and is resistant to etching with mild acids like vinegar. So, I decided to abrasive blast the wheels to give the surface some "tooth". Problem is, one can't wipe off the roughened surface, which means the tread and axle point both need to be masked (I don't bother blasting the wheel backs).

To make the mask I drilled a 3/8" hole through the end of an Accurail car weight, not only because I had one at hand, but also because Accurail weights are .078 thick, just the right thickness to mask the whole tread on a Code 110 wheel ( a thinner piece of metal would work for Code 88 wheels). After drilling the hole, I used some fine sandpaper wrapped around a 1/4" dowel to gently expand it a couple thousandths to fit  a scale 33" wheel.

I then took a piece of 1/8" brass tubing a couple inches long and flattened all but the last 1/4" of it, then bent the flat portion into a "jug handle" shape so when the flat portion was affixed to the weight, the round end of the tube covered the axle point. Once both parts were made, I grit blasted them to increase the adhesion of the epoxy I used to assemble them. I fit a wheelset in the hole and positioned the bent tube to cover the axle point and fastened them together with a gob of JB Weld. Not elegant, but effective.

To use, I clamp the mask upright in the blasting booth, and hold the wheels in the hole with a gloved had, blasting first one wheel face, then the other. The thickness of the car weight protects the tread and flange, while the tube protects the bearing. The bend in the tube makes room for the stream of abrasive to get to all portions of the wheel face. The same set-up could probably be used as a paint mask, but I'm not interested in cleaning the mask, and just brush paint the wheels.

Dennis Storzek


John
 

I just push a length of insulation from an appropriate size of wire onto the axle end. I use a long enough piece that no paint finds its way to the axle.

John Bopp
Farmington Hills, MI


radiodial868
 

I wondered about all those sizes too. I got the Proto 2000 one and have used it on every 33" wheel I've got: Intermountain, Rapido, whatever TMW uses, etc.  Both .100 and .088.   Key is to use a rubber band as shown. Spray with Cammo brown from a rattle can gives the wheels that unpainted but even rough texture. Pop them out and a quick couple of rotations with the fingernail on the shiny surface and you are done!  Very durable finish too.
RJ Dial


Tony Thompson
 

Gosh, never took all this trouble. I hand-paint wheel faces with a brush, takes a minute or two, trivial clean-up. I did try a wheel mask once, borrowed Richard Hendrickson's, wasn't impressed.
Tony Thompson 


On Dec 10, 2018, at 6:31 PM, radiodial868 <radiodial@...> wrote:

I wondered about all those sizes too. I got the Proto 2000 one and have used it on every 33" wheel I've got: Intermountain, Rapido, whatever TMW uses, etc.  Both .100 and .088.   Key is to use a rubber band as shown. Spray with Cammo brown from a rattle can gives the wheels that unpainted but even rough texture. Pop them out and a quick couple of rotations with the fingernail on the shiny surface and you are done!  Very durable finish too.
RJ Dial
<IMG_0237.jpg>


James Brewer
 

I had a wheel mask but found it more trouble that it was worth; now I use a micro brush to paint the wheel and axle; simply throw the micro brush away when done.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 10:10 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Gosh, never took all this trouble. I hand-paint wheel faces with a brush, takes a minute or two, trivial clean-up. I did try a wheel mask once, borrowed Richard Hendrickson's, wasn't impressed.
Tony Thompson 


On Dec 10, 2018, at 6:31 PM, radiodial868 <radiodial@...> wrote:

I wondered about all those sizes too. I got the Proto 2000 one and have used it on every 33" wheel I've got: Intermountain, Rapido, whatever TMW uses, etc.  Both .100 and .088.   Key is to use a rubber band as shown. Spray with Cammo brown from a rattle can gives the wheels that unpainted but even rough texture. Pop them out and a quick couple of rotations with the fingernail on the shiny surface and you are done!  Very durable finish too.
RJ Dial
<IMG_0237.jpg>


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Their main utility IMO is not the wheel faces but the ability to paint the axles and the backs of the wheels a nice weathered rusty appearance, different from the weathering of the wheel faces.

