Topics

WM 4201 -4450

Brian Carlson
 

Looking for a photo of the above series WM boxcars. Does anyone have one?

 

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

               

Roger Huber
 

Brian,

Here's one.
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:13 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WM 4201 -4450

Looking for a photo of the above series WM boxcars. Does anyone have one?
 
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
               


Tim O'Connor
 

Here's another - low angle sunlight highlighting the underframe


On 12/20/2018 10:21 PM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io wrote:
Brian,

Here's one.
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:13 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WM 4201 -4450

Looking for a photo of the above series WM boxcars. Does anyone have one?
 
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
               


Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Roger,

Is that a Duryea underframe? Note that the re-stenciled weight data is in a different type style from the original. A neat detail.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 12/20/18 10:49 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Here's another - low angle sunlight highlighting the underframe


On 12/20/2018 10:21 PM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io wrote:
Brian,

Here's one.
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:13 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WM 4201 -4450

Looking for a photo of the above series WM boxcars. Does anyone have one?
 
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
               


Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Roger Huber
 

Garth,

I have so little knowledge of freight car parts I don't know!
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] WM 4201 -4450

Roger,

Is that a Duryea underframe? Note that the re-stenciled weight data is in a different type style from the original. A neat detail.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 12/20/18 10:49 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Here's another - low angle sunlight highlighting the underframe

On 12/20/2018 10:21 PM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io wrote:
Brian,

Here's one.
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:13 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WM 4201 -4450

Looking for a photo of the above series WM boxcars. Does anyone have one?
 
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
               


Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Bill Welch
 

The following link will take you to a comprehensive and up-to-date set of tables for Steel Boxcars with information about numerous options: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html

Bill Welch

Ed Hawkins
 


On Dec 21, 2018, at 4:27 AM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Is that a Duryea underframe? Note that the re-stenciled weight data is in a different type style from the original. A neat detail.

Garth,
While the WM had numerous freight cars with Duryea underframes, the WM 4201-4450 box cars had conventional welded underframes used by ACF from the late 1940s through the 1950s. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Bill Keene
 

Hello Group,

What would be a good kit to use as a starting point to model the car in HO scale?

Cheer,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Dec 20, 2018, at 7:49 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Here's another - low angle sunlight highlighting the underframe


On 12/20/2018 10:21 PM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io wrote:
Brian,

Here's one.
 
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works



From: Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:13 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WM 4201 -4450

Looking for a photo of the above series WM boxcars. Does anyone have one?
 
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
               


Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
<wm_4297 40ft_SD_box ACF-1953 welded-sides.jpg>

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill,

Apparently I was mistaken about WM 4201 having Duryea underframes. There is no mention in Ed Hawkins' AAR Boxcar list, or in his All-time Duryea list. That said, missing from the Duryea list are D&RGW boxcars 67500-67999, and apparently 69400-69899 (underframe type isn't specified in Jim Eager's D&RGW Color Guide, but he says they were identical to the 68000-series). I didn't find the WM 901XXX series of cabooses there. One (or maybe two) of these survive in Staunton, Virginia. I know 901882 has a Duryea underframe because I crawled under the car to photograph same. See attached.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 12/21/18 12:11 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
The following link will take you to a comprehensive and up-to-date set of tables for Steel Boxcars with information about numerous options: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html

Bill Welch

Ed Hawkins
 


On Dec 21, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

 There is no mention in Ed Hawkins' AAR Boxcar list, or in his All-time Duryea list. That said, missing from the Duryea list are D&RGW boxcars 67500-67999, and apparently 69400-69899 (underframe type isn't specified in Jim Eager's D&RGW Color Guide, but he says they were identical to the 68000-series).

Garth,
While there’s no credit for the Duryea underframe cars on the STMFC web site, I believe Ted Culotta developed the original list. Any additional equipment having Duryea underframes not currently on the list can be added by contacting Rob Adams.

Concur with the D&RGW 12-panel box cars built by Pressed Steel Car Co. from 1939 to 1946 as all had Duryea underframes to include 5 series 68000-68399 (1939), 68400-68899 (1940), 68900-69399 (1941), 69400-69899 (1942), and 67500-67999 (1946). The total number of these D&RGW cars built came to 2,402, two of which were replacement cars in the 1942 order.

These Rio Grande cars were discussed in Pat Wider’s article published in RP CYC Volumes 31-32. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Bill Welch
 

Bill,

Both C&BT and Branchline/now Atlas offer kits with 4/4/ Improved Dreadnaught ends, rectangular paneled roof and eight foot doors.

Bill Welch

Brian Carlson
 

The riveted sides would have to be sanded flat and the 12 panel welded sides modeled. A 12 panel welded side car is missing in plastic.  Yarmouth has been filling the void in resin but I have no idea if they’d consider this car down the road. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Dec 21, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Bill,

Both C&BT and Branchline/now Atlas offer kits with 4/4/ Improved Dreadnaught ends, rectangular paneled roof and eight foot doors.

Bill Welch

Tim O'Connor
 

For slightly LATER welded cars, Front Range produced welded side kits for 6 foot door, 8 foot door, and combination plug sliding door box car kits. All of the Front Range box cars had R+3/4 ends as well, and the underbodies need to be chopped out and replaced with Accurail floors. The roof is not part of the body casting however, so a variety of roofs can be applied easily.

Tim


On 12/21/2018 3:55 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io wrote:
The riveted sides would have to be sanded flat and the 12 panel welded sides modeled. A 12 panel welded side car is missing in plastic.  Yarmouth has been filling the void in resin but I have no idea if they’d consider this car down the road. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Dec 21, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Bill,

Both C&BT and Branchline/now Atlas offer kits with 4/4/ Improved Dreadnaught ends, rectangular paneled roof and eight foot doors.

Bill Welch

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

steve_wintner
 

Archer offers decal "weld lines", which I've not seen in person, but might work well for precisely this sort of build.

Steve

Bill Welch
 

Archer does offer "Weld Lines" but they are intended for armor modelers. For boxcars I recommend their "Aircraft Panel" line decals. Here are two examples. The Georgia roof is primed.

Bill Welch

Bill Keene
 

Bill, Brian, Tim, Steve,

Thank you all for your kind and educational suggestions on how to model one of these WM box cars. Most helpful indeed. Now it is the time to put this learning into motion and progress as there is not a single WM box car in the layout fleet.

Thanks & Cheers, 
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Dec 21, 2018, at 2:37 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Archer does offer "Weld Lines" but they are intended for armor modelers. For boxcars I recommend their "Aircraft Panel" line decals. Here are two examples. The Georgia roof is primed.

Bill Welch <Monon _37 left end area details.JPG><_4 Georgia USRA steel rebuild Archer Panel Lines for welded roof.JPG>

mopacfirst
 

The door is problematic too, since it appears to be an early Youngstown style.  I don't offhand know of a source for this door in 8' width.  But the underframe is a perfect Branchline design.  Perhaps the relatively heavy crossbearers near the edges of the door opening may have contributed to the similarity.

And I second the desire for a welded side model, five-panel or six-panel.

Ron Merrick

StephenK
 

Notice also that the re-stenciled data is in several different sizes as well.   This is the kind of thing that, reproduced accurately, makes one look like a sloppy modeler!

Steve Kay

Brian Carlson
 

On issue with the BLT underframe is the main crossbearers are only in the correct location for 6 ft doors. Ed Hawkins posted an article on modifying the 50 ft underframe for 8 ft. doors. I did one conversion myself. Hard to believe it was 16 years ago!! http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/modeling/articles/btuframemain.html

 

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] WM 4201 -4450

 

The door is problematic too, since it appears to be an early Youngstown style.  I don't offhand know of a source for this door in 8' width.  But the underframe is a perfect Branchline design.  Perhaps the relatively heavy crossbearers near the edges of the door opening may have contributed to the similarity.

And I second the desire for a welded side model, five-panel or six-panel.

Ron Merrick