White material protruding from car doors.


np328
 

   A while ago, I recall a string about a closed door boxcar with white material protruding from the doors with the query - what could it be? 
Was that ever resolved?  

    While looking over some photos one prompted an "a-ha" moment.    
For those who care to see, lots to study. Car chalking, switch tags, a RI and M&StL car.  An example to model of a car being loaded. 
First photo and second give evidence of what I think was the white material seen.    
Library of Congress - John Vachon - 1939 - I do not recall these being photos discussed here prior.   

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04764v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04759v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04765v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04760v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04504v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04503v.jpg
No Pillsbury doughboy seen anywhere. 
  
First photo - upper left of the door - "New plastic roof"  (?) 
First three photos - that white material seen prior - could this be it? 
Photos five and six - look how TIGHT the side sheathing is. No deep grooves. 
Last photo - all the chalk marks.                                              

       Photos taken at Pillsbury A mill in old St. Anthony Main area of Twin Cities. In the future well beyond the time line of this list, the tracks the cars are on will be torn out, concrete poured,  then rails set in place with concrete poured up to the railhead height to give "historic atmosphere".  The mills will be refurbished into condos where if you have to ask "how much?" well..... yes... that much. 

And in the future beyond this lists time I will walk around here with my wife from time to time on the Mississippi river front over looking where once St. Anthony Falls fell and Jim Hill built his stone arch bridge and we will duck into a nice café overlooking over the river.                                                                      Jim Dick - St. Paul 

As a modeling note, I think I need to add some white material, perhaps thin plastic....around some boxcars shipping flour.  

                 Print this one and post it by the freight house: http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3g00000/3g07000/3g07900/3g07903v.jpg



Edward
 

The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer 


Stic Harris
 

Ed, do you know if they reused the cloth flour bags? Or were they one and done?

Thanks,

Stic Harris

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 8:19 AM Edward <edb8391@...> wrote:
The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer 



--


- Stic


Dennis Storzek
 

They were "one and don" except the cloth went on to many secondary uses; a major source of rags and industrial wipes. Used bags made good aprons, any housewife could do it with a bit of sewing. At one time some bags were even printed with a pattern to encourage this. I recall finding a stash of these bags when I cleaned out my grandmother's house.

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 

Not all of the photos appear to show the same bags. Could some be beans, or sugar?

Tim O'

On 4/3/2019 8:19 AM, Edward wrote:
The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Gary Ray
 

My mother grew up in the Texas Panhandle (Wellington) in the 1930’s.  She told me how she would trade flour bags with print patterns with other girls to get enough to make dresses.  She has lots of stories about growing up during the depression on her dad’s farm.  Even wrote a short book about it.  I’m blessed that she is still here at 93 sharing her recollections.

 

Gary Ray

Magalia, CA

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 5:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] White material protruding from car doors.

 

They were "one and don" except the cloth went on to many secondary uses; a major source of rags and industrial wipes. Used bags made good aprons, any housewife could do it with a bit of sewing. At one time some bags were even printed with a pattern to encourage this. I recall finding a stash of these bags when I cleaned out my grandmother's house.

Dennis Storzek


Virus-free. www.avast.com


np328
 

Beans or Sugar from a flour mill?  Not likely.  
I would offer milling by-products that could be shipped as farm feed.
Google up    flour mill by-products      and find a listing, however as to what is really in the other bags is just a guess.    Jim Dick 


np328
 

Ed,
           thank you for relaying your experiences. 
After seeing what you wrote, I looked back and in the first photo, seen underneath the open door are remnants of bags.
Broken bags appear to be on the floor on the right side of the doorway in the boxcar.                              Jim 


