Roof Name help


Lester Breuer
 

What roof type is in the enclosed photo?  My best guess is a Chicago-Cleveland Flexible Outside Metal roof.  Thank You for your time and effort to help in advance.
Lester Breuer


Bill Welch
 

Lester, it looks like a kit roof. Maybe if you tell us which kit, the someone may know which roof it should be. What I see  looks like a F&C casting intended to be a Hutchins roof.

Bill Welch


Lester Breuer
 

Bill Welch wrote, “Lester, it looks like a kit roof. Maybe if you tell us which kit, the someone may know which roof it should be. What I see  looks like a F&C casting intended to be a Hutchins roof.”
  
Bill it is a F&C kit #6652 roof for  CV/GTW double door box car which is per several sources is to be a Hutchins Dry Lading roof which this is definitely not.  Therefore, I know I have to replace this roof with a correct one; however, wondering what is the closest prototype roof if any this kit roof resembles.

Lester Breuer



Nelson Moyer
 

It looks like an attempt at a Murphy flat panel roof.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2019 11:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Roof Name help

 

Bill Welch wrote, “Lester, it looks like a kit roof. Maybe if you tell us which kit, the someone may know which roof it should be. What I see  looks like a F&C casting intended to be a Hutchins roof.”
  
Bill it is a F&C kit #6652 roof for  CV/GTW double door box car which is per several sources is to be a Hutchins Dry Lading roof which this is definitely not.  Therefore, I know I have to replace this roof with a correct one; however, wondering what is the closest prototype roof if any this kit roof resembles.

Lester Breuer


Bill Welch
 

Well actually it is what Steve thinks is a Hutchins roof. If you have an Accurail model w/their excellent Hutchins roof, it can be used to help detail the F&C roof: "V" like crimps on the very ends of the roof ribs; .010 styrene rod used to mimic the intermediate crimp in the roof panels; and an NBW towards the end of each roof rib. Or buy an Undec Accurail body—they are inexpensive—and cut the roof off. I have done that a few times too.

Bill Welch


Lester Breuer
 

Bill I agree.  I thought about the Acccurail roof; however, changed my mind.  This afternoon,  I installed the kit roof and scribed grooves between the roof ribs and in the grooves installed Plastruct .010” styrene round rod.  I have attached a photo of the result.
Lester Breuer


Bill Welch
 

Good start Lester. Are you sure the rib stamping in the middle of each panel extended to the edge?

Bill Welch


Dave Parker
 

I agree with Bill.  The drawings in the 1922 Cyc show the "riblets" stopping a few inches short of the eave.

Lester, your photo made me run downstairs and check my stash of unbuilt F&C kits.  It's not a large sample, but the only two kits with that "un-Hutchins" roof are the two CV auto cars (2- and 1.5-door versions).  Everything else has a very Hutchins DL look to iy, although one might complain that the details are a bit over-done, including the riblets.

My favorite rendition of the Hutchins is the Sylvan resin part, which seems simpler than carving up an Accurail body.  Alas, it is too long and with incorrect seam-cap spacing to fix the problem with the CV auto cars.  Perhaps ironically, the closest match to the needed roof that I have on hand is the F&C kit for the CV's 7000-series SS boxcars built a few years before the auto cars.  It's not perfect, but quite close, and I may try casting copies of it for the two auto cars.

Thanks for sharing; it was an important heads-up for me given the significance of the CV to my interests.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Bill Welch
 
Edited

I may at best the poorest person with a saw in this group and even I can saw the roof from the Accurail 8-panel car and that is before the razerblade saw became available.

Bill Welch


Kemal Mumcu
 

http://www.yarmouthmodelworks.com/index.php/ModelDetailParts/FreightCarParts#roofs

The Sylvan line went to Yarmouth model works. Only 8 bucks and available today.

Colin Meikle


Bill Welch
 

The Yarmouth roof lacks the "V" shaped stamping at the end of the roof ribs plus the stamping in the middle of the panel extends to the edge of the roof. I think this incorrect. The "V" shape can be carved and filed into the rib. Dick Bale's article in Dec. 2016 MRH has a good illustration of the Hutchins Roof

Bill Welch


Lester Breuer
 

I checked the drawings ( I was using) in the August 2001 Model Railroader drawn by Harold W. Russell where the center rib stamping looks to be to the roof edge, maybe an inch off; however, in the 1922 Car Builders as Dave Parker wrote the center rib stamping is a few inches  short of the roof edge.
Lester Breuer


Tom Madden
 

Is this the roof we're talking about? Taken at the Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, CA over 20 years ago.

Tom Madden


Bill Welch
 

Indeed Tom yes the classic and in its time the ubiquitous Hutchins roof.

Bill Welch


Lester Breuer
 

A little more work to get the Hutchins DL roof right.  It will wor for me.
Lester Breuer


Tim O'Connor
 

When did Hutchins adopt this style, with the two raised "ribs" instead
of just one?

Tim O'

On 5/6/2019 6:47 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
Indeed Tom yes the classic and in its time the ubiquitous Hutchins roof.

Bill Welch
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


David
 

The roof in that N&W pic is a Climax radial, by Chicago-Cleveland (the various Viking roofs are their best-known product). The large clamps on the seam caps are characteristic of C-C's all-steel roofs.

If you're thinking of the Cambre radial roof used on the last X29s, C&O and NKP's ARA 1932 boxes, and DT&I's USRA ds rebuilds, that one dates back to at least circa 1915 or so (though the early applications had diagonal ridges in the panels).

David Thompson


Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks David. So noted.

Tim O'

On 5/6/2019 8:29 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
The roof in that N&W pic is a Climax radial, by Chicago-Cleveland (the various Viking roofs are their best-known product). The large clamps on the seam caps are characteristic of C-C's all-steel roofs.

If you're thinking of the Cambre radial roof used on the last X29s, C&O and NKP's ARA 1932 boxes, and DT&I's USRA ds rebuilds, that one dates back to at least circa 1915 or so (though the early applications had diagonal ridges in the panels).

David Thompson
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 07:05 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
When did Hutchins adopt this style, with the two raised "ribs" instead
of just one?

Tim O'
toggle quoted message. . .

 

On 5/6/2019 6:47 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
Indeed Tom yes the classic and in its time the ubiquitous Hutchins roof.

Bill Welch


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Likely never, since it doesn't appear to be a Hutchins product. Best match I find is the Chicago-Cleveland "Climax" roof illustrated in the 1931 CBC. Note it's a circular style roof. The equivalent Hutchins product was their "Camber" roof, illustrated in the same source. It had a series of short ribs at a 45* angle in the panels.

Dennis Storzek