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RI 133510 from flour loading topic (Look At The Boards)
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Notice the individual boards comprising the side sheathing on this car are almost imperceptible.
Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Andy Carlson
On Thursday Bob Chaparro wrote:
Notice the individual boards comprising the side sheathing on this car are almost imperceptible. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA ************************** See any differences between real and model? Good morning, everybody! -Andy Carlson Ojai CA _._,_._,_ |
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Dave Parker
And imagine how much less perceptible the boards were when the car was new ca. 12 years earlier. I have some 1920s builder's photos where the individual boards are virtually impossible to make out.
Andy, I gather you share my frustration with the majority of SS car models out there. I will refrain from ranting, but this is an area of much-needed improvement in available prototype models, plastic and resin. Dave Parker Riverside, CA |
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Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
the problem isn't with the cars, it's the manufacturer's perception of what their customers want. I believe it's been tried before, but nobody bought the cars... so they now exagerate the gaps between the boards, as well as exagerating the grain (notice any visible grain in the RI car? Me neither.) Only very heavily weathered cars show grain. Bill Daniels San Francisco, CA
On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 8:20:31 AM PDT, Dave Parker via Groups.Io <spottab@...> wrote:
And imagine how much less perceptible the boards were when the car was new ca. 12 years earlier. I have some 1920s builder's photos where the individual boards are virtually impossible to make out. Andy, I gather you share my frustration with the majority of SS car models out there. I will refrain from ranting, but this is an area of much-needed improvement in available prototype models, plastic and resin. Dave Parker Riverside, CA |
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Andy Carlson
From: Dave Parker And imagine how much less perceptible the boards were when the car was new ca. 12 years earlier. I have some 1920s builder's photos where the individual boards are virtually impossible to make out. Andy, I gather you share my frustration with the majority of SS car models out there. I will refrain from ranting, but this is an area of much-needed improvement in available prototype models, plastic and resin. Dave Parker Riverside, CA ********************************* My earliest attempts at single sheathed pattern making for HO cars was decided before my start to have "less perceptible" individual boards. I had quickly discovered in making scale drawings of SS cars, that the need to count boards was necessary to get the board dimension heights. It was often necessary to jump from panels-to-panels when counting boards from photos, as the board separations often could not be determined. My collaborator friend in my early pattern making days was chastised sufficiently hard enough by me that he moved away from evergreen Siding for SS cars. My 1st Single Sheathed HO pattern is shown below. I have received complaints from fine modelers that my scribing was too faint, and if Floquil paint was used, they were probably right. Dave, I have disliked overly exagerated scribing for decades. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA BTW-this is a steel Howe truss frame WP car. Mm _,_._,_*** |
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np328
I have some photos in a file of this group of the same lament. They have been there for a while. https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/files/Wood%20Sided%20Freight%20Car%20Debate
It is also why I made note of how tight the boards are in the original posting. I talked with a resin builder at Cocoa ..five(?)..years ago. And they stated in reply almost exactly the first and second sentence Bill you wrote. My primary modeled railroad is the NP, and they used wood in sheathing of their cars well past when others went to steel, and later photos do not show warped distressed boards. The inspectors at the NP shops took pride in having above average maintenance of their car fleet, and would have had substandard cars shopped. I have copies of internal letters where this is noted. Rather well maintained cars as in your example Andy. I would purchase cars with sides like that. I would prefer cars with sides like you did. Perhaps they need to be marketed as "correct to scale wood sheathing" or something like that. Dave, it is not a rant. It is a most valid concern. So carry on speaking out about it. Folks here speak about proper brake wheels or brake pipe runs or side tabs, sheathing to scale is certainly within a topic of review. When ever I am presenting, and a photo of a SS car with tight sheathing like the RI car comes up, I take a second to point it out. Once folks are aware of this, they will notice it more and more. Jim Dick - Roseville MN |
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Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
The only kit (in HO) that I know of that made an attempt to do something like this is the Gould/Tichy USRA boxcar. Instead of scribing the wood boards Bill Gould placed the alternating boards at slightly different heights, giving the impression of separate boards without the highly out of scale groves so common in most models.
Bill Daniels |
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Dave Parker
A few more thoughts:
I can't say I am a huge fan of the Gould/Tichy USRA car. Yes, it's better than the many that have what is essentially horizontal V-groove siding. But the offsets between adjacent boards are exaggerated -- quite a few seem to be ~0.3 inches scale. This would only be prototypical if the tongues (7/16" thick) had failed completely. I don't see this on lightly or moderately weathered cars. The most common occurrence seems to be transverse cupping of the boards, suggesting the use of flat-sawn lumber rather than the preferred/recommended quarter-sawn. Often, but not always, there are small but irregular gaps between the boards. Peeling paint is not uncommon, but more rarely do I see checks and splits (shakes), at least on SS box cars. These are not grain however, which you would not be able to discern in HO scale. Andy, I like your pattern work just fine and would buy cars with such siding if I could find them. The only one I currently have that really fills the bill is a Sunshine 91.5 B&M XM-1 (photo attached). I don't know who did the pattern-work for Martin here, but I think is is very well done. I am working on this kit now, and I appreciate Andy's heads-up about not obscuring the fine detail with paint (I have high hopes for my Vallejo acrylics). Last, Andy I don't think one should have to count the boards on these SS cars. The MCB/ARA recommended practice called for 5.25" square-edge T&G on all "outside framed" cars. So a 9-0 IL car should have about 20 boards, and a 10-0 car about 23. I zipped through about a dozen example photos for various roads, and I couldn't find any exceptions. Thanks to all for an informative discussion. I plan to continue hectoring manufacturers about this issue, and hope that you will too. Dave Parker Riverside, CA |
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Andy Carlson
Dave Parker wrote:
A few more thoughts: Last, Andy I don't think one should have to count the boards on these SS cars. The MCB/ARA recommended practice called for 5.25" square-edge T&G on all "outside framed" cars. So a 9-0 IL car should have about 20 boards, and a 10-0 car about 23. I zipped through about a dozen example photos for various roads, and I couldn't find any exceptions. **************** I have done dozens of scale drawings for mid-century freight cars years ago, and all of them had no readily available drawings to assist me. Counting boards was essential for an accurate drawing. Not all cars, I discovered, had the same board dimensions. Some GN cars had different cars from the same class series with thin board samples and broad board samples. I found cars which had different board sizes on the same car. So to me, counting boards gave me 100% accuracy for at least the one car pictured! I guess what I am trying to say is please understand that not all cars were built with same size sheathings. All of this talk is making me want to resume pattern making, a very fun part of this hobby. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA _._,_._,_
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