Topics

Eastern Car Works 65' mill gondolas

Scott H. Haycock
 

I'm going through my stash of old kits and trying to match them to prototypes.

The kit I'm researching is ECW #3010, AAR 70t Undec.

According to the instruction sheet of this kit, The Southern had a series of these cars, # 52000-52169, and the L&N had a series, #26000-26224. This L&N series is apparently ex- NC&StL, which the instruction sheet does not list as an original owner. The instructions are nebulous on whether the model is the Pennsy G26, or the AAR 70t car. 

  My Questions are:  Is this kit accurate for a SOU or L&N/NC&StL car?

Are there any photos online? I've checked the obvious sites with no results.

Are there any drawings of this car available, online or in the hobby magazines?

Scott Haycock 

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Steve,

To paraphrase Obi-Wan, "Are these the gondolas you seek?": http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sout52347agd.jpg

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 1/13/19 4:21 AM, Scott H. Haycock wrote:
I'm going through my stash of old kits and trying to match them to prototypes.

The kit I'm researching is ECW #3010, AAR 70t Undec.

According to the instruction sheet of this kit, The Southern had a series of these cars, # 52000-52169, and the L&N had a series, #26000-26224. This L&N series is apparently ex- NC&StL, which the instruction sheet does not list as an original owner. The instructions are nebulous on whether the model is the Pennsy G26, or the AAR 70t car. 

  My Questions are:  Is this kit accurate for a SOU or L&N/NC&StL car?

Are there any photos online? I've checked the obvious sites with no results.

Are there any drawings of this car available, online or in the hobby magazines?

Scott Haycock 

anthony wagner
 

Scott, I recently built a PRR G-26 version of this car for a PRR based layout a friend and I are building and an AAR version that will be lettered for P&LE. ECW produced two versions of this car differing in the side and ladder details. I checked my 1-1-50 ORER and found that SOU had two versions. 52000-52149 150 cars were 65'0" IL and 318000-318149 150 cars were 65'6" IL. NC&StL had 25 of the 65'6" IL cars in series 41000-41024 and L&N two groups 25000-25099 and 25100-25299 for a total of 299 of the 65'6" IL cars. I have no photos of the NC&StL car and the attached L&N car must have been from a series built later than 1950. I have included a photo of a PRR G-26 and an NYC car which closely followed the AAR design to illustrate the differences in the side stakes and side grab irons. Tony Wagner

On Sunday, January 13, 2019, 3:21:11 AM CST, Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:


I'm going through my stash of old kits and trying to match them to prototypes.

The kit I'm researching is ECW #3010, AAR 70t Undec.

According to the instruction sheet of this kit, The Southern had a series of these cars, # 52000-52169, and the L&N had a series, #26000-26224. This L&N series is apparently ex- NC&StL, which the instruction sheet does not list as an original owner. The instructions are nebulous on whether the model is the Pennsy G26, or the AAR 70t car. 

  My Questions are:  Is this kit accurate for a SOU or L&N/NC&StL car?

Are there any photos online? I've checked the obvious sites with no results.

Are there any drawings of this car available, online or in the hobby magazines?

Scott Haycock 

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Using the correct replacement ends available from Speedwitch the Athearn 65-foot mill gon is correct for SAL, L&N, and NC&StL. The ECW kit is not correct. Speedwitch also have the correct decals for these cars.

Bill Welch

mopacfirst
 

I have an ECW 3010 kit, unbuilt, which I just discovered contains two complete sets of components. I think I bought this one new.  I also, in the last couple years, bought off eBay an ECW 3000 kit, which is for the PRR G26.  Both are on list of kits to build in the next few years, since I have a steel fabricator on the railroad I'm modeling.

The PRR car is pretty distinctive.  The first rib from each end, and the seventh rib from each end, are wider and the seventh rib from each end extends to the bottom of the fishbelly while the other ribs on the fishbelly portion do not.  I think this kit is relatively rare and I intend to build it.  I also have an unpainted Alco Models one, which I'd pass to someone who'd prefer a brass car.

Naturally, the G26 was thoroughly covered in a TKM issue some time back.

The ECW 3010 "AAR" version has 20 panels and the fishbelly begins at the second panel in from each end.  It has jacking pads just inboard from the first rib, which are visible on the NYC photo referenced above, and which are not on the others.  So perhaps it's closest to the NYC car, except for needing the top chord reinforcement as shown above.  This ECW car has the fishbelly slope spanning five panels, the third through seventh.  I think the Athearn car, like the one in the L&N photo above, has the fishbelly slope spanning only four panels, the third through sixth.

