Photos: Wabash


Allen Rueter
 

even more freight cars by
searching the Herald Review for  just Wabash
there's helium cars from 1931
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


This is a link to forty-five photos of the Wabash yards from the files of the Decatur Herald-Review:

https://herald-review.com/gallery/history/photos-wabash-yards/collection_4a3092b0-b124-5ed7-be01-e860c79d42d4.html

Mostly long shots. Some photos are dated and some show freight cars with fair detail.

-
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Allen and friends,

I saved this photo to my desktop and lightened it a bit with Photoshop to see the trucks. They are a very interesting heavy-duty Andrews type with outside hung brakes shoes. They appear to have standard journal box covers, but I would not be surprised if these hide roller bearings. Note the extremely large brake reservoir. Helium is really a heavy gas when condensed, so this car (and the successor cars we are more familiar with) had to be really beefy.

Somewhere I found plans for this car from an article in a 1940s modeling book. Sadly, I can't find same. I probably threw them away because I would never have a use for a car like this. I remember that the tanks were turned from hardwood dowels on a lathe.

The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.

My 1958 ORER does not show any USQX cars. All Department of the Army cars are listed as USAX, and I find no helium cars listed. There are lot of specialty tank cars in small lots carrying some pretty sinister-sounding chemicals like chlorine and white phosphorus. Nor are any helium cars listed for the Navy under USNX (curious, because the Navy was still flying blimps at that time). All the helium cars I could find are listed under MAHX reporting marks for the Bureau of Mines Activity, Amarillo, Texas. They list 3 cars at 182,500 cu. ft. and a 14000 capacity, which might be the former Quartermaster cars. All the rest are over 200,000 feet and have a 20000 capacity, which are probably variations on the cars with which we are familiar as once offered by AHM.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/13/19 10:22 PM, Allen Rueter via Groups.Io wrote:
even more freight cars by
searching the Herald Review for  just Wabash
there's helium cars from 1931
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


This is a link to forty-five photos of the Wabash yards from the files of the Decatur Herald-Review:

https://herald-review.com/gallery/history/photos-wabash-yards/collection_4a3092b0-b124-5ed7-be01-e860c79d42d4.html

Mostly long shots. Some photos are dated and some show freight cars with fair detail.

-
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 02:32 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.
Antiaircraft balloons for coastal defense..At the time, the nation's coast was ringed with coastal artillery batteries, all manned by the army.

Dennis Storzek


Bruce Smith
 

In 1931? Observation balloons as well ;) 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On May 14, 2019, at 7:31 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 02:32 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.
Antiaircraft balloons for coastal defense..At the time, the nation's coast was ringed with coastal artillery batteries, all manned by the army.

Dennis Storzek


Bruce Smith
 

And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR SERVICE”…  The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in part to deal with the needs of the rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On May 14, 2019, at 7:31 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 02:32 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.
Antiaircraft balloons for coastal defense..At the time, the nation's coast was ringed with coastal artillery batteries, all manned by the army.

Dennis Storzek


Bruce Smith
 

Garth,

1) These are plain bearing trucks. While there were roller bearings in 1931, they were quite rare and mostly applied to passenger cars. 
2) No helium is NOT really heavy when condensed. When looking at helium cars, their Lt Wt may exceed the nominal car weight, although not the Load Limit (the old saw about these cars being heavier empty is humorous but patently false for anyone tempted to post it…). Thus the weight was the TANKS, not what was in the tanks.
3) An outstanding history of helium cars by Jay Miller has been posted at https://sfrhms.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/helium_handout.pdf  This will help you understand how ownership and reporting marks for these cars changed over the years.

We discussed this exact photo on this list in November, 2016 ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On May 14, 2019, at 4:31 AM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Allen and friends,

I saved this photo to my desktop and lightened it a bit with Photoshop to see the trucks. They are a very interesting heavy-duty Andrews type with outside hung brakes shoes. They appear to have standard journal box covers, but I would not be surprised if these hide roller bearings. Note the extremely large brake reservoir. Helium is really a heavy gas when condensed, so this car (and the successor cars we are more familiar with) had to be really beefy.

Somewhere I found plans for this car from an article in a 1940s modeling book. Sadly, I can't find same. I probably threw them away because I would never have a use for a car like this. I remember that the tanks were turned from hardwood dowels on a lathe.

The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.