Tim O'


On 12/10/2018 10:10 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Gosh, never took all this trouble. I hand-paint wheel faces with a brush, takes a minute or two, trivial clean-up. I did try a wheel mask once, borrowed Richard Hendrickson's, wasn't impressed.
Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


frograbbit602
 

No mask. After I install the wheel sets in painted or unpainted side frames I brush paint them. I lay the loaded brush on the wheel and by turning each wheel paint it in seconds. I may have to touch up the rim again. The back of the wheel just a loaded brush on the wheel and spin the wheel ( if installed properly) with the loaded brush applying paint at the same time. The axle the same as the back of the wheel. It takes me a lot less time to hand paint wheel sets rather than loading in a jig and spraying- setup and cleanup.
Lester Breuer


Bob Chaparro
 

Because I'm not building contest models, I'm with Tony Thompson and Jim Brewer on this. The wheel mask was a lot of effort and didn't protect the axel ends. A microbrush makes quick work of this. On my layout it's not easy to see unpainted wheelbacks but I do hand paint some of these and the axels.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


chessiesd35 <RDGSD45@...>
 

   I just use those Floquill paint markers. No clean up at all.

Doug Wetherhold
RDG East Penn Branch
MP 9.2 Macungie, Pa


Steve SANDIFER
 

I guess I am lazy. I leave the wheel sets in a truck frame. The air from an airbrush is sufficient to spin the wheel. If it isn’t, then you want to change wheel sets or further treat the truck frames. Let the airbrush spin the wheel and paint the inside, backside, and axle. After it dries, I place a paper towel over a piece of flex track, put a few drops of lacquer thinner on it, and run the truck back and forth on the towel to clean any overspray. Since I am a 1952 modeler, I use Floquil grimy black paint.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 9:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AMB wheel masks

 

Gosh, never took all this trouble I hand-paint wheel faces with a brush, takes a minute or two, trivial clean-up. I did try a wheel mask once, borrowed Richard Hendrickson's, wasn't impressed.

Tony Thompson 


On Dec 10, 2018, at 6:31 PM, radiodial868 <radiodial@...> wrote:

I wondered about all those sizes too. I got the Proto 2000 one and have used it on every 33" wheel I've got: Intermountain, Rapido, whatever TMW uses, etc.  Both .100 and .088.   Key is to use a rubber band as shown. Spray with Cammo brown from a rattle can gives the wheels that unpainted but even rough texture. Pop them out and a quick couple of rotations with the fingernail on the shiny surface and you are done!  Very durable finish too.
RJ Dial
<IMG_0237.jpg>


roblmclear
 

I'm with Doug and still use the Floquil pens, however knowing they are no longer produced I believe that there is an alternative which has been mentioned before but for the life of me I can't remember what they are called.   I paint the faces of the wheels and then put them in the trucks and paint the backs and the axles whilst spinning the wheel, takes longer to describe than it does to do.

Rob McLear
Aussie.


 

After reading through this thread, I’m glad to see that there is consensus on one approach… :)

Having tried about all of them, I can happily say that I apparently am doing it right!

Matt Goodman
Columbus Ohio US

On Dec 10, 2018, at 7:05 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The modeler's friend - a thousand uses - very cheap, reusable, and long lasting


On 12/10/2018 6:34 PM, Matt Goodman via Groups.Io wrote:
I have a wheel mask, but rarely use it since it doesn’t prevent the axle end from being painted.

How do folks on this list deal with that? I’m currently dull-coting while still in the truck (while the wheelset is spinning), then subsequently removing the wheel and brush-painting everything to avoid painting the needle journal (usually successfully).

I’d prefer to airbrush them if I can solve that issue.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



<putty.jpg>