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Dennis,

    As we both know, you aren't that much younger than me so I'm surprised it was your grandmother that kept the printed cotton
flour bags rather than your mother. Perhaps your grandmother had access to them and your mother did not. In any case in the
postwar years into the early 1950's a lot of types of grain were bagged in calico cotton bags. I know that chick feed, pig feed and 
calf feed was but not the coarser dairy and horse feeds. It was more that were made from these bags and it was always interesting
to see a farm wife looking for a particular pattern on a bag of feed because she didn't have enough cloth of that particular pattern for
something she wished to make. My own sister had nice dresses made from this material and so did several of my elementary school
classmates that came from farm families. I wish we had those days back now for dairymen. We are down to only 750 farms left in
Vermont when we used to have more than that in one county. To keep Mike happy I should mention that the vast majority of feed
stocks in those days was delivered to the destination area from the grain mills by rail. The Processed In Transit rates applied to
both the raw grains moving by rail to the feed mills, of which we had many in Vermont in those years, and shipment of the finished
grain to the local dealer as well. In the early 1960's I used to help a close friend deliver two 40 ft. boxcar loads of grain shipped from
the H. K Webster (Blue Seal Feeds) plant that is right tight to the Canadian Border in Richford, VT to the public delivery track in 
Waterbury every other Monday and Tuesday afternoon, once he was done with his milk (in 40 qt. cans) route in the morning. The 
H. K. Webster mill was switched by the CPR but much of the grain was taken only two miles to the interchange with the Central 
Vermont's Missisquoi Valley Branch.

My best, Don Valentine


Marty McGuirk
 

Here’s a Sanborn Map of the feed mill in Richford, Vermont dating to 1920.  


Based on the freight cars, I believe this photo is later than the map shown - but predates the addition of the silos. (Sorry, I can’t credit the photo, I purchased it on eBay a few years ago and there’s nothing but a number written on the back).

 

Marty McGuirk


On Apr 3, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

    As we both know, you aren't that much younger than me so I'm surprised it was your grandmother that kept the printed cotton
flour bags rather than your mother. Perhaps your grandmother had access to them and your mother did not. In any case in the
postwar years into the early 1950's a lot of types of grain were bagged in calico cotton bags. I know that chick feed, pig feed and 
calf feed was but not the coarser dairy and horse feeds. It was more that were made from these bags and it was always interesting
to see a farm wife looking for a particular pattern on a bag of feed because she didn't have enough cloth of that particular pattern for
something she wished to make. My own sister had nice dresses made from this material and so did several of my elementary school
classmates that came from farm families. I wish we had those days back now for dairymen. We are down to only 750 farms left in
Vermont when we used to have more than that in one county. To keep Mike happy I should mention that the vast majority of feed
stocks in those days was delivered to the destination area from the grain mills by rail. The Processed In Transit rates applied to
both the raw grains moving by rail to the feed mills, of which we had many in Vermont in those years, and shipment of the finished
grain to the local dealer as well. In the early 1960's I used to help a close friend deliver two 40 ft. boxcar loads of grain shipped from
the H. K Webster (Blue Seal Feeds) plant that is right tight to the Canadian Border in Richford, VT to the public delivery track in 
Waterbury every other Monday and Tuesday afternoon, once he was done with his milk (in 40 qt. cans) route in the morning. The 
H. K. Webster mill was switched by the CPR but much of the grain was taken only two miles to the interchange with the Central 
Vermont's Missisquoi Valley Branch.

My best, Don Valentine


Clark Propst
 

When the local cement plants were using cloth bags there was a deposit on the bags and a refund when returned. Stations would hold the bags till they had enough to warrant returning. The plants had a machine to clean the returned bags and hired women to mend them. My wife's grandmother worked at that job for awhile. The plant I worked at still have one of the heavy duty sewing machines. It was used to mend our winter clothing.
CW Propst


Clark Propst
 

At our retirees breakfast this morning I knew a guy I worked with started in the rail yard. I asked if they still used cloth bags when he hired on (1952)? He said they'd switched to paper, but there were still cloth bags around. 
I knew he'd been on the car cleaning crew and was a car sealer. Today he told me he was also a "Car boss". I asked what that was. He was the guy that inspected and prepared the car for loading. Which meant putting down layers of heavy gray paper on the floor. They still had rolls of that paper for years after I started. We used it as skirting on our modular layout. Anyways, the car boss was paid by the hour while the guys 'trucking' in the cement sacks were piece workers, his title didn't make up for the wage difference  : /
CW Propst