My 1958 ORER does not show any USQX cars. All Department of the Army cars are listed as USAX, and I find no helium cars listed. There are lot of specialty tank cars in small lots carrying some pretty sinister-sounding chemicals like chlorine and white phosphorus. Nor are any helium cars listed for the Navy under USNX (curious, because the Navy was still flying blimps at that time). All the helium cars I could find are listed under MAHX reporting marks for the Bureau of Mines Activity, Amarillo, Texas. They list 3 cars at 182,500 cu. ft. and a 14000 capacity, which might be the former Quartermaster cars. All the rest are over 200,000 feet and have a 20000 capacity, which are probably variations on the cars with which we are familiar as once offered by AHM.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/13/19 10:22 PM, Allen Rueter via Groups.Io wrote:
even more freight cars by
searching the Herald Review for  just Wabash
there's helium cars from 1931
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


This is a link to forty-five photos of the Wabash yards from the files of the Decatur Herald-Review:
Mostly long shots. Some photos are dated and some show freight cars with fair detail.
-
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Helium is really a heavy gas when condensed, so this car (and the successor cars we are more familiar with) had to be really beefy.

   Um, no. It's the 3000 pounds per square inch pressure (and higher) inside the tanks that makes them thick-walled and very heavy. The helium is a small part of the total weight.

My 1958 ORER does not show any USQX cars. 

    The early cars were both USQX and USNX (Navy) but later were all USNX until 1955, when the Bureau of Mines took them over and applied MHAX marks (the name Mines Helium Activity is the reason for the initials). I wrote about some of the technical background in describing modeling of a later car. You can find the first post of a three-post series at the following link, if you're interested:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Jim Gates
 

The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 5/14/19, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 7:43 AM

And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR
SERVICE”…  The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in
part to deal with the needs of the rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.

Regards
Bruce


Ray Breyer
 

>>The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.
>>Jim Gates

Definitely not true.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Bruce Smith
 

Technically correct, but they did have at least one semi-rigid airship and many blimps.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL





From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gates via Groups.Io <jim.gates@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 10:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
 
The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/14/19, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
 To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
 Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 7:43 AM
 
 And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR
 SERVICE”…  The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in
 part to deal with the needs of the  rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.
 
 Regards
 Bruce




Tim O'Connor
 


proving again that once a bureaucracy gets hold of a project it's hard to pry away from them again

On 5/14/2019 11:16 PM, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io wrote:
>>The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.
>>Jim Gates

Definitely not true.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


 

They had plenty of barrage balloons though.

Thanks!
Brian Ehni
(Sent from my iPhone)

On May 14, 2019, at 10:13 PM, Jim Gates via Groups.Io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:

The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/14/19, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 7:43 AM

And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR
SERVICE”… The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in
part to deal with the needs of the rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.

Regards
Bruce



 

The key word is dirigible, as opposed to blimp. The Hindenburg was a dirigible (as were the US Navy Akron, Macon, and Shenandoah.)

Blimps have no internal framework. Nor do barrage balloons. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On May 14, 2019, at 10:16 PM, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

>>The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.
>>Jim Gates

Definitely not true.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Bruce Smith
 

As usual, we digress, but dirigible means airship, NOT necessarily a rigid airship... 


“Airship” and “dirigible” are synonyms; a dirigible is any lighter-than-air craft that is powered and steerable, as opposed to free floating like a balloon."


Thus my original posting was actually correct 😉


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL





From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 11:27 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
 
The key word is dirigible, as opposed to blimp. The Hindenburg was a dirigible (as were the US Navy Akron, Macon, and Shenandoah.)

Blimps have no internal framework. Nor do barrage balloons. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On May 14, 2019, at 10:16 PM, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

>>The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.
>>Jim Gates

Definitely not true.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Jack Mullen
 

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 08:48 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
a dirigible is any lighter-than-air craft that is powered and steerable
Bruce, thanks for pointing that out and perhaps steering this discussion back on course. 

Barrage balloons used hydrogen as the lifting gas. The two Army helium cars would have served the Army's rather small blimp program, which was discontinued in the late '30s. The larger pool of Navy cars was initially needed to supply the huge rigid airships in the '20s and early '30s, and then expanded with the rapid growth of the blimp fleet in WW2.

I'd love to have a helium car model, but there's no reason I can find for one to be on the C&NW in northern Illinois. Guess I'll stick with pickle cars for oddballs. 

Jack Mullen


jerryglow2
 

I did artwork for an O-scale importer for those 3 tube cars years ago. I wonder if he ever produced them.

Jerry Glow


Steve SANDIFER
 

The only 3 tube models I have seen are the laughable Lionel ones. They even had an unloader - like the log dumping unloader.


On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 5:40 PM, jerryglow2
<jerryglow@...> wrote:
I did artwork for an O-scale importer for those 3 tube cars years ago. I wonder if he ever produced them.

Jerry Glow


Brad Andonian
 

Jerry
Yoder has not made the models

Brad Andonian 




On Saturday, May 18, 2019, 5:40 PM, jerryglow2 <jerryglow@...> wrote:

I did artwork for an O-scale importer for those 3 tube cars years ago. I wonder if he ever produced them.

Jerry Glow