Off topic question


Clark Propst
 

Sorry to ask about something past the target date of this group, but know Lloyd Keyser is a member and he might be able to answer my question off line?
The attached car was built in the 40s and re-worked at some point. Lloyd has a similar car in the CNW color book, 37000 series. I remember these cars at work, a friend wants to model one, but we don't know what the ends or roof are nor the width of the door.

Sorry and thanks,
CW Propst
 


Bill Welch
 

Date from the Home page: https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main

Bill Welch


Todd Sullivan
 

Clark,

I'm going to offer my suspicions based on the photo you provided.  If you count the 'bumps' that show on the ends, there are 10 on the lower panel and 8 on the upper panel, which suggests that the end was a 4-5 dreadnaught end.  The roof looks like it has no raised panels and the 'ribs' look like raised carlines (I hope I got the terminology right), which appears to be similar to Yarmouth's Murphy Flat Panel Roof, Part 4238R.

Todd Sullivan. 


Jack Mullen
 

Todd, I count 9 bumps in each half, plus an extra wrinkle at the bottom where the end sheet meets the sill.  That wound be a 5/5 Dreadnaught, with 5 major ribs and 4 darts between, in each half. Compare to the 4/5 end on the car to the right, which would show 7 bumps in the upper panel.

Clark, C&NW got a few small lots of 50'6, 10'5" IH boxcars with single 6' doors around 1940. Most of my stuff is still boxed up, so please forgive the fuzziness of working from memory. IIRC, the first lot had 4/5 square corner Dreadnaught ends, Viking roofs, and straight side sills, with a rather small reinforcement near the center. (The car to the right just might be one of these - note the wide flat space at the top of the end which is characteristic of a 4/5 end on a car thats more than 10' IH).

Later cars were similar but with 5/5 ends. I think that's the basis of the car we see here, which was modified with a 9' (I think) door and deeper and longer sill reinforcement. So I'd go with 5/5 Dreadnaught and Viking. You could check an ORER to verify the door opening, but it looks to me like the proportion of the door extension is consistent with 9'.

By the way, the photo is a bit too fuzzy to read the small lettering, but I think the yellow panel left of the door reads WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO AGENT CNWRY MASON CITY IA. Cement would be consistent with the rather extreme weathering.

Jack Mullen

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Clark Propst
 

Thanks for the great information guys! These cars were in bagged cement service mostly between the plant in Mason City and satellite facilities, mainly in the Burnsville - Twin Cities. 
A very interesting project for sure. One time I've always wondered about is why a 50' car with only a 6' door?
CW Propst


O Fenton Wells
 

Clark call me crazy but the 50 ft car looks like it has a home made 8 ft. door, standard 6' door plus 2 ft section welded on to it.  Of course the C&NW would have lost contest points for not putting the proper 8 ft door on the car....I'm certain.  SR did this with some 50 DD cars to get 15 ft openings and I think D&RGW modified some doors as well.  Wasn't pretty but it worked and the cars were at the ends of their lives so don't want to invest heavily in remodels.
Fenton

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 10:06 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
Thanks for the great information guys! These cars were in bagged cement service mostly between the plant in Mason City and satellite facilities, mainly in the Burnsville - Twin Cities. 
A very interesting project for sure. One time I've always wondered about is why a 50' car with only a 6' door?
CW Propst



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Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 07:06 AM, Clark Propst wrote:
One time I've always wondered about is why a 50' car with only a 6' door?
CW Propst
I don't know for sure, but I would imagine merchandise. It seems around 1940 there were a whole bunch of roads ordering 50 ton 50 foot cars with 6' doors, in my neck of the woods C&NW, MILW, and Soo Line all had small groups that were not repeated. They would be ideal for LCL service, and could easily be converted to express boxes should the need arise. The coming of WWII seemed to change whatever the thinking was, and the orders were not repeated after the war. The Soo also rebuilt their cars with eight foot doors; the door opening was only expanded to the right, IIRC, leaving the new doors slightly off center.

Dennis Storzek


Tom Madden
 

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 08:18 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Clark call me crazy but the 50 ft car looks like it has a home made 8 ft. door, standard 6' door plus 2 ft section welded on to it. 
Yes. The upper door hangers are only on the 6' door but the lower guides are spaced for the 8' mash-up door. And look at the length of the door tracks.

Tom Madden
 


Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 07:06 AM, Clark Propst wrote:
One time I've always wondered about is why a 50' car with only a 6' door?
Because C&NW figured that anything that could be loaded thru a 6' door into a 40' car would fit thru the same size door in a 50' car. That's a smart*** way of saying that door size is driven by  nature of the freight, and how it's loaded.

These cars were intended for merchandise, not lumber, machinery, autos or other large stuff. The 50' length provided more volume for relatively low-density package freight. In 1940, manually loading using hand trucks would be the norm. So a six foot door would suffice. A larger door opening would impose some additional structural cost. 
Post-WW2, palletization and forklifts changed the rules of the game, hence later cars had bigger doors,  and these ones got the homebrew door mod.

Jack Mullen


Tim O'Connor
 


Clark, the roof appears to me to be a VIKING roof.

The CNW purchased 50 foot single door (6 foot) box cars with 5/5 ends and they
also rebuilt and lengthened 40 foot single door cars with 4/5 ends (in the 17000's)
but I can't tell from your photo what type of ends are on the car.

Tim O'Connor



On 5/18/2019 1:58 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
Sorry to ask about something past the target date of this group, but know Lloyd Keyser is a member and he might be able to answer my question off line?
The attached car was built in the 40s and re-worked at some point. Lloyd has a similar car in the CNW color book, 37000 series. I remember these cars at work, a friend wants to model one, but we don't know what the ends or roof are nor the width of the door.

Sorry and thanks,
CW Propst
 

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Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts