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There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

mopacfirst
 

I did just now go check on my Sunshine kit.  It's 73.8, and it has several ends of different styles so you can mix and match like Santa Fe did.  The sides are actually very nice, and the rivets are not giganto like the sales brochure made them look.  Frankly, that could have been a test car with sides from something Athearn.  The sides, incidentally, have the doors cast in place.  There's a little klugy surface at the left edge where something may have happened to the master, but the grabs should cover that.  The underframe casting is technically superb, with those four fishbelly frame members.

I'm definitely going to build this one, although frankly it could still be a couple years out.

Ron Merrick
mopacfirst
 

I have one, I know where it is.  I'll have to look at it. 

Ron Merrick
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 5/7/2019 5:36 PM, Bill Daniels via Groups.Io wrote:
Boy, those rivets look almost as substantial as the underframe!

    I have never seen that kit but that was my first thought.  Then I thought maybe the picture and lighting and shadows.  Has anyone actually looked/have/built that kit?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Boy, those rivets look almost as substantial as the underframe!

Bill Daniels 
Santa Rosa, CA


On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 3:25:01 PM PDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I photographed the car all over (except the roof) in the early 1990's and sent prints to Martin Lofton, hoping that Sunshine would be interested in doing these."

He eventually did.
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun73a.pdf


Ben Hom
Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I photographed the car all over (except the roof) in the early 1990's and sent prints to Martin Lofton, hoping that Sunshine would be interested in doing these."

He eventually did.
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun73a.pdf


Ben Hom
Tim O'Connor
 

Don

I photographed the car all over (except the roof) in the early 1990's and sent prints to Martin Lofton,
hoping that Sunshine would be interested in doing these.

I, too, was very impressed by that massive underframe. I took a number of pictures of that!

Tim O'Connor


On 5/7/2019 4:21 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:

Thank you Tim,

    My memory is getting fuzzy as these are exactly the cars I was thinking of. For some reason this morning I was thinking they were still single sheathed rather than rebuilt from such. You are also correct about them going to the DT&I first as I also remember
the DT&I compass emblem showing through on the right end of each side but couldn't think how it was on the car when thinking
they were still single sheathed this morning. Does anyone have a photo of these cars as built or at least when still Santa Fe equipment? They must have been rather interesting as built also with that very heavy underframe.

Cordially, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Thank you Tim,

    My memory is getting fuzzy as these are exactly the cars I was thinking of. For some reason this morning I was thinking they were still single sheathed rather than rebuilt from such. You are also correct about them going to the DT&I first as I also remember
the DT&I compass emblem showing through on the right end of each side but couldn't think how it was on the car when thinking
they were still single sheathed this morning. Does anyone have a photo of these cars as built or at least when still Santa Fe equipment? They must have been rather interesting as built also with that very heavy underframe.

Cordially, Don Valentine
Tim O'Connor
 


I have several photos of the car that I haven't scanned. Here's a picture
I found on the internet somewhere. The car is an Fe-13 and first went to the
DT&I (lettering was visible when I took photos) and then the StJ&LC.

Tim


On 5/7/2019 7:58 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:

   Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our
little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the
heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind
because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves.
I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that
satjust east f the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early
1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?

Cordially, Don Valentine
_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Eric Lombard
 

Good Morning, Everyone...Again

Thanks to Rupert Gamlen (CB&Q X-5 class) and Jim Gates ( ATSF Fe-K class.) for noting two classes missing in the  50 ft cars Excel data table. The two are definitely in the database but somehow my query that produced the excel spreadsheet was not constructed correctly (its complicated). So, here is the last word baring further notifications form RR specific knowledgeable list members. 

The table lists 114 series and includes those built new up to 12-1929, those either new, or renumbered, or rebuilt without renumbering, or rebuilt and renumbered and in service in 1928, 

I very much appreciated the interest and comments from the members and the opportunity to polish my query skills. There are 8500 series in the box car database: those that came into existence new between 1910- 1944, or as renumbered or rebuilt from those cars up through the 1960's. Series built prior to 1910 but with steel underframes are also included and similarly cars from select railroads that appeal to me: Illinois Central and absorbed lines at the moment. The box car database is a work in progress and is now nearing 35 years of data entry. 

The dates in the format 1-18xx or 1-1900 are place holders: the year is documented but the month is pending documentation.


On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:56 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.
 
Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.
 
 
Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

   Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our
little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the
heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind
because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves.
I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that
satjust east f the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early
1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?