I painted a WAB and an ATSF version of the 65' gon starting with the Athearn model.  I can't find either one on the layout now, so I have to assume they're packed and at my other house.

As for the model itself, I'd compare it to a Sunshine flat kit, albeit perhaps easier to assemble since it has alignment grooves in the sides.  By being molded flat, there is detail on the interior sides and ends.

Ron Merrick

rdgbuff56
 

This can be kitbashed into other PRR classes.  Please send up to date for sale list to RDGbuff56@...


On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 8:09 PM, mopacfirst
<ron.merrick@...> wrote:
I have an ECW 3010 kit, unbuilt, which I just discovered contains two complete sets of components. I think I bought this one new.  I also, in the last couple years, bought off eBay an ECW 3000 kit, which is for the PRR G26.  Both are on list of kits to build in the next few years, since I have a steel fabricator on the railroad I'm modeling.

The PRR car is pretty distinctive.  The first rib from each end, and the seventh rib from each end, are wider and the seventh rib from each end extends to the bottom of the fishbelly while the other ribs on the fishbelly portion do not.  I think this kit is relatively rare and I intend to build it.  I also have an unpainted Alco Models one, which I'd pass to someone who'd prefer a brass car.

Naturally, the G26 was thoroughly covered in a TKM issue some time back.

The ECW 3010 "AAR" version has 20 panels and the fishbelly begins at the second panel in from each end.  It has jacking pads just inboard from the first rib, which are visible on the NYC photo referenced above, and which are not on the others.  So perhaps it's closest to the NYC car, except for needing the top chord reinforcement as shown above.  This ECW car has the fishbelly slope spanning five panels, the third through seventh.  I think the Athearn car, like the one in the L&N photo above, has the fishbelly slope spanning only four panels, the third through sixth.

I painted a WAB and an ATSF version of the 65' gon starting with the Athearn model.  I can't find either one on the layout now, so I have to assume they're packed and at my other house.

As for the model itself, I'd compare it to a Sunshine flat kit, albeit perhaps easier to assemble since it has alignment grooves in the sides.  By being molded flat, there is detail on the interior sides and ends.

Ron Merrick

Scott H. Haycock
 

Thanks, Garth.


I saw that one but didn't look at it closely because it is from a different series than the one listed in the kit instructions.


I've looked at it again, and the sides look right on except I'll have to remove the jacking pads and add towing loops instead.


There is a 3/4 view of another car in this series- #52339 in the Southern Railway Color Guide, pg. 70. It shows a different end than the one in the kit, or the one available from Speedwich.  Maybe another list member who has this book can identify it.


This picture also shows some additional rivets that would need to be added at the ends of the sides.



Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On January 13, 2019 at 6:36 AM Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Steve,

To paraphrase Obi-Wan, "Are these the gondolas you seek?": http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sout52347agd.jpg

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 1/13/19 4:21 AM, Scott H. Haycock wrote:
I'm going through my stash of old kits and trying to match them to prototypes.

The kit I'm researching is ECW #3010, AAR 70t Undec.

According to the instruction sheet of this kit, The Southern had a series of these cars, # 52000-52169, and the L&N had a series, #26000-26224. This L&N series is apparently ex- NC&StL, which the instruction sheet does not list as an original owner. The instructions are nebulous on whether the model is the Pennsy G26, or the AAR 70t car. 

  My Questions are:  Is this kit accurate for a SOU or L&N/NC&StL car?

Are there any photos online? I've checked the obvious sites with no results.

Are there any drawings of this car available, online or in the hobby magazines?

Scott Haycock 


 


 

O Fenton Wells
 

Scott, here are two photos of SRR cars hope this helps. Don't have any L&N gon photos of these cars
Fenton

On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 4:21 AM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:
I'm going through my stash of old kits and trying to match them to prototypes.

The kit I'm researching is ECW #3010, AAR 70t Undec.

According to the instruction sheet of this kit, The Southern had a series of these cars, # 52000-52169, and the L&N had a series, #26000-26224. This L&N series is apparently ex- NC&StL, which the instruction sheet does not list as an original owner. The instructions are nebulous on whether the model is the Pennsy G26, or the AAR 70t car. 

  My Questions are:  Is this kit accurate for a SOU or L&N/NC&StL car?

Are there any photos online? I've checked the obvious sites with no results.

Are there any drawings of this car available, online or in the hobby magazines?

Scott Haycock 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Benjamin Hom
 

Scott H. Haycock asked:
"Are there any photos online? I've checked the obvious sites with no results."

