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freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim O'Connor
 

A collection of photos here - lots of interesting freight car bits and pieces

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Radio.WW2/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1995435020702484

Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Paul Doggett
 

Some great photos there Tim.

Paul Doggett England ūüŹīů†Āßů†ĀĘů†Ā•ů†Āģů†Āßů†ĀŅ

On 22 Feb 2019, at 14:51, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:


A collection of photos here - lots of interesting freight car bits and pieces

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Radio.WW2/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1995435020702484

Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

Tim,

Nice find!   There's a lot of photos of Santa Fe Caswell gons being cut up.  It's interesting that they have had the wood striped out and are being cut up upside down. Striping the wood out first is obviously done to prevent burning.  In one of the photos the one underframe appears to have been from a Caswell stock/coke car.

Tom Casey    


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 8:51 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947


A collection of photos here - lots of interesting freight car bits and
pieces


Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Charles Peck
 

In the late 1940's, grandfather would sometimes drive us down after dark to watch the L&N RR burning
wooden cars.  I remember there being five or six in a row but that there was at least one more row
behind.  Getting trucks and couplers out of the ashes would I guess have been straight forward.
The little stuff would get pulled out with the magnet crane.  Then bring in more cars once the
tracks were cleared.  
I have wondered what was done to protect the ties under the rails from burning.  Cover them
with something?  Flood them?  I don't know.  But it was quite a sight to see the flames at night
with sparks rising into the air. 
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 9:51 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

A collection of photos here - lots of interesting freight car bits and
pieces

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Radio.WW2/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1995435020702484

Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



dale florence <dwwesley@...>
 

I lived not to far from these photos, and they did burn cars. I remember the clouds of smoke coming from near the back end of there property. I still have memories of the Green Bay Western gray wood refer cars lined up for scrapping.

Dale Florence




On Friday, February 22, 2019, 10:18:32 AM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Tim,

Nice find!   There's a lot of photos of Santa Fe Caswell gons being cut up.  It's interesting that they have had the wood striped out and are being cut up upside down. Striping the wood out first is obviously done to prevent burning.  In one of the photos the one underframe appears to have been from a Caswell stock/coke car.

Tom Casey    


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 8:51 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947


A collection of photos here - lots of interesting freight car bits and
pieces


Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Bruce Smith
 

Charles,

In most cases, I believe that wooden cars were rolled to the side, off the track, before burning. This allowed the trucks, wheels, brakes etc.,, to be salvaged first and without damage from the flames and would have also spared the cross-ties.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 22, 2019, at 10:05 AM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

In the late 1940's, grandfather would sometimes drive us down after dark to watch the L&N RR burning
wooden cars.  I remember there being five or six in a row but that there was at least one more row
behind.  Getting trucks and couplers out of the ashes would I guess have been straight forward.
The little stuff would get pulled out with the magnet crane.  Then bring in more cars once the
tracks were cleared.  
I have wondered what was done to protect the ties under the rails from burning.  Cover them
with something?  Flood them?  I don't know.  But it was quite a sight to see the flames at night
with sparks rising into the air. 
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 9:51 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

A collection of photos here - lots of interesting freight car bits and
pieces

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Radio.WW2/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1995435020702484

Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*




Charles Peck
 

Yes, I agree that I would roll cars over onto their side if I had an interest in salvaging useful material, trucks and such.
Perhaps that was not the case in what I saw as I remember seeing a door fall off the car.  It made a big splash of embers
that really stood out in this boy's memory.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 11:42 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Charles,

In most cases, I believe that wooden cars were rolled to the side, off the track, before burning. This allowed the trucks, wheels, brakes etc.,, to be salvaged first and without damage from the flames and would have also spared the cross-ties.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




 



dale florence <dwwesley@...>
 

At the H-M plant, you could see the crane derricks from the street. They were located where they burned the cars. No EPA then. I know they would stack cars, and assumed they knocked cars over.
The plant was located on the Illinois/Indiana boarder. Plant was all in Illinois.The burning took place near the boarder.




On Friday, February 22, 2019, 2:37:37 PM EST, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:


Yes, I agree that I would roll cars over onto their side if I had an interest in salvaging useful material, trucks and such.
Perhaps that was not the case in what I saw as I remember seeing a door fall off the car.  It made a big splash of embers
that really stood out in this boy's memory.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 11:42 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Charles,

In most cases, I believe that wooden cars were rolled to the side, off the track, before burning. This allowed the trucks, wheels, brakes etc.,, to be salvaged first and without damage from the flames and would have also spared the cross-ties.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




 



Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

In most cases, I believe that wooden cars were rolled to the side, off the track, before burning. This allowed the trucks, wheels, brakes etc.,, to be salvaged first and without damage from the flames and would have also spared the cross-ties.

