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Rapido USRA 40-ton Boxcar

spsalso
 

Mike,

Thanks for this info.  Fun reading, for certain kinds of people.


Ed

Edward Sutorik
Schleigh Mike
 

In the note below, Don Valentine seems to invite finer detail on the demise of B&M USRA DS boxcars in the late 1940s.  Having reviewed archival material at Lowell, Mass., one can get a closer look.  The following numbers come from log books with handwritten entries documenting disposition (and new adds) to the Boston & Maine's rolling stock assets (no locos). For each month listed, the numbers given are the reduction reported for the 70000-70499 series, the USRA cars.  In most cases the cars are being scrapped, sometimes off-road, often at Billerica, but many, along the way, being converted to 'service' purposes, sometimes remaining on their trucks and sometimes becoming the definitive "unretired" boxcar sitting on blocks.  In any case, the car ceased to be an interchanging, revenue earning freight car that month.

B&M USRA Boxcar Removals to Their End  1945-1955
Jan.Feb.Mar.Apr.MayJun.Jul.Aug.Sep.Oct.Nov.Dec.
1945010000001100
1946000101000100
1947001100001000
19480011222341721023734
1949531617213426134152124
19502510417699351
1951001000000002
1952000000000046
1953000001000100
1954000000000010
195500000111Nomore cars

Now some points for clarity.  500 'replacement' PS-1 cars arrived totally in September and October of 1947 yet serious fallout of the USRA cars did not begin for another six months but then, fallout did seriously happen.  Back-summing from 1955 only 19 cars remained after the end of 1950.  Also, I would caution that there could be disagreement with the numbers reported in the ORER simply because the above numbers reflect near 'real time' in the accounting process and the ORER numbers probably are at least out of phase with the above.  Over a couple of months they should work out.

Also, the monthly records are only as good as the information the particular office (perhaps one employee?) received, so, precise accounting to the last car probably should not be expected.  Illustrating this is the car (BM 70423) that fell out in June of 1955.  This happened when it was noticed that "Boxcar unable to locate and no record of movement for five years.  Evidently destroyed and no report rendered."  No doubt this was discovered because starting in June of 1955 the Boston & Maine began a renumbering program that continued over the next 18 months affecting 1300 of the 71000-72999 notable XM-1 SS boxcars of 1929-1930.  The first block of 500 numbers to be issued?  The very same 70000-70499 used for the nearly gone (but barely gasping) USRA cars.

I hope this helps the interested understand the final days of Boston & Maine's USRA DS boxcars.  Given the timing of the arrival of the B&M Minute Man herald and the rapid demise of their USRA cars, it does seem that the Rapido B&M cars have limited applicability to those faithful to modeling TIME as well as DETAILS.  Perhaps Rapido will do future runs that predate the herald change.

Mike Schleigh in steamy wet Grove City, Penna. 


On Wednesday, June 5, 2019, 9:01:47 PM EDT, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


     Well Dave, let's look at the bigger picture. The B&M may have had only 25 USRA double sheathed cars by
1950 but that is because the numbers came down rapidly shortly before that. In July 1946, for example, they
still had 476 of them out of the 500 total. Unfortunately you have not given us the month in 1950 that you refer
to that might also tell us something more. But by April 1947 the number had dropped to 447 indicating the loss
of 29 cars in just nine months.

     An even more important point is the Ertl car. Why set it aside??? As has already been noted, it comes with
an AB brake system and also has a roof that is easily removable as well as individually applied grab irons. This
is more than an Accurail car provides (sorry Dennis) and doe not require the assembly time of a Westerfield car,
two of which I have assembled that don't impress be too much (sorry Andrew as well). The other thing the Ertl
USRA boxcar offers that is too often overlooked is a WORKING DOOR!  No, I'm not suggesting at all that we
return to the day of the clunky Athearn cars with the "claws" at the bottom of their doors but to me an HO scale
boxcar that does not have doors that open is hardly worthy of purchasing. And the Ertl car easily has the most
prototypically thin scale door yet seen on an HO boxcar with the possible exception of Tichy cars. If those
manufacturering such models can't get their act together and give us operating boxcar doors they can at least
mold the damn things separately so they can be attached in an open position or even changed for a different
style. To me a door that is molded onto a boxcar is as big a pain in the ads as one with "claws". There is no
need of what we are being offered being without working doors in this day and age. The Ertl car is easily the
best HO Scale double sheathed car we have ever been offered. It is a shame that it is no longer being offered
but one can pick up all they want on eBay and elsewhere without paying more than $20 each and often lower.
While I have known and appreciated Bill Schneider's efforts very much over the years the lack of operating, or
separate, doors on the Rapido Northern Pacific boxcar left me cold on an otherwise really nice model and it
appears the Rapido USRA car will follow suit.  But with a few over thirty of the Ertl cars I'm not going to shed
tear over it knowing that I can have a better model with a little effort put into the Ertl cars. If Rapido decides to
offer separate underframes that have better detailing and a choice of K or AB brake styles those I might be
interested in but count me out for the cars themselves as I have already told Bill.

Just my two bits worth, Don Valentine
Todd Sullivan
 

Thank you, Bill, for straightening out the record. 

Todd Sullivan
(now in Richardson, TX)
Bill Schneider
 

Absolutely true in the GN cars Garth. We’re doing one version in this run, others in later runs. Lots of fodder there!

 

Bill Schneider

Rapido Trains

 

 
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill,

Many GN cars also received AB brakes as well, and operated up into the 1960s. In fact these were the last surviving large block of USRA boxcars in near-original condition.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/7/19 2:04 PM, Bill Schneider wrote:

Now that I’m back from a few days off, let me clarify a couple of things on the USRA boxcar project that have been discussed here                   …

 

1 – The cars are being sold TO DISTRIBUTORS as a four-pack, but they are four induvial that can be offered for sale by the stores individually.

 

2 – The majority of the cars will come with KC brakes installed. Only a few will have AB (primarily TH&B and SP&S). This information will be on the web site shortly. However, realizing that brake changeover dates (if any) varied, I’ve asked the factory to include the other set of brake parts in the box so that they can be swapped out if desired.

 

3 – Most of the lettering styles (in this run) are from the 1930-50s era as that is our most popular (sorry Eric….). If we get enough requests we will certainly look at adding earlier schemes into the next run.

 

4 – Prices are in US dollars.

 

Bill

 

Bill Schneider

Rapido Trains

 
Bill Schneider
 

Now that I’m back from a few days off, let me clarify a couple of things on the USRA boxcar project that have been discussed here                   …

 

1 – The cars are being sold TO DISTRIBUTORS as a four-pack, but they are four induvial that can be offered for sale by the stores individually.

 

2 – The majority of the cars will come with KC brakes installed. Only a few will have AB (primarily TH&B and SP&S). This information will be on the web site shortly. However, realizing that brake changeover dates (if any) varied, I’ve asked the factory to include the other set of brake parts in the box so that they can be swapped out if desired.

 

3 – Most of the lettering styles (in this run) are from the 1930-50s era as that is our most popular (sorry Eric….). If we get enough requests we will certainly look at adding earlier schemes into the next run.

 

4 – Prices are in US dollars.

 

Bill

 

Bill Schneider

Rapido Trains

 
np328
 

         Among the numerous drawings I supplied to get the car green lighted by Rapido before they ever approached our NP modeling committee, I had searched at the MNHS for a matter of months every Tuesday evenings and Saturday days, in addition to other times as my job and the MNHS library hours would allow, in order to find the drawing of the underframe. 
         In the evolution of getting things rolling, there was a question if - whomever did the original modeled car - had indeed done the underframe correctly. No name because I still respect all they did to move this hobby forward. It, the drawing of the underframe, had been somehow misfiled at the MNHS and I began to wonder if the drawing even existed. 

     I just looked at the scan I did of the drawing and found on the bottom left corner.  It has P.S.C. Co Dwg 52240-E  lettered in. The number it was filed under by the NP Mechanical Dept. on the lower right is quite different. Now some of the other drawings I found, like the Ideal Safety Hand brake, have notations on the drawing that they are covered by applicable patents of the W H Miner brake Co. The underframe drawing does not. 

