Topics

Details On The Road


Robert J. Amsler, Jr.
 

Wonderful detail.

 

 

Robert J. Amsler, Jr.

514 Dover Place

Saint Louis, Missouri 63111

(314) 606-6118  (Telephone)

(314) 754-2688  (Facsimile)

MPFan1@...

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Gross
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 6:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Details On The Road

 

Seems I get more modeling done in hotel rooms than at home.  One of the easiest projects on the road is adding small details, with a few parts and minimal tools.  The new door handles on this BLI NYC boxcar are a perfect example, with the molded handles replaced with flattened .008 brass rod.  It's a trifle "fiddley" as the flattened brass is quite delicate, but it makes for a lovely detail.  I did not use phosphor bronze as the harder wire was more resistant to being "squashed."
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

:



For anyone interested above is an example of the filked down door handles.  Obviously the top handle needs a little more refinement.

Bill Pardie


Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Dennis,
 
Thanks for the drawings.  Looks like my guestimates were pretty close.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Dennis Storzek
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Details On The Road
 
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 07:16 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
In most instances the width if the handle it dictated by the molded on anchors (just the handle is carved off in the cast doors).  I'm sure that someone has an accurate dimension that you  could use..
Here was the ARA recommendation from 1922:


Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 


Folks

Just FYI (a reminder) - Detail Associates included injected molded door handles in its #6213 set
of tack boards and door details. They are probably not as fine as the handmade wire handles but
they do have some fine detail that can only be appreciated under a microscope. :-)

Tim O'




On 4/27/2019 11:12 AM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 07:16 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
In most instances the width if the handle it dictated by the molded on anchors (just the handle is carved off in the cast doors).  I'm sure that someone has an accurate dimension that you  could use..
Here was the ARA recommendation from 1922:


Dennis Storzek

Attachments:

_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 07:16 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
In most instances the width if the handle it dictated by the molded on anchors (just the handle is carved off in the cast doors).  I'm sure that someone has an accurate dimension that you  could use..
Here was the ARA recommendation from 1922:


Dennis Storzek


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

In most instances the width if the handle it dictated by the molded on anchors (just the handle is carved off in the cast doors).  I'm sure that someone has an accurate dimension that you  could use..

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: George Corral <aileron44@...>
Date: 4/26/19 2:54 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Details On The Road

On modeling a boxcar door handle in HO.  I’m curious to know. 

 

What is the actual/typical prototype dimensions of the door handle Michael and others have modeled?

 

George Corral

La Grange, KY


Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi George.
 
After studying a number of PRR boxcar photos from Class X29 to Class X40B, my best guess is about 10 inches between bolt of rivet head centers, and the grip, if that’s the term, appears to be about eight inches long, give or take, with a diameter roughly half again that of a grab iron or ladder rung, so maybe an inch to an inch and a quarter.  In any event, if you’re replacing cast on detail, the length will pretty much be determined by the dimensions of the detail being replaced.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: George Corral
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Details On The Road
 

On modeling a boxcar door handle in HO.  I’m curious to know. 

 

What is the actual/typical prototype dimensions of the door handle Michael and others have modeled?

 

George Corral

La Grange, KY


George Corral
 

On modeling a boxcar door handle in HO.  I’m curious to know. 

 

What is the actual/typical prototype dimensions of the door handle Michael and others have modeled?

 

George Corral

La Grange, KY


Bill Welch
 

I use .010 brass wire and DO NOT anneal it. I use "Chain" nose pliers to create flat areas and regular needle to level it out the six-eight scale inches handle portion. I think the Chain nose may be same as Michael's 'Bead Landing.'  Think I will try the pliers George Toman refers to. While somewhat tedious, I find wire bending kind of meditative too.

Bill Welch


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Michael does an excellent job on all of his models and this is another example of his fine and creative work.  As an alternative I have achieved a similar effect by bending the handle in .010 or .012 brass wire, inserting the legs in the door and securing it with glue from the Bach and then  filing the face of the handle flat.  This could eliminagte much of the breakage.