    Metallurgically, the fire would only have annealed the cast steel and iron parts, not even a bad thing in most cases.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





David
 

Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?

https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater

David Thompson

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

You can faintly make out the reporting marks as ATSF

Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001@...>
To: RealSTMFC <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 4:33 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?


David Thompson




Tim O'Connor
 

an Rr-19 perhaps?

On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?

https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater

David Thompson
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Bill Vaughn
 

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



John Barry
 

Tom,

I agree that this was likely not a reefer, but its also likely not a(n) (un)rebuilt furniture car.  

It has a faded A.T.S.F. MoW number that I read as 196825, it also has a partial faded number below the work series number that I read as 382.
The three vertically joined end panels, lack of brake step, vertical brake shaft, grab iron end ladder, and single panel on the side are all consistent with the as built configuration of the Bx-Z.  The dark (black?) lettering on a light (grey?) carbody are also indicative of non-revenue service.  The style of the ATSF with periods but no ampersand date the re-paint/re-stencil to 1938-1943.

I would say that it was likely that the car was retired from MoW service and scrapped as A.T.S.F. Wx-Z 196825.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, February 22, 2019, 8:25:48 PM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

John.  

Looks like you've got it!   The other cars that are interesting are those having ends made from Murphy gondola ends mounted vertically.

Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: John Barry <northbaylines@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2019 6:51 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tom,

I agree that this was likely not a reefer, but its also likely not a(n) (un)rebuilt furniture car.  

It has a faded A.T.S.F. MoW number that I read as 196825, it also has a partial faded number below the work series number that I read as 382.
The three vertically joined end panels, lack of brake step, vertical brake shaft, grab iron end ladder, and single panel on the side are all consistent with the as built configuration of the Bx-Z.  The dark (black?) lettering on a light (grey?) carbody are also indicative of non-revenue service.  The style of the ATSF with periods but no ampersand date the re-paint/re-stencil to 1938-1943.

I would say that it was likely that the car was retired from MoW service and scrapped as A.T.S.F. Wx-Z 196825.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, February 22, 2019, 8:25:48 PM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Michael Gross
 

I think we're very definitely in Santa Fe territory here:  in addition to the plated end car already identified, in other photos I see what looks like one intact Caswell gondola, another in the process of disassembly, and numerous ATSF wooden work cars recycled from DS box cars.

Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA

charles slater
 

It is NOT one of the two flat plate end Rr-19's as they had only 1 horizontal seam on the end plats, Ajax hand brake and a ladder on the end.
Charlie Slater  

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 3:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947
 
Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



charles slater
 

Tom there are two numbers on the end both are ATSF. The original number starts with 382--- and a M of W number is 196825 or 195825 not sure a 5 and 6 are very similar.
Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947
 
Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io (atsfmodlr@...)To:you (Bcc) + 1 more Details
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



charles slater
 

I agree with you John it was a Bx-Z changed to a Wx-Z in M of W service.
Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of John Barry <northbaylines@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2019 4:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947
 
Tom,

I agree that this was likely not a reefer, but its also likely not a(n) (un)rebuilt furniture car.  

It has a faded A.T.S.F. MoW number that I read as 196825, it also has a partial faded number below the work series number that I read as 382.
The three vertically joined end panels, lack of brake step, vertical brake shaft, grab iron end ladder, and single panel on the side are all consistent with the as built configuration of the Bx-Z.  The dark (black?) lettering on a light (grey?) carbody are also indicative of non-revenue service.  The style of the ATSF with periods but no ampersand date the re-paint/re-stencil to 1938-1943.

I would say that it was likely that the car was retired from MoW service and scrapped as A.T.S.F. Wx-Z 196825.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, February 22, 2019, 8:25:48 PM EST, tyesac@... via Groups.Io <tyesac@...> wrote:


Bill,

The two SFRD Rr-19's with flat plate steel ends were made with two steel sheets and joined with a single horizontal seam.  Also, those had AJAX hand brakes and the end reporting marks would be "SFRD" instead of  "AT&SF".   The twisted visible roof framing, the "Y" looking parts, imply this could be an older Fe- class car that hand been rebuilt.

Tom Casey
Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io (atsfmodlr@...)To:you (Bcc) + 1 more Details
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Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Vaughn via Groups.Io <atsfmodlr@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] freight cars being scrapped in 1947

Tim I don't think so the 1947 picture shows a ladder where your picture shows grab irons.  Also I believe both Rr-19 with flat ends lasted more that 11 years from rebuilding.

Bill Vaughn

On Friday, February 22, 2019, 3:38:33 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



an Rr-19 perhaps?


On 2/22/2019 5:33 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
> Would anyone have a guess what this car was? The other cars are Pere
> Marquette USRA ds box derivatives, but this one is Santa Fe?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/photos/a.1995435020702484/1995435100702476/?type=3&theater
>
>
> David Thompson



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*