      I cannot say then if the underframe on the NP car is or is not unique to the NP.  If you have further information on the underframes origin, I would be happy to hear of it. 

   If it turns out there is some commonality to the underframe, or this was an "off the shelf" design, well I am happy Rapido noted this. The original rendition on the Rapido NP models I have are lovingly reproduced when compared to the original blueprints.                                                   Jim Dick - Roseville, MN 
Dennis Storzek
 

No Charlie, not done at the museums. Three of the four trucks (the fourth is AAR cast sideframes) on the two cars at IRM are so marked and I've been a member as long as the cars have been there... the same trucks and markings on the car at the Colfax Railway Museum in Wisconsin and one other car, the location of which escapes me at the moment.

Dennis Storzek
Charlie Vlk
 

Some may have gotten the impression from this discussion that the USRA DS box cars were the primary origin of Andrews trucks on the CB&Q.

This is not correct.   Here are the classes that had some if not all of the cars with Andrews trucks per a 1930 CB&Q Truck Diagram Book:

Truck No. 39       100M Car Cast Steel Freight Truck    GA-7   GA-9   TM-4   GA-8   GA-9   GA-11   GE-2

Truck No. 46       100M Car Cast Steel Freight Truck    GA-15

Truck No. 47       100M Car Cast Steel Freight Truck    XM-24

Truck No. 48       100M Car Cast Steel Freight Truck    GS-2   HT-2   HT-3   HT-4

Truck No. 48A     100M Car Cast Steel Freight Truck    GS-6   GS-7   FM-11A   

 (replacement for Truck No. 31 using parts except sideframes and new bolsters only on FM-11 A)         

 Truck No. 113     140M USRA Tender Truck   F-1   G-5   M-3   O-4

My library is currently inaccessible as I am finishing new bookcases so I cannot extract more modern information on truck usage.   I do know, however, that the SM-16 and other classes of Stock Cars did receive Andrews trucks.   Except for the tender trucks that came with the USRA steam locomotives it is probable that most if not all Andrews trucks were sideframe replacements for various archbar trucks although in the 1930 CB&Q Truck Diagram Book only the 48A is specifically called out as such.

It would be interesting to learn if the Soo Line actually had purchased the trucks from the CB&Q or if they were simply railroad museum retrofits.

Charlie Vlk

 
Tim O'Connor
 


I think the USRA car shares its underframe with the NP box car. This may have had something
to do with Rapido's decision - a small investment with a rapid payback.

Tim O'


On 6/5/2019 9:01 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
     Well Dave, let's look at the bigger picture. The B&M may have had only 25 USRA double sheathed cars by
1950 but that is because the numbers came down rapidly shortly before that. In July 1946, for example, they
still had 476 of them out of the 500 total. Unfortunately you have not given us the month in 1950 that you refer
to that might also tell us something more. But by April 1947 the number had dropped to 447 indicating the loss
of 29 cars in just nine months.

     An even more important point is the Ertl car. Why set it aside??? As has already been noted, it comes with
an AB brake system and also has a roof that is easily removable as well as individually applied grab irons. This
is more than an Accurail car provides (sorry Dennis) and doe not require the assembly time of a Westerfield car,
two of which I have assembled that don't impress be too much (sorry Andrew as well). The other thing the Ertl
USRA boxcar offers that is too often overlooked is a WORKING DOOR!  No, I'm not suggesting at all that we
return to the day of the clunky Athearn cars with the "claws" at the bottom of their doors but to me an HO scale
boxcar that does not have doors that open is hardly worthy of purchasing. And the Ertl car easily has the most
prototypically thin scale door yet seen on an HO boxcar with the possible exception of Tichy cars. If those
manufacturering such models can't get their act together and give us operating boxcar doors they can at least
mold the damn things separately so they can be attached in an open position or even changed for a different
style. To me a door that is molded onto a boxcar is as big a pain in the ads as one with "claws". There is no
need of what we are being offered being without working doors in this day and age. The Ertl car is easily the
best HO Scale double sheathed car we have ever been offered. It is a shame that it is no longer being offered
but one can pick up all they want on eBay and elsewhere without paying more than $20 each and often lower.
While I have known and appreciated Bill Schneider's efforts very much over the years the lack of operating, or
separate, doors on the Rapido Northern Pacific boxcar left me cold on an otherwise really nice model and it
appears the Rapido USRA car will follow suit.  But with a few over thirty of the Ertl cars I'm not going to shed
tear over it knowing that I can have a better model with a little effort put into the Ertl cars. If Rapido decides to
offer separate underframes that have better detailing and a choice of K or AB brake styles those I might be
interested in but count me out for the cars themselves as I have already told Bill.