Cordially, Don Valentine
Jim Gates
 

I see the ATSF Fe-M class, but not the Fe-K class.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 5/6/19, Eric Lombard <elombard@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Date: Monday, May 6, 2019, 12:31 PM

Hello, again...
Curiosity led me to see what my database could produce for "50" ft cars built before the end of 1929. I searched: New-built series; Inside
length between 45-0 and 50-9; and in service 1928 or built new 1929. the data come from equipment diagrams, the ORER,
the ICC valuations, and various government, railroad, model, and historical publications. 
The resulting output, 18,841 cars in 63 Series sorted by build date is attached. The build
dates in the form 1-19xx are place holders. The year is documented but not the month. the data are reduced from the
complete data set available for each series.
There are some interesting series!
One complete with the rara avis VanDorn ends. The ascendancy of steel underframes, vertical brake wheels,steel ends
trucks  can be picked out.
Enjoy
Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the extra Rock Island data and the Excel file, Eric. These details are fascinating.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Lombard
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 9:43 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Good Morning, Everyone...

I agree with Eric: The did not acquire *any* 50 foot single-sheathed cars with a deep fishbelly side sill. There appear to be only three candidates for the mystery car:

 

Marks   Series                            Qty                Date      Builder

RIA&L    261000-261124  125         1912       WSC

CRI&P   261125-261449  325         1912       WSC

CRI&P   261450-261949  500         1913       PUL

 

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:12 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Attached it is an edit of the image concentrating on the line of cars on the right side of the original. I tweaked levels, contrast, and brightness in Photoshop. Only one Lackawanna boxcar number came out well but we can see hints of car letting on the two automobile boxcars.

I’m not certain if the fishbelly sidesill car is Illinois Central. I thought it was at first and now wonder if it is a Rock Island car. When did the R.I. reporting marks come into use? I see only two blurry initials for the reporting marks.

 

I don't have a 1929 ORER at hand but can offer data from the October 1926 ORER for the 50-foot automobile boxcar quantities of the IC, CRI&P, CB&Q, and UP.

Illinois Central listed 293 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 1.2% of the 24,229 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

CRI&P listed 1448 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 4.6% of the 31,459 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

The CB&Q listed 982 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 3.1% of the 31,612 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

Union Pacific listed 2606 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 8.8% of the 29,532 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 2:56 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Hi List Members,

 

There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.

 

Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.

 

 

Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 
Eric Hansmann
 

The photo was taken at the DL&W Jersey City facilities in 1929. The top level may be a coal unloading dock to transfer coal from rail to barge or ship.

 

I do not know the function of the second level.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Wiggs
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 2:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Can anyone identify the structure with two or maybe three levels of track loading?  I presume the top level is for trucks.

 

Davo in Orlando
Eric Lombard
 

Hello Everyone, again...

Rupert, I purposely did not include series rebuilt, or renumbered, or both. The rebuilt and renumbered series you list is indeed in the data. 
A couple of additional photos of the Pullman lot. All the RI series had auto end doors.



On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:56 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.
 
Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.
 
 
Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
Rupert Gamlen
 

Eric

You can add CB&Q class XA-10 cars to your list. 46000-46481 were rebuilt at the company’s Aurora shops in 1926 from XA-5’s numbered 45000-45499 which had originally been built in 1913 by Haskell & Barker.

The dimensions and appearance of the two classes was very similar but, judging by the pairs of door stops, I think the car in the photo is an XA-10.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Lombard
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2019 5:31 a.m.
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Hello, again...

 

Curiosity led me to see what my database could produce for "50" ft cars built before the end of 1929. I searched: New-built series; Inside length between 45-0 and 50-9; and in service 1928 or built new 1929. the data come from equipment diagrams, the ORER, the ICC valuations, and various government, railroad, model, and historical publications. 

 

The resulting output, 18,841 cars in 63 Series sorted by build date is attached. The build dates in the form 1-19xx are place holders. The year is documented but not the month. the data are reduced from the complete data set available for each series.

 

There are some interesting series! One complete with the rara avis VanDorn ends. The ascendancy of steel underframes, vertical brake wheels,steel ends trucks  can be picked out.

 

Enjoy

 
Bill Welch
 

Eric you missed this group of 100 cars, only SS 50-footers built by a southeastern RR AFAIK: http://archive.nmra.org/Photographs.aspx?c=118&i=23478&PageIndex=0&rm=165

This photo appears in the Kline/Culotta NMRA book I believe.

Bill Welch
David Wiggs
 

Can anyone identify the structure with two or maybe three levels of track loading?  I presume the top level is for trucks.
 
Davo in Orlando
Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Claus,
 
I just took a closer look.  They’re actually mules and wagon!  Great.
 
Thanks again.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 2:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
 
Hi Claus,
 
Nice pic.  Gotta love those horse and wagon shots.
 
Thanks,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 12:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
 
Hi Eric,
 
Yes, apparently the 'mystery car' is a Rock Island car. It is not IC.
 
Compare the 'mystery car' in the link below...
 
 
...with the attached example of the RI car series that seems to match. According to my Dec 1930 ORER this is series RI 261000-261949. This agrees with Eric's candidate list.
 
Thanks Eric!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Lombard
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
 
Good Morning, Everyone...
I agree with Eric: The did not acquire *any* 50 foot single-sheathed cars with a deep fishbelly side sill. There appear to be only three candidates for the mystery car:
 
Marks Series         Qty Date Builder
RIA&L 261000-261124 125 1912 WSC
CRI&P 261125-261449 325 1912 WSC
CRI&P 261450-261949 500 1913 PUL
 
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:12 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Attached it is an edit of the image concentrating on the line of cars on the right side of the original. I tweaked levels, contrast, and brightness in Photoshop. Only one Lackawanna boxcar number came out well but we can see hints of car letting on the two automobile boxcars.

I’m not certain if the fishbelly sidesill car is Illinois Central. I thought it was at first and now wonder if it is a Rock Island car. When did the R.I. reporting marks come into use? I see only two blurry initials for the reporting marks.

 

I don't have a 1929 ORER at hand but can offer data from the October 1926 ORER for the 50-foot automobile boxcar quantities of the IC, CRI&P, CB&Q, and UP.

Illinois Central listed 293 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 1.2% of the 24,229 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

CRI&P listed 1448 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 4.6% of the 31,459 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

The CB&Q listed 982 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 3.1% of the 31,612 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

Union Pacific listed 2606 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 8.8% of the 29,532 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 2:56 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Hi List Members,

 

There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.

 

Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.

 

 

Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 
Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Claus,
 
Nice pic.  Gotta love those horse and wagon shots.
 
Thanks,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 12:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
 
Hi Eric,
 
Yes, apparently the 'mystery car' is a Rock Island car. It is not IC.
 
Compare the 'mystery car' in the link below...
 
 
...with the attached example of the RI car series that seems to match. According to my Dec 1930 ORER this is series RI 261000-261949. This agrees with Eric's candidate list.
 
Thanks Eric!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Lombard
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
 
Good Morning, Everyone...
I agree with Eric: The did not acquire *any* 50 foot single-sheathed cars with a deep fishbelly side sill. There appear to be only three candidates for the mystery car:
 
Marks Series         Qty Date Builder
RIA&L 261000-261124 125 1912 WSC
CRI&P 261125-261449 325 1912 WSC
CRI&P 261450-261949 500 1913 PUL
 
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:12 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Attached it is an edit of the image concentrating on the line of cars on the right side of the original. I tweaked levels, contrast, and brightness in Photoshop. Only one Lackawanna boxcar number came out well but we can see hints of car letting on the two automobile boxcars.

I’m not certain if the fishbelly sidesill car is Illinois Central. I thought it was at first and now wonder if it is a Rock Island car. When did the R.I. reporting marks come into use? I see only two blurry initials for the reporting marks.

 

I don't have a 1929 ORER at hand but can offer data from the October 1926 ORER for the 50-foot automobile boxcar quantities of the IC, CRI&P, CB&Q, and UP.

Illinois Central listed 293 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 1.2% of the 24,229 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

CRI&P listed 1448 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 4.6% of the 31,459 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

The CB&Q listed 982 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 3.1% of the 31,612 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

Union Pacific listed 2606 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 8.8% of the 29,532 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 2:56 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Hi List Members,

 

There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.

 

Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.

 

 

Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 
Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi Garth and List Members,
 
Also note that the ONLY east-coast railroad listed was ERIE.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Friends,

This list is very interesting. Note the SP and subsidiaries are the top owners with 3,100 cars, followed by the GN with 2,550, the NP with 2,000, UP with 1,501, CMStP&P with 1,000, and even the little WP with 250. All of these western railroads were heavily involved in lumber shipments, and despite being classed as XA or XF, these cars were often used for high-grade lumber.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/6/19 1:31 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
Eric,
 
I wonder if the boxcar without the doors isn't a Rock Island car, built by Pullman in 1913 with the heavy side sill.  Like the attached photo.  The photo is too blurry to read the road name.
 
Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2019 3:25 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Indeed, that is an Illinois Central 50-foot automobile boxcar. I don’t know why it lacks doors. CB&Q is to the right and a partial UP car finishes the 50-foot cars.

The weathering variations on the cars in this image is also very interesting. 

Just a couple cars to the left of the IC boxcar is a BR&P boxcar. This, and a companion negative with another BR&P boxcar, are two of the only late 1920s images I’ve seen featuring a BR&P car. IIRC, the Van Sweringens owned the BR&P at this time. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 5, 2019, at 2:56 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.
 
Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.
 
 
Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 

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