Topics

Manufacturers Railway Mather box


mopacfirst
 

How correct is this car?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MANUFACTURERS-RAILWAY-MRS-GREEN-40-MATHER-Boxcar-by-Proto-2K-Walthers/264299931896?hash=item3d8980e8f8:g:IhIAAOSwXn9cw9I1

I'm aware they came in different heights.  I'm not in a position now to check my ORER copies.

Ron Merrick


Tim O'Connor
 


it's pretty accurate


On 4/29/2019 7:10 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
How correct is this car?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MANUFACTURERS-RAILWAY-MRS-GREEN-40-MATHER-Boxcar-by-Proto-2K-Walthers/264299931896?hash=item3d8980e8f8:g:IhIAAOSwXn9cw9I1

I'm aware they came in different heights.  I'm not in a position now to check my ORER copies.

Ron Merrick
_._,_._,_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


James SANDIFER
 

Richard Hendrickson was the consultant to Proto on these cars. MRS leased a number of the Mather cars between mid 1930s to the late 1950s. Paint scheme and number are correct.

A review of the cars was in the Railmodel Journal, August 2003.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 6:11 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

How correct is this car?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MANUFACTURERS-RAILWAY-MRS-GREEN-40-MATHER-Boxcar-by-Proto-2K-Walthers/264299931896?hash=item3d8980e8f8:g:IhIAAOSwXn9cw9I1

I'm aware they came in different heights.  I'm not in a position now to check my ORER copies.

Ron Merrick


Denny Anspach
 

Would  this be  the Manufacturer’s Railway reportedly out of St. Louis or the similarly named railroad that switched the Western Electric Hawthorne works in Cicero, IL?  (the latter owned by AT&T?).

Denny


Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Bruce Smith
 

Denny,

It’s the Anheuser-Busch owned railroad out of St. Louis

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

Would  this be  the Manufacturer’s Railway reportedly out of St. Louis or the similarly named railroad that switched the Western Electric Hawthorne works in Cicero, IL?  (the latter owned by AT&T?).

Denny


Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864





James SANDIFER
 

St. Louis

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Denny Anspach
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 1:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Would  this be  the Manufacturer’s Railway reportedly out of St. Louis or the similarly named railroad that switched the Western Electric Hawthorne works in Cicero, IL?  (the latter owned by AT&T?).

 

Denny

 

 

Denny S. Anspach, MD

Sacramento, CA 95864

 

 

 


mopacfirst
 

Steve, thanks for the reference.  I have all my RMJ and MM issues marked with small sticky tabs at the top, listing cars I would build (and by now, often have built) but not all the magazine holders are equally accessible in my bookshelves.

There was a Sunshine one on ebay last week, which of course was produced before the Proto car appeared.

Since my branchline connected more of less directly to St. Louis, I figured there was an off chance that one of these cars would have come to Wichita on occasion.

Ron Merrick


Tony Thompson
 

Denny Anspach wrote:

Would  this be  the Manufacturer’s Railway reportedly out of St. Louis or the similarly named railroad that switched the Western Electric Hawthorne works in Cicero, IL?  (the latter owned by AT&T?).

       The St. Louis one, owned by Anheuser-Busch. I have one of the MRS Mather box cars on my layout, and it delivers animal feed (spent malt) to a local farmer. I know the car is accurate because Richard Henrickson went to a lot of trouble over all the Mather cars.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:47 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
Would  this be  the Manufacturer’s Railway reportedly out of St. Louis or the similarly named railroad that switched the Western Electric Hawthorne works in Cicero, IL?  (the latter owned by AT&T?).
Denny, the switching lne in Cicero, IL was the Manufacturers Junction Ry.

Dennis Storzek
 


Chuck Cover
 

The Proto models do not have the Z-braces for the diagonals and I am not sure that they accurately model the correct height.  Buyer beware.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM


mopacfirst
 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick


Eric Hansmann
 

Mather produced boxcars with a few different interior heights. There were also some 36-foot Mather boxcars rolling around before 1930. Just because it is labeled as a Mather boxcar, stock car, or reefer does not mean they are all the same. They came from the same builder. IIRC, at one point the AC&Y had two series of Mather boxcars with different interior heights.

 

I suspect the Proto2000 models produced by Life-Like followed prototypes for certain time frames. Mather leased these cars and they were reused after leases expired. The cars returned to the Mather shops for repaint and reletter for the new lessee. You will need to consult the ORER for your modeling period to determine where the Mather cars were used.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick


Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 06:00 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.
Mather was remarkably consistent with the details of their car framing over the years; those channel section diagonals is one of the spotting features. Others were the use of round rod stock for sill steps, and their patented panel roof, which looked for all the world like a series of inverted baking pans.

Dennis Storzek 


Tony Thompson
 

Big surprise here, folks: proto2000 only made one height of Mather car. 
Tony Thompson 


On Apr 30, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Mather produced boxcars with a few different interior heights. There were also some 36-foot Mather boxcars rolling around before 1930. Just because it is labeled as a Mather boxcar, stock car, or reefer does not mean they are all the same. They came from the same builder. IIRC, at one point the AC&Y had two series of Mather boxcars with different interior heights.