Just my two bits worth, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 06:35 PM, William Hirt wrote:
These were the only CB&Q boxcars with Andrews trucks when purchased new. They did buy Andrews trucks new for their composite gondolas and used them to replace trucks on other equipment as necessary. One prominent example was the USRA style gondolas which the Q did like and built a lot of them in their own shops (over 6,000) for especially coal service.

Thanks. David Thompson's comment that the trucks on the USRA cars would not be marked CB&Q is a point well taken, so the second hand side frames must have come from one of these groups of gons. There is a picture with a legible weight date from the mid thirties of one of the Soo Line boxcars still with its original Bettendorf trucks, and interestingly, one truck has has a forged repair strap applied, which shows that reports that these side frames were prone to crack are true. The rest of the photos I've found are either builders photos or were taken post war, and by then they had Andrews trucks. I was hoping for an easy way to determine when the trucks were changed. There were still over 1500 of these cars listed in the January 1953 ORER, a number that drops to 109 by October of 1954. The later groups of "sawtooth cars" soldiered on for another ten years.

I believe the Soo society now has the freightcar card file in their archives; maybe after I retire I'll spend some time going through it one card at a time and find the real answer.

Dennis Storzek
William Hirt
 

Dennis,

These were the only CB&Q boxcars with Andrews trucks when purchased new. They did buy Andrews trucks new for their composite gondolas and used them to replace trucks on other equipment as necessary. One prominent example was the USRA style gondolas which the Q did like and built a lot of them in their own shops (over 6,000) for especially coal service. 2400 Class GS-5 cars were built in 1925 by CB&Q Galesburg shops. 400 would equipped with Archbar trucks and the remaining 2000 with Andrews trucks. They continued building similar cars at Galesburg in 1929-30 (750 cars - Class GS-7 - an improved Andrews plank truck), and from 1935-1938 with additional 2800 Class GS-8 cars built (mainly with Barber double truss plank trucks, but they did have 50 equipped with National Type B trucks, and 50 with Barber stabilized plank trucks built in 1935).

The gondolas were resheathed a number of times and then rebuilt. As January 1960, there were still almost 2700 of the GS-7 and GS-8 cars still in revenue service.

The Q did not buy any two bay steel hoppers until a 500 car buy from AC&F in 1926 that had Dalman trucks (Class HT-1). Then they started buying steel two bay steel hoppers regularly for the next 20 years or so. The biggest being the HT-5 class which had 3200 cars.

Here is a photo of one the gondolas with the Andrews trucks in 1948 in a work train at Louisiana MO:

<http://transport.castlegraphics.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=-96&pid=4049#top_display_media>

Bill Hirt

On 6/5/2019 1:17 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 06:44 AM, William Hirt wrote:
According the Burlington Route Historical Society Freight Car Data Sheet on USRA Double Sheathed Boxcars, the USRA Double Sheathed Boxcars (series 120500-120999) built in December 1918 by AC&F were the last double sheathed boxcars the CB&Q purchased (Class XM-24). They were the only CB&Q boxcars built new with Andrews cast steel trucks. Other than resheathing in the 1930s and having a grab added to the left hand side of the car, not much in the way of visible changes were made to these cars (unlike other Q double sheathed boxcars). They kept their KC brakes until retired. They were all gone by the early 1950s.
That's interesting. The Soo Line "sawtooth" boxcars built in 1913,14, and 15 were all built with Bettendorf T section trucks, but the five or six cars that remain in preservation all ride on Andrews trucks with CB&Q cast in the side frames. Obviously a bulk purchase of used trucks to replace the troublesome T section trucks, but I always wondered when it was done. A search of the preserved Soo AFE files failed to reveal any large purchases of used trucks, but it may have just been described with the generic term as car material or some such. If these were the only CB&Q cars equipped with Andrews trucks, then any large reduction in their numbers would be a good indication as to when the trucks would have been available. Anyone have a retirement timeline for the Q USRA cars?

