Topics

Doors with inside detail


StephenK
 

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay


Tony Thompson
 

Sounds like it would work. It won’t be handled, so if you can get it installed it should be fine.
Tony Thompson 


On Apr 13, 2019, at 1:24 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Stephen,

Why not scratch build a door with at least minimal detail on the inside? All you need is a photo of a Superior door from the back (maybe a car interior shot), some thin styrene sheet and strip, and a lot of little tiny rivets, maybe from Archer. You might consider making a few extras and stashing them for the future.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/13/19 4:24 PM, StephenK wrote:
I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay


Brian Carlson
 

Steve. The steel ribs, actually steel bar only appeared on the outside of superior doors. The inside would be flat steel plate. 

On Apr 13, 2019, at 4:24 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay


Bill Welch
 

Based on what Brian says my approach may have been wrong but on one of my Sunshine 1932 models. Clinchfield I think. I spliced together two Menzes/Athearn metal doors to get the correct rib count. I left the bare metal unpainted as there was some real rust and the bare metal reflected whatever light gets on it.

Bill Welch


Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 01:48 PM, Brian Carlson wrote:
Steve. The steel ribs, actually steel bar only appeared on the outside of superior doors. The inside would be flat steel plate. 
In reality they are not bars, but ribs pressed into the bottom edge of each sheet that assembles into the door. Each sheet laps over the open pressing on the sheet above and is welded top and bottom, forming a series of closed box sections that give the door its strength. However, it is correct that other than the weld seems, the inside of the door is smooth. Here is a drawing with a sectional view of a typical Superior door: Superior Door

Dennis Storzek


Bob Chaparro
 

Anyone know why the journal lids on this car were painted...apparently silver?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


StephenK
 

Thanks to all for the info.   It turns out I was mistaken--the doors are YOUNGSTOWN.   This is what happens when you are elbow deep in several projects at once.   Nevertheless, Dennis's link to the N&W Historical Society gave me good info.   I am thinking now of using the aluminum foil idea and reinforcing it with glue or something on the outside for strength.   This will only look good from one side, but, of course, I will keep the kit door with the car in case I decide to operate the car normally.

Steve Kay


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bob,

The message from which you are quoting is gone off my machine. Your message, and those of several others, do not quote the thread.

From my limited experience journal lids on early roller bearing conversions were painted yellow on some roads for recognition by the car tonks. I see no reason silver could not be used for the same purpose. Later some lines just removed the lids upon conversion.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/14/19 12:04 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone know why the journal lids on this car were painted...apparently silver?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


steve_wintner
 

I wonder if you could carefully make an aluminum foil impression, and then mount that to the inside of the kit door.

If you mount it and trim it carefully, it would fit into the kit door opening, and look about right even though it's not in the correct position. Seems like it might be worth a try.

Have fun
Steve


Tim O'Connor
 


Not true, at least not in all cases. Many doors had no interior lining.

This photo attached shows the back side of corrugated doors. I agree with Tony, the aluminum foil
should work fine - or you can use styrene strips glued to the back side of the door. Personally I have
not bothered on cars I have modeled with an open or partially open door. You can only appreciate
such details in close up photography. I'm leaning more towards Hendrickson's attitude that if you
can't see it (easily, during normal use), then what's the point?

Not that I don't appreciate the "museum" quality stuff... ;-)

Tim O'



On 4/13/2019 4:48 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io wrote:
Steve. The steel ribs, actually steel bar only appeared on the outside of superior doors. The inside would be flat steel plate. 

See the photo from Gene Greene’s blog post. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/myp48.wordpress.com/2018/01/08/modeling-more-information-on-doors/amp/


Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 13, 2019, at 4:24 PM, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I am assembling an old IMWX 1937 AAR Boxcar.   I have an interior detail kit and am planning on modeling the car with one door open.   The wooden floor and walls from the kit will show thru.   But the door that comes with the kit has no detail on the inside.   I know this almost never makes a difference, but it would be cool if I could show the inside corrugations of the closed door.   (It is a Superior door).   I thought about using the outside detail as a mold and  pressing aluminum foil on it, which would probably work but would really be delicate.   

Any ideas?