Bill Pardie

On Apr 25, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Michael Gross <ActorMichaelGross@...> wrote:

Seems I get more modeling done in hotel rooms than at home.  One of the easiest projects on the road is adding small details, with a few parts and minimal tools.  The new door handles on this BLI NYC boxcar are a perfect example, with the molded handles replaced with flattened .008 brass rod.  It's a trifle "fiddley" as the flattened brass is quite delicate, but it makes for a lovely detail.  I did not use phosphor bronze as the harder wire was more resistant to being "squashed."
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA <IMG_2944.jpg>


jerryglow2
 

I used to use a piece of keystock to flatten wire in a vice (or a good smack)


gtws00
 

Nicely Done Michael. Those look great.
I use a pair of Xuron Short Nose Pliers 475C to flatten my wire. Others as well but really like these. I find I get a lot of force with these. As noted here by Jim and Tony on annealing I also find in my flatting when I have also used a match or lighter to heat and flatten, that when it cools that it is often much too soft. 
Attracted are a couple photos of the 475C and flattened brass in a couple sizes. Note the 475C has no rust. The shiny parts of the pliers were picking up a reflection making them look rusty
George Toman


O Fenton Wells
 

Very well done Michael, sometimes being on the road is not all bad!!
Fenton

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 7:03 PM Michael Gross <ActorMichaelGross@...> wrote:
Seems I get more modeling done in hotel rooms than at home.  One of the easiest projects on the road is adding small details, with a few parts and minimal tools.  The new door handles on this BLI NYC boxcar are a perfect example, with the molded handles replaced with flattened .008 brass rod.  It's a trifle "fiddley" as the flattened brass is quite delicate, but it makes for a lovely detail.  I did not use phosphor bronze as the harder wire was more resistant to being "squashed."
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Tony Thompson
 

Michael Gross wrote:

Bear in mind that the process of hardening and annealing brass is exactly the reverse of that used with steel:  brass is hardened when it is heated and allowed to cool slowly; it is softened or annealed when heated and cooled suddenly.

     Speaking as a metallurgist, this is certainly not true of everyday or common  brass, 30 percent zinc in copper (yellow brass). Heating rate won't matter, and cooling rate will matter little either, with slower cooling making for either no change, or softer brass. 
     Of course there are lots of alloys commonly called "brass" (maybe even some that can harden on slow cooling), and to make a general comment about "steel" is even worse. From the mild steel you buy at the hardware store, to high strength technical alloys, is a galaxy of difference.
      Heating brass to red heat and setting down to cool in air is what I would do to soften it, if it's yellow brass. And I wouldn't even do that if it isn't very hard to begin with. Small diameter brass wire normally is cold finished and hard enough to benefit from annealing, but it may already be partly or completely softened in processing before you get it.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Michael Gross
 

A good thought, Jim, and in future I might experiment with annealing the brass wire before or after it is flattened.  My suspicion is that the delicacy of the flattened wire has more to do with its extremely thin cross section, and that annealing may not help much.  Bear in mind that the process of hardening and annealing brass is exactly the reverse of that used with steel:  brass is hardened when it is heated and allowed to cool slowly; it is softened or annealed when heated and cooled suddenly.

Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA


frograbbit602
 

Very nice.
Lester Breuer


James Lackner
 

I have long forgotten the reason for doing it, but I recall "annealing" brass wire in the past.  This made it easier to work with, by heating it with a match or lighter, then letting it cool.

Maybe someone remembers the specifics of this method better than I am.

Jim Lackner


Michael Gross
 

Thanks for your comments, but this is an idea I recall seeing demonstrated by Bill Welch, George Toman, or some other fine modeler.  I used Details Associates WR 2502 .008 brass wire, and flattened it using a combination of the two pliers pictured here:  a Sears Craftsman flat needle-nose plier, and the other a 'Bead Landing' round-nosed plier I found among the bead making tools at Michael's craft store.  It's a bit tedious to work one's way along the wire, flattening it as you go, but these were the only tools I took on the road.  It would be interesting to see if the wire could could be flattened more quickly with one blow of a hammer, and I intend to give that a try when I return home.  (Be advised, the flattened brass wire is extremely delicate and breakable, and I must have tried this eight or ten times to get four workable pieces.)
 
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA


Scott
 

Wow that looks great!  Going to have to use that idea!

Scott McDonald


Kemal Mumcu
 

How do you flatten the wire? Hammer? Pliers?

Colin Meikle