Dennis Storzek

David
 

Andrews trucks with CB&Q cast in the side frames
I would think these cannot be trucks from USRA cars, as the builders wouldn't have gone to the trouble of figuring out who was getting which groups of cars, then ordering sideframes with the proper initials on them. The AC&F photo of a USRA ds truck casting shows several numbers and a date, but no railroad initials.

David Thompson
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

     Well Dave, let's look at the bigger picture. The B&M may have had only 25 USRA double sheathed cars by
1950 but that is because the numbers came down rapidly shortly before that. In July 1946, for example, they
still had 476 of them out of the 500 total. Unfortunately you have not given us the month in 1950 that you refer
to that might also tell us something more. But by April 1947 the number had dropped to 447 indicating the loss
of 29 cars in just nine months.

     An even more important point is the Ertl car. Why set it aside??? As has already been noted, it comes with
an AB brake system and also has a roof that is easily removable as well as individually applied grab irons. This
is more than an Accurail car provides (sorry Dennis) and doe not require the assembly time of a Westerfield car,
two of which I have assembled that don't impress be too much (sorry Andrew as well). The other thing the Ertl
USRA boxcar offers that is too often overlooked is a WORKING DOOR!  No, I'm not suggesting at all that we
return to the day of the clunky Athearn cars with the "claws" at the bottom of their doors but to me an HO scale
boxcar that does not have doors that open is hardly worthy of purchasing. And the Ertl car easily has the most
prototypically thin scale door yet seen on an HO boxcar with the possible exception of Tichy cars. If those
manufacturering such models can't get their act together and give us operating boxcar doors they can at least
mold the damn things separately so they can be attached in an open position or even changed for a different
style. To me a door that is molded onto a boxcar is as big a pain in the ads as one with "claws". There is no
need of what we are being offered being without working doors in this day and age. The Ertl car is easily the
best HO Scale double sheathed car we have ever been offered. It is a shame that it is no longer being offered
but one can pick up all they want on eBay and elsewhere without paying more than $20 each and often lower.
While I have known and appreciated Bill Schneider's efforts very much over the years the lack of operating, or
separate, doors on the Rapido Northern Pacific boxcar left me cold on an otherwise really nice model and it
appears the Rapido USRA car will follow suit.  But with a few over thirty of the Ertl cars I'm not going to shed
tear over it knowing that I can have a better model with a little effort put into the Ertl cars. If Rapido decides to
offer separate underframes that have better detailing and a choice of K or AB brake styles those I might be
interested in but count me out for the cars themselves as I have already told Bill.

Just my two bits worth, Don Valentine
Steve SANDIFER
 

According to the Santa Fe Live list, they had 2687 of these in 1922. In 1938 they still had 2442 but in 1942 only had 253. None were listed in 1945. This information varies from information in the Boxcar book.

 

The Boxcar book says the Santa Fe had 2700, numbered 37001-39700, class BX-2. K brakes, vertical staff hand brake, Andrews trucks. Until 1932, the car numbers carried a C. T. suffix, a Columbia Trust designation. Virtually all (2635 of 2700) were rebuilt into steel sheathed cars with new steel sides and roof, retaining the underframe and original ends. The rebuilding began in 1937 and was completed in 1942, encompassing the BX-28, 31, 32, 33, and 36 class.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2019 8:44 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA 40-ton Boxcar

 

According the Burlington Route Historical Society Freight Car Data Sheet on USRA Double Sheathed Boxcars, the USRA Double Sheathed Boxcars (series 120500-120999) built in December 1918 by AC&F were the last double sheathed boxcars the CB&Q purchased (Class XM-24). They were the only CB&Q boxcars built new with Andrews cast steel trucks. Other than resheathing in the 1930s and having a grab added to the left hand side of the car, not much in the way of visible changes were made to these cars (unlike other Q double sheathed boxcars). They kept their KC brakes until retired. They were all gone by the early 1950s.