Richard Hendrickson's article in the February 2006 issue of Railmodel Journal (page 16) is available on the Trainlife website:

Ben Hom




Andy Miller
 

I have built several of the ECW 3000 and 3010 kits.  They require a lot of additional weight to track properly.  As I recall they also sit to high on their trucks and must be lowered.  But they do easily make up to a beautiful car which is hard to find elsewhere and absolutely necessary if you haul steel.

 

Regards,

 

Andy Miler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 8:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Eastern Car Works 65' mill gondolas

 

I have an ECW 3010 kit, unbuilt, which I just discovered contains two complete sets of components. I think I bought this one new.  I also, in the last couple years, bought off eBay an ECW 3000 kit, which is for the PRR G26.  Both are on list of kits to build in the next few years, since I have a steel fabricator on the railroad I'm modeling.

The PRR car is pretty distinctive.  The first rib from each end, and the seventh rib from each end, are wider and the seventh rib from each end extends to the bottom of the fishbelly while the other ribs on the fishbelly portion do not.  I think this kit is relatively rare and I intend to build it.  I also have an unpainted Alco Models one, which I'd pass to someone who'd prefer a brass car.

Naturally, the G26 was thoroughly covered in a TKM issue some time back.

The ECW 3010 "AAR" version has 20 panels and the fishbelly begins at the second panel in from each end.  It has jacking pads just inboard from the first rib, which are visible on the NYC photo referenced above, and which are not on the others.  So perhaps it's closest to the NYC car, except for needing the top chord reinforcement as shown above.  This ECW car has the fishbelly slope spanning five panels, the third through seventh.  I think the Athearn car, like the one in the L&N photo above, has the fishbelly slope spanning only four panels, the third through sixth.

I painted a WAB and an ATSF version of the 65' gon starting with the Athearn model.  I can't find either one on the layout now, so I have to assume they're packed and at my other house.

As for the model itself, I'd compare it to a Sunshine flat kit, albeit perhaps easier to assemble since it has alignment grooves in the sides.  By being molded flat, there is detail on the interior sides and ends.

Ron Merrick

mopacfirst
 

I'm going to change the subject of this tread slightly, and start a different thread, both on 65' gons.

The NYC car shown above, exactly what is it?  Its caption identifies it as NYC 726013, which is a lot 623-G according to the CASO database.  It has jacking pads, but otherwise appears very similar in design to many of the other 'AAR' 65' gons, in that it has 18 panels, the slope of the fishbelly spans five panels, and all the ribs go to the bottom of the car side.  The photo shows the A end, so it's not obvious what brakewheel type it has.

But the diagram linked to the 623-G shows a car with 22 panels and a vertical brakeshaft, which has more in common with the 587-G (P&LE 49000-49099).  The P&LE car has the reinforcing angle at the bottom of the sides turned outward rather than the later practice of having this angle turned inward.

So I'm really not sure which is which.  I have a Precision Scale model of the lot 623-G which matches the 587-G, and at the time I found a photo that confirmed that.  I believe it's the same photo that's linked to the car number in the CASO database.

Ron Merrick

Tim O'Connor
 

The 623-G cars had 22 panels. Here is a 1962 photo.

Tim O'

On 1/20/2019 11:06 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
I'm going to change the subject of this tread slightly, and start a different thread, both on 65' gons.

The NYC car shown above, exactly what is it?  Its caption identifies it as NYC 726013, which is a lot 623-G according to the CASO database.  It has jacking pads, but otherwise appears very similar in design to many of the other 'AAR' 65' gons, in that it has 18 panels, the slope of the fishbelly spans five panels, and all the ribs go to the bottom of the car side.  The photo shows the A end, so it's not obvious what brakewheel type it has.

But the diagram linked to the 623-G shows a car with 22 panels and a vertical brakeshaft, which has more in common with the 587-G (P&LE 49000-49099).  The P&LE car has the reinforcing angle at the bottom of the sides turned outward rather than the later practice of having this angle turned inward.

So I'm really not sure which is which.  I have a Precision Scale model of the lot 623-G which matches the 587-G, and at the time I found a photo that confirmed that.  I believe it's the same photo that's linked to the car number in the CASO database.

Ron Merrick
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

vapeurchapelon
 

And still with the vertical brake shaft/ horizontal brake wheel! Many thanks Tim!
(I, too have a Precision Scale model, but the P&LE car and at first was confused by this brake detail arrangement.)

Johannes

Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Januar 2019 um 17:20 Uhr
Von: "Tim O'Connor" <@timboconnor>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Eastern Car Works 65' mill gondolas


The 623-G cars had 22 panels. Here is a 1962 photo.

Tim O'


On 1/20/2019 11:06 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
I'm going to change the subject of this tread slightly, and start a
different thread, both on 65' gons.

The NYC car shown above, exactly what is it?  Its caption identifies
it as NYC 726013, which is a lot 623-G according to the CASO
database.  It has jacking pads, but otherwise appears very similar in
design to many of the other 'AAR' 65' gons, in that it has 18 panels,
the slope of the fishbelly spans five panels, and all the ribs go to
the bottom of the car side.  The photo shows the A end, so it's not
obvious what brakewheel type it has.

But the diagram linked to the 623-G shows a car with 22 panels and a
vertical brakeshaft, which has more in common with the 587-G (P&LE
49000-49099).  The P&LE car has the reinforcing angle at the bottom of
the sides turned outward rather than the later practice of having this
angle turned inward.

So I'm really not sure which is which.  I have a Precision Scale model
of the lot 623-G which matches the 587-G, and at the time I found a
photo that confirmed that.  I believe it's the same photo that's
linked to the car number in the CASO database.

Ron Merrick


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



rdgbuff56
 

It appears to me that the RDG may be the only owner of this style gon that is welded.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr



On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 11:34 AM, vapeurchapelon
<j.markwart@...> wrote:
And still with the vertical brake shaft/ horizontal brake wheel! Many thanks Tim!
(I, too have a Precision Scale model, but the P&LE car and at first was confused by this brake detail arrangement.)

Johannes

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Januar 2019 um 17:20 Uhr
> Von: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
> Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Eastern Car Works 65' mill gondolas
>
>
> The 623-G cars had 22 panels. Here is a 1962 photo.
>
> Tim O'
>
>
> On 1/20/2019 11:06 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
> > I'm going to change the subject of this tread slightly, and start a
> > different thread, both on 65' gons.
> >
> > The NYC car shown above, exactly what is it?  Its caption identifies
> > it as NYC 726013, which is a lot 623-G according to the CASO
> > database.  It has jacking pads, but otherwise appears very similar in
> > design to many of the other 'AAR' 65' gons, in that it has 18 panels,
> > the slope of the fishbelly spans five panels, and all the ribs go to
> > the bottom of the car side.  The photo shows the A end, so it's not
> > obvious what brakewheel type it has.
> >
> > But the diagram linked to the 623-G shows a car with 22 panels and a
> > vertical brakeshaft, which has more in common with the 587-G (P&LE
> > 49000-49099).  The P&LE car has the reinforcing angle at the bottom of
> > the sides turned outward rather than the later practice of having this
> > angle turned inward.
> >
> > So I'm really not sure which is which.  I have a Precision Scale model
> > of the lot 623-G which matches the 587-G, and at the time I found a
> > photo that confirmed that.  I believe it's the same photo that's
> > linked to the car number in the CASO database.
> >
> > Ron Merrick
>
>
>
> --
> *Tim O'Connor*
> *Sterling, Massachusetts*
>
>
>
>


mopacfirst
 

It's good to know they lasted that long.  But this confirms the accuracy of the brass model.  I can't look at it now, since with any luck it's in a car carrier at my other house.  But the box is here in Houston.

Ron Merrick

mopacfirst
 

Another detail question:  the SP G-70-14, which has grab irons rather than quasi-ladders like the Santa Fe, Wabash, and others (Athearn model).  There are some other prototypes with the grab irons.  The SP cars are well illustrated in SP Freight Cars vol.1.

The G-70-14 has lading anchors of some sort on the top chord.  But even despite the good photos, I can't quite make out what the shape is.  Any ideas?

Ron Merrick

Bruce Smith
 

​ROn,


I looked at the NYC gondola photo that was posted by Tony Wagner in this thread and, unlike you, I counted 22 panels on NYC 726013. You might want to recount the panels ;)  Clearly, the diagram is correct, and this is a latter style of mill gondola with 22 panels (and I note a side stiffener) instead of 18... implying that the original sides and center sill may not have been strong enough for the loads placed in these cars.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Eastern Car Works 65' mill gondolas
 
I'm going to change the subject of this tread slightly, and start a different thread, both on 65' gons.

The NYC car shown above, exactly what is it?  Its caption identifies it as NYC 726013, which is a lot 623-G according to the CASO database.  It has jacking pads, but otherwise appears very similar in design to many of the other 'AAR' 65' gons, in that it has 18 panels, the slope of the fishbelly spans five panels, and all the ribs go to the bottom of the car side.  The photo shows the A end, so it's not obvious what brakewheel type it has.