Steve Kay


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Bill Welch
 


Joe Pauley
 


Richard Townsend
 

If you want to use the stamped Athearn/Menzies/Baker doors you will have to do some cutting and reassembly. The doors have the placard boards stamped into them as well as the corrugations. It’s not difficult (I have done it). Maybe the auxiliary doors from a double door kit don’t have that issue.


Bill Welch
 

I noted that in my post on April 13 I cut the door in Sections and re-assembled to get the proper look of the corrugations.

Bill Welch


Richard Townsend
 

My oversight


Andy Carlson
 

A little work, but builds up a foundation of skills which can be very useful in the future.

If I wanted an inside piece of a Youngstown door, I would make a quick mold of a door with either the craft store Michael's  AMAZING PUTTY, an RTV type of product which makes good molds without mold boxes (easing the effort to make molds). If using this product, make sure the top of the mold (which will become the future "back" of the mold) is even and straight, as this will help keep castings straight afterwards. When the mold is cured, apply a good, even coating of petrolatum (Vaseline) to the cavity. Now add a new mix of putty, essentially making a door casting with RTV instead of resin. This "Mold-of-a-Mold" will make suitable inside parts of a Youngstown door with a coating of a small amount of JB Weld epoxy, the traditional type, available from Auto Parts Stores.

As a bonus, you also have a mold to make extra Youngstown doors. An alternative to the amazing Putty, is also found at an auto parts store. Buy a tube of high-temp 1200 degree exhaust gasket, such as made by Permatex. Build up thin coatings of this material with a flat sided toothpick several times until a casting of proper thickness is achieved.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


jerryglow2
 

See my post in the thread on grain level markings. It contains a PDF of interiors with doors.


StephenK
 

After potting around with this for a few weeks, I finally got a good result.   I tried several ways of pressing aluminum foil on the outside of the door, but nothing would get the detail to show properly.   An attempt at using strip styrene was more trouble than it was worth.  In addition, I realized that the kit door had latch detail molded in which would show on the inside.  I ended up making a simple casting.   I used a similar door out of my stash and carved off the latches, etc.   I attached the door to a sheet of plastic and poured Elmer's School Glue over the door.   I poked around in it to remove the bubbles and let it dry overnight.   The next day the glue was mostly dry and peeled off easily.  I ACC's it to the kit door, trimmed the excess and painted it Floquil Old Silver.   A little rust powder, and the door was done.   

A few other notes:  The wood interior walls had to be trimmed a bit to clear the kit roof.   I chose not to use the wood floor from the interior kit because it added a layer to the car that I though looked wrong--I painted the plastic kit floor instead.    I built bulkheads at each end of the car and filled the space with BBs for weight--a normal interior weight would add to the floor height and again I didn't want that.   I have left the car unweathered and the roof unattached until I decide what the load should be and get it built and installed (a car carrying bags of flour will have different weathering than a car carrying boxes of  merchandise).  In any case, the kit went together well and I am happy with the result.  


Paul Doggett
 

Stephen 

That’s looking really good.

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 26 May 2019, at 17:28, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

After potting around with this for a few weeks, I finally got a good result.   I tried several ways of pressing aluminum foil on the outside of the door, but nothing would get the detail to show properly.   An attempt at using strip styrene was more trouble than it was worth.  In addition, I realized that the kit door had latch detail molded in which would show on the inside.  I ended up making a simple casting.   I used a similar door out of my stash and carved off the latches, etc.   I attached the door to a sheet of plastic and poured Elmer's School Glue over the door.   I poked around in it to remove the bubbles and let it dry overnight.   The next day the glue was mostly dry and peeled off easily.  I ACC's it to the kit door, trimmed the excess and painted it Floquil Old Silver.   A little rust powder, and the door was done.   

A few other notes:  The wood interior walls had to be trimmed a bit to clear the kit roof.   I chose not to use the wood floor from the interior kit because it added a layer to the car that I though looked wrong--I painted the plastic kit floor instead.    I built bulkheads at each end of the car and filled the space with BBs for weight--a normal interior weight would add to the floor height and again I didn't want that.   I have left the car unweathered and the roof unattached until I decide what the load should be and get it built and installed (a car carrying bags of flour will have different weathering than a car carrying boxes of  merchandise).  In any case, the kit went together well and I am happy with the result.  

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