Bill Hirt

On 6/4/2019 7:56 AM, Jon Miller wrote:

On 6/3/2019 3:23 PM, dalemuir2@... wrote:

Scroll down to single cars, $50 each and you have to reserve at least two.

    Almost all shops and mail order folks will split up the 4 packs.  Only thing now is I need to know what ones for my era, I know the Santa Fe didn't have any left by '41.  Got lots of time  they probably won't ship for a couple of years!:-D

-- 
_,_
Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 06:44 AM, William Hirt wrote:
According the Burlington Route Historical Society Freight Car Data Sheet on USRA Double Sheathed Boxcars, the USRA Double Sheathed Boxcars (series 120500-120999) built in December 1918 by AC&F were the last double sheathed boxcars the CB&Q purchased (Class XM-24). They were the only CB&Q boxcars built new with Andrews cast steel trucks. Other than resheathing in the 1930s and having a grab added to the left hand side of the car, not much in the way of visible changes were made to these cars (unlike other Q double sheathed boxcars). They kept their KC brakes until retired. They were all gone by the early 1950s.
That's interesting. The Soo Line "sawtooth" boxcars built in 1913,14, and 15 were all built with Bettendorf T section trucks, but the five or six cars that remain in preservation all ride on Andrews trucks with CB&Q cast in the side frames. Obviously a bulk purchase of used trucks to replace the troublesome T section trucks, but I always wondered when it was done. A search of the preserved Soo AFE files failed to reveal any large purchases of used trucks, but it may have just been described with the generic term as car material or some such. If these were the only CB&Q cars equipped with Andrews trucks, then any large reduction in their numbers would be a good indication as to when the trucks would have been available. Anyone have a retirement timeline for the Q USRA cars?

Dennis Storzek
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Dave,

Good call on "overpopulating" our roads with too many relatively rare cars. For 1958, AFAIK only three roads still had the more-or-less original USRA DD boxcars in revenue service: GN was the largest use (372), and clones as well, SP&S had a small fleet (42), and TH&B also had a few (45). In my collection I have one GN, one SP&S, and a salvaged F&C resin car lettered for my fictional Sacramento Belt Line (itself more or less defunct now in favor of "y'all" railroads). Only the GN fleet was numerous enough for it to be justified on my layout--occasionally.

I feel the same way about PFE/WP refrigerators. One is enough for any layout, even the WP or SN. I have one, plus an ice service car, left over from the days when I modeled the SN.

I'm not rushing out to buy a WAG gondola either.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/5/19 9:34 AM, Dave Parker via Groups.Io wrote:
I'm sure there is a slightly different story for each road, but the "window of utility" for the B&M car is rather narrow.  The paint scheme is 1946+, but the B&M's 500 cars were down to 24 by 1950, and just 3 by 1955. The other choices would have been the 1927+ scheme with the rectangular herald, or the as-built scheme.  Each of these would have persisted for about a decade,  but at least the full complement of 500 cars was in interchange.

The USRA cars were never more than ca. 15% of the B&M's box-car fleet, and were  likely even less  significant on many of the other roads. This release continues the tradition of making it all  too easy for modelers to over-represent the USRA cars generally.  Setting aside the Ertl option,  the USRA DS cars are already available from Accurail, Westerfield, and F&C.  Not exactly a gaping hole in HO scale.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 6/5/2019 9:26 AM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:
Rapido RTR USRA DS boxcar = $49.00 (Canadian dollars?  If so, that’s US$36 - $37).

    Nope, someplace they make  a comment that infers it's US$.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Aley, Jeff A
 

Speaking of price, I observe the following:

 

Rapido RTR USRA DS boxcar = $49.00 (Canadian dollars?  If so, that’s US$36 - $37).