 

I suspect the Proto2000 models produced by Life-Like followed prototypes for certain time frames. Mather leased these cars and they were reused after leases expired. The cars returned to the Mather shops for repaint and reletter for the new lessee. You will need to consult the ORER for your modeling period to determine where the Mather cars were used.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick


Tim O'Connor
 

Didn't Sunshine produce two heights of Mather box cars? Or was it the stock cars?

On 4/30/2019 9:00 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Brian Carlson
 

On Apr 30, 2019, at 3:36 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Didn't Sunshine produce two heights of Mather box cars? Or was it the stock cars?



mopacfirst
 

Probably the only Mather boxcar I would ever have use for is the MRS car.  I picked up one of the MRS low height cars, which could just barely fit into my timeframe.  The taller one, I'll have to be watching for but its prototype lasted long enough to truly be appropriate for me.  If Anheuser-Busch shipped byproducts of brewing to Kansas for ag use, I'm there.

I think I have enough Proto Mather stock cars for my needs.  I now need to build some of the others so the Mather cars don't unduly dominate the roster.  Same thing was true of gons -- I built enough of the Proto Bethlehem gons that it's taken me years of Tangent gons, and building F&C and Sunshine gons, that the proportions are now finally getting close to right.

Ron Merrick


Steven D Johnson
 

Proto 2000 produced the Mather boxcar decorated for Tennessee Central, but the TC prototypes were the taller version.  Sunshine produced the taller and correct TC model. 

 

I seem to recall hearing that the P2K Mather boxcars were based off their Mather stock car, thus the boxcar models were of the lower height version.

 

Steve Johnson

Nashville, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 11:37 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Big surprise here, folks: proto2000 only made one height of Mather car. 

Tony Thompson 


On Apr 30, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Mather produced boxcars with a few different interior heights. There were also some 36-foot Mather boxcars rolling around before 1930. Just because it is labeled as a Mather boxcar, stock car, or reefer does not mean they are all the same. They came from the same builder. IIRC, at one point the AC&Y had two series of Mather boxcars with different interior heights.

 

I suspect the Proto2000 models produced by Life-Like followed prototypes for certain time frames. Mather leased these cars and they were reused after leases expired. The cars returned to the Mather shops for repaint and reletter for the new lessee. You will need to consult the ORER for your modeling period to determine where the Mather cars were used.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick


Steven D Johnson
 

Clarification – The TC prototypes were 8’ 6” IH, taller than the what the P2K cars represent, which are 7’8” IH cars, if I recall correctly.

 

Steve Johnson

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven D Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 5:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Proto 2000 produced the Mather boxcar decorated for Tennessee Central, but the TC prototypes were the taller version.  Sunshine produced the taller and correct TC model. 

 

I seem to recall hearing that the P2K Mather boxcars were based off their Mather stock car, thus the boxcar models were of the lower height version.

 

Steve Johnson

Nashville, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 11:37 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Big surprise here, folks: proto2000 only made one height of Mather car. 

Tony Thompson 


On Apr 30, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Mather produced boxcars with a few different interior heights. There were also some 36-foot Mather boxcars rolling around before 1930. Just because it is labeled as a Mather boxcar, stock car, or reefer does not mean they are all the same. They came from the same builder. IIRC, at one point the AC&Y had two series of Mather boxcars with different interior heights.

 

I suspect the Proto2000 models produced by Life-Like followed prototypes for certain time frames. Mather leased these cars and they were reused after leases expired. The cars returned to the Mather shops for repaint and reletter for the new lessee. You will need to consult the ORER for your modeling period to determine where the Mather cars were used.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick


Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s a link to the August 2003 Railmodel Journal. Richard Hendrickson’s Mather boxcar article starts on page 45. He features prototype photos of the cars produced by Proto2000.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven D Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 6:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Clarification – The TC prototypes were 8’ 6” IH, taller than the what the P2K cars represent, which are 7’8” IH cars, if I recall correctly.

 

Steve Johnson

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven D Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 5:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Proto 2000 produced the Mather boxcar decorated for Tennessee Central, but the TC prototypes were the taller version.  Sunshine produced the taller and correct TC model. 

 

I seem to recall hearing that the P2K Mather boxcars were based off their Mather stock car, thus the boxcar models were of the lower height version.

 

Steve Johnson

Nashville, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 11:37 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

Big surprise here, folks: proto2000 only made one height of Mather car. 

Tony Thompson 


On Apr 30, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Mather produced boxcars with a few different interior heights. There were also some 36-foot Mather boxcars rolling around before 1930. Just because it is labeled as a Mather boxcar, stock car, or reefer does not mean they are all the same. They came from the same builder. IIRC, at one point the AC&Y had two series of Mather boxcars with different interior heights.

 

I suspect the Proto2000 models produced by Life-Like followed prototypes for certain time frames. Mather leased these cars and they were reused after leases expired. The cars returned to the Mather shops for repaint and reletter for the new lessee. You will need to consult the ORER for your modeling period to determine where the Mather cars were used.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick