RI 133510 from flour loading topic


mopacfirst
 

Great shot of this Rock Island boxcar from the series on flour loading --

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg

My question is, what is it, detail-wise?  I'm not home to look up this series, but I can check the Sunshine list online and it's broadly similar to the 140000 series, same door, perhaps same roof, probably same or similar size, can't see the ends.  Only obvious difference is the diagonals point the opposite way.  Yes, one is Howe and one is Pratt but I haven't needed to tell the difference in my professional life since I finished my static analysis class in 1970.

Anyway, is there an easily achievable model of this car in HO?

Ron Merrick


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 4/3/2019 9:38 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
My question is, what is it, detail-wise? 

    I find it interesting that the weight decals are not in alignment.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Schleigh Mike
 

Nice photo of RI 133510!

Rock Island 133000-133999 are "B-2" cars from Bett. Co. (first 500) and AC&F (second 500).  All had Murphy radial roofs, Dreadnaught ends, and were built in 1927.  The first group had AJAX handrakes and the second Klassing Universal W-2000.  Westerfield referred to them as Fowler "clones" but never got to produce them or the slightly earlier 157500-158699.  Both cars had side designs very similar to the 1915 era cars Al did produce which gives pause to consider these as kit bashing input.

The 133000 cars have been under consideration by at least one other resin kit producer.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.

On Wednesday, April 3, 2019, 12:38:32 PM EDT, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Great shot of this Rock Island boxcar from the series on flour loading --

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg

My question is, what is it, detail-wise?  I'm not home to look up this series, but I can check the Sunshine list online and it's broadly similar to the 140000 series, same door, perhaps same roof, probably same or similar size, can't see the ends.  Only obvious difference is the diagonals point the opposite way.  Yes, one is Howe and one is Pratt but I haven't needed to tell the difference in my professional life since I finished my static analysis class in 1970.

Anyway, is there an easily achievable model of this car in HO?

Ron Merrick


mopacfirst
 

Thanks for the great, specific, reply.

I'll finish my 141000 that's got almost all the grabs and ladders attached, then wait for one of these.  Unrelated note -- I just finished a Sunshine 161000 40' double-door car, with decals from a Mask Island set that was 'close enough'.  I'm starting to perfect a technique for wood running boards on resin cars, of leaving the boards off when I paint the car, then brush-painting with mixtures of Tru-Color weathered and seasoned wood.  So far, so good, said the person who can't see some of those colors anyway.

Ron Merrick


John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Well,

Sometimes it seems the 12 inch/foot guys don’t take the time to make their stuff look as good as the small scale modelers do.

Maybe their eye sight is getting poor.

John Hagen

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jon Miller
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2019 11:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RI 133510 from flour loading topic

 

On 4/3/2019 9:38 AM, mopacfirst wrote:

My question is, what is it, detail-wise? 

    I find it interesting that the weight decals are not in alignment.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


np328
 

Ron, 
     Howe or Pratt,
  I believe if you can put (imagine) a capital P will fit within the confines of the right side of the door frame, the roof line, and the diagonal truss, it is a Pratt.   P on the right = Pratt
If it fits where the "and" is left of the door, it is a Howe.    So I believe this is Howe. 
Someone correct me on that if I am wrong.                                                                                                      Jim Dick 


Storey Lindsay
 

Jim,

 

Look at the diagonals – if they slope UP towards the center, it is a Howe; if they slope DOWN towards the center (except for the end diagonals), it is a Pratt.

 

Storey Lindsay
Celje, Slovenia

 

From: np328
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 8:54
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RI 133510 from flour loading topic

 

Ron, 
     Howe or Pratt,
  I believe if you can put (imagine) a capital P will fit within the confines of the right side of the door frame, the roof line, and the diagonal truss, it is a Pratt.   P on the right = Pratt
If it fits where the "and" is left of the door, it is a Howe.    So I believe this is Howe. 
Someone correct me on that if I am wrong.                                                                                                      Jim Dick 

 


Bruce Smith
 

Correct - this is a Howe truss.  Lots of tricks out there. I learned that if the diagonals to the left of the center (door) form the slanted leg of the letter "R" then it is a pRatt truss. If the diagonals form a "W" leaning towards the center, then it is a hoWe truss.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 1:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RI 133510 from flour loading topic
 
Ron, 
     Howe or Pratt,
  I believe if you can put (imagine) a capital P will fit within the confines of the right side of the door frame, the roof line, and the diagonal truss, it is a Pratt.   P on the right = Pratt
If it fits where the "and" is left of the door, it is a Howe.    So I believe this is Howe. 
Someone correct me on that if I am wrong.                                                                                                      Jim Dick 


Andy Carlson
 

Pratt or Truss? A very easy distinquishing way (for me); if the diagonals are in compression--it is a Howe. Otherwise, a diagonal in tension would be a Pratt.

This goes back to wood bridge construction which was passed on to car builders for decades. Wood timbers are far better at supporting trusses when they are in compression, and wooden truss bridges reflected that advantage in the Howe truss. After steel bridges became popular, the advantage for steel was in their tension (the resisting stretching being a better use of steel than compression). This was the use in Pratt trusses.

Of course, railroads often used the old wood style of trusses in car building, and much steel was wasted in making Howe trusses out of steel. The subject car is an example.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 1:35:00 AM PDT, Storey Lindsay <storey.lindsay@...> wrote:


Jim,

 

Look at the diagonals – if they slope UP towards the center, it is a Howe; if they slope DOWN towards the center (except for the end diagonals), it is a Pratt.

 

Storey Lindsay
Celje, Slovenia

 

From: np328
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 8:54
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RI 133510 from flour loading topic

 

Ron, 
     Howe or Pratt,
  I believe if you can put (imagine) a capital P will fit within the confines of the right side of the door frame, the roof line, and the diagonal truss, it is a Pratt.   P on the right = Pratt
If it fits where the "and" is left of the door, it is a Howe.    So I believe this is Howe. 
Someone correct me on that if I am wrong.                                                                                                      Jim Dick 

 


Dennis Storzek
 

Both the Howe and Pratt trusses performed equally well in steel freight car construction, but the Howe was better suited to wood construction, since the tension members of the truss were shorter, needing not so much iron rod. IN THEORY the Pratt truss would be more efficient in steel construction, since the longer diagonal tension members could be simple round rods... in a bridge. The problem with freight cars was the tension members serve double duty as stiffeners for the lining, so must be as heavy a section as the side posts, negating any advantage of the Pratt truss design.

The easiest way to remember which is which is ALL freight cars use a Howe truss except those that look backwards, which are Pratt trusses.

Dennis Storzek


Tony Thompson
 

Andy Carlson wrote:

Pratt or Truss? A very easy distinquishing way (for me); if the diagonals are in compression--it is a Howe. Otherwise, a diagonal in tension would be a Pratt.

      Exactly, and well said, Andy. There is, of course, an engineer's eyeball peering through that message.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history