But the diagram linked to the 623-G shows a car with 22 panels and a vertical brakeshaft, which has more in common with the 587-G (P&LE 49000-49099).  The P&LE car has the reinforcing angle at the bottom of the sides turned outward rather than the later practice of having this angle turned inward.

So I'm really not sure which is which.  I have a Precision Scale model of the lot 623-G which matches the 587-G, and at the time I found a photo that confirmed that.  I believe it's the same photo that's linked to the car number in the CASO database.

Ron Merrick

rdgbuff56
 

Is the RDG the only road to own the welded version of this car?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.


On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 4:21 AM, Scott H. Haycock
<shhaycock@...> wrote:
I'm going through my stash of old kits and trying to match them to prototypes.

The kit I'm researching is ECW #3010, AAR 70t Undec.

According to the instruction sheet of this kit, The Southern had a series of these cars, # 52000-52169, and the L&N had a series, #26000-26224. This L&N series is apparently ex- NC&StL, which the instruction sheet does not list as an original owner. The instructions are nebulous on whether the model is the Pennsy G26, or the AAR 70t car. 

  My Questions are:  Is this kit accurate for a SOU or L&N/NC&StL car?

Are there any photos online? I've checked the obvious sites with no results.

Are there any drawings of this car available, online or in the hobby magazines?

Scott Haycock 

mopacfirst
 

Bruce:

Yes, I misspoke when I said the NYC 726013 had 18 panels.  It has 22, which is consistent with other data on 623-G cars.  It is not an "AAR" gon.  I haven't seen an NYC gon yet that could be called that.  But there are plenty of other prototypes that are, and that have the slope spanning five panels rather than 2-1/2 or 3.

The L&N gon shown above has four panels on the slope.  It too has a side stiffener, which would certainly be easy to add.  And there are two different groups of Southern cars shown above, one of which (52352) has 18 panels with five panels on the slope, and towing staples, while the other one (52049) is an older design with 24 panels but only two on the slope.

Ron Merrick

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Beginning to catch up on STMFC emails since CCB . . .

 

“The PRR car is pretty distinctive.  The first rib from each end, and the seventh rib from each end, are wider and the seventh rib from each end extends to the bottom of the fishbelly while the other ribs on the fishbelly portion do not.  I think this kit is relatively rare and I intend to build it. “

 

You mention two kits in one box.  The PRR version was a product of “Robin’s Rails,” back in the late 70s.  I’d been told by the proprietor of RR that it would be an accurate model of an ERIE car and bought one sight unseen.  Brutal disappointment.  It’s not.

 

I don’t think that ECW and Robin’s Rails had any connection.  I suspect someone had two 65’ gon models they decided they didn’t want and just put all the parts in one box – one eBay sale, two kits gone.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 8:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Eastern Car Works 65' mill gondolas

 

I have an ECW 3010 kit, unbuilt, which I just discovered contains two complete sets of components. I think I bought this one new.  I also, in the last couple years, bought off eBay an ECW 3000 kit, which is for the PRR G26.  Both are on list of kits to build in the next few years, since I have a steel fabricator on the railroad I'm modeling.

The PRR car is pretty distinctive.  The first rib from each end, and the seventh rib from each end, are wider and the seventh rib from each end extends to the bottom of the fishbelly while the other ribs on the fishbelly portion do not.  I think this kit is relatively rare and I intend to build it. 

 

I also have an unpainted Alco Models one, which I'd pass to someone who'd prefer a brass car.

Naturally, the G26 was thoroughly covered in a TKM issue some time back.

The ECW 3010 "AAR" version has 20 panels and the fishbelly begins at the second panel in from each end.  It has jacking pads just inboard from the first rib, which are visible on the NYC photo referenced above, and which are not on the others.  So perhaps it's closest to the NYC car, except for needing the top chord reinforcement as shown above.  This ECW car has the fishbelly slope spanning five panels, the third through seventh.  I think the Athearn car, like the one in the L&N photo above, has the fishbelly slope spanning only four panels, the third through sixth.

I painted a WAB and an ATSF version of the 65' gon starting with the Athearn model.  I can't find either one on the layout now, so I have to assume they're packed and at my other house.

As for the model itself, I'd compare it to a Sunshine flat kit, albeit perhaps easier to assemble since it has alignment grooves in the sides.  By being molded flat, there is detail on the interior sides and ends.

Ron Merrick