Westerfield kit (one piece body) USRA DS boxcar = $41.00.

Accurail kit USRA DS boxcar = $18.98.

 

Obviously, one must make judgements about prototype fidelity, desire to build a kit, etc.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2019 6:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA 40-ton Boxcar

 

As I am sure a few others did, I submitted MSTL prototype information to Bill Schneider about these cars. I provided what I had, photos, dates of acquisition, disposition, and lettering schemes. The MSTL “purchased” new in 1919, 300 USRA DS boxcars, built by Lenoir Car Works, last one gone in 1950. The MSTL also purchased some used USRA DS boxcars in 1940, 284 cars, 25300-25898, last one survived till 1953. Based upon a photo of one from this series, these used cars were built in 1920, so may have been clones. And finally the MSTL purchased 200 used USRA DS, 51000-51398, which were ex CMO 36000 series cars. Again the last one was gone in 1953.

 

As the last of these cars were gone by 1953, it is very possible there were never converted to AB brakes.

 

As for the price, just a month ago we discussed Walther’s offering of a USRA type boxcar, which they plan to sell for $27.98. If the Walthers offering is not acceptable, as many clearly said, then an extra $20 should be OK for a model that is correct.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of np328
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2019 5:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA 40-ton Boxcar

 

     First of all: Thank you to all of you who supplied additional data as to years most likely that these cars were retired.  
This continues to underscore one of the greatest strengths of this list. People who complete and compile research based on factual hard copy based data.  

   Concerns: Bullet point three on the Rapido flyer -  KC or AB brakes as appropriate.
As an former beloved Pastor of mine used to say, Now there is a statement a mile wide and a quarter inch deep.
I do appreciate what Rapido does as a mfgr for us and do not mean that as a dig. I would hope that Rapido could supply more data as this run takes a more solid shape. 

       Found on this list in the message posts here when searching with: "K brake ban",... 65 posts of varying degree.   An observation by Mike that, "We have discussed this almost as often as color."   Most pertinent finds by my interest, posts 110445, 110457, and 36836.    Also searching directly in the files folder by K brake ban again, an AAR date file compiled and uploaded by Jeff English. 

 See msg post 11045 if you model prior to August 1953. 

  Of research that I can offer:    
    I model Sept. 1953, and have found for the Northern Pacific Rwy, a few AFE's for 1953 that reference brake conversion for a good number of home road cars to AB brakes. I think was a final clean up effort to push stragglers over the deadline for the 1953 AAR Interchange dates. So the NP certainly had a number cars in the first half of 1953 still with K brakes. Perhaps the Korean war had some effect on the changeover. I have found in prior research on railroad interlocking, [any pull wire control at interlockings out, steel pipe replacement in] affected changes mandated by rulings in 1941-1944 due to steel shortages.   

     Based on all of the above, I will model a few very few older XMs with K brakes, home road all, and perhaps a few tank cars with K brakes.  I am not trying to justify these with a "there is a prototype for everything" type of thing. I used to belong to a rr club where the toy trainers would use that response endlessly and took joy from the rest of us.   

    The price seems fair if the end models are of the same quality the pre-production model shows. I realize not all will agree with that sentiment however the model shown, seems to be another step upward in quality.                                                                                                                                                 Jim Dick - Roseville, MN 
Dave Parker
 

I'm sure there is a slightly different story for each road, but the "window of utility" for the B&M car is rather narrow.  The paint scheme is 1946+, but the B&M's 500 cars were down to 24 by 1950, and just 3 by 1955. The other choices would have been the 1927+ scheme with the rectangular herald, or the as-built scheme.  Each of these would have persisted for about a decade,  but at least the full complement of 500 cars was in interchange.

The USRA cars were never more than ca. 15% of the B&M's box-car fleet, and were  likely even less  significant on many of the other roads. This release continues the tradition of making it all  too easy for modelers to over-represent the USRA cars generally.  Setting aside the Ertl option,  the USRA DS cars are already available from Accurail, Westerfield, and F&C.  Not exactly a gaping hole in HO scale.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA
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