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"Machinist Tools For Modeling, Part 1 - Hand Tools" Clinic ar rent NERPM

Bill Welch
 

Among the clinics I attended at the recent the NERPM, the most expensive was the one presented by Ryan Mendell, "Machinist Tools For Modellng, Part 1 - Hand Tools." In just two days I have spent about $200 for five new tools and I have not purchased a Digital Caliper yet. Ryan runs the Machine Shops at the University of Toronto and is a Mechanical Engineer who started hanging around a machine shop at age 14. He also was selling a neat little Finger Sander he calls the "tight Spot Sander." Here is a link to the Demo video: https://nationalscalecar.com/product/tight-spot-sanders/

Regarding his presentation, it can be found here, but be careful with your credit card or PayPal account: http://grandtrunkrailway.blogspot.com/

Bill Welch

Bill Welch
 

Apologies for the misspellings, should read: 
  "Machinist Tools For Modeling, Part 1 - Hand Tools" Clinic at recent NERPMBill Welch
Bill Welch

Todd Horton
 

I’ve owned several sets of digital and dial calipers over the years.   Mitutoyo seems to be my favorite but Swiss made Brown & Shape dial calipers are good also. The digital advantage is the ability to switch between metric and standard.  Sadly my American made Starrett calipers are very troublesome and sensitive to metal chips.       Todd Horton 


On Jun 6, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Among the clinics I attended at the recent the NERPM, the most expensive was the one presented by Ryan Mendell, "Machinist Tools For Modellng, Part 1 - Hand Tools." In just two days I have spent about $200 for five new tools and I have not purchased a Digital Caliper yet. Ryan runs the Machine Shops at the University of Toronto and is a Mechanical Engineer who started hanging around a machine shop at age 14. He also was selling a neat little Finger Sander he calls the "tight Spot Sander." Here is a link to the Demo video: https://nationalscalecar.com/product/tight-spot-sanders/

Regarding his presentation, it can be found here, but be careful with your credit card or PayPal account: http://grandtrunkrailway.blogspot.com/

Bill Welch
<DSC_2404.JPG>

Dennis Storzek
 

Another vote for Mitutoyo, which seem to be the standard of industry these days. The batteries last for years even if you forget to turn them off. A word of caution; a couple years ago there was a spate of counterfeit Mitutoyo calipers being sold on ebay. If the price seems to good to be true, it likely is.

Dennis Storzek

James SANDIFER
 

I have Mitutoya dial cals in the garage and Harbor Freight digitals in the house. I prefer the HF ones, and dirt cheap, often on sale for $10.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Todd Horton via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] "Machinist Tools For Modeling, Part 1 - Hand Tools" Clinic ar rent NERPM

 

I’ve owned several sets of digital and dial calipers over the years.   Mitutoyo seems to be my favorite but Swiss made Brown & Shape dial calipers are good also. The digital advantage is the ability to switch between metric and standard.  Sadly my American made Starrett calipers are very troublesome and sensitive to metal chips.       Todd Horton 


On Jun 6, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Among the clinics I attended at the recent the NERPM, the most expensive was the one presented by Ryan Mendell, "Machinist Tools For Modellng, Part 1 - Hand Tools." In just two days I have spent about $200 for five new tools and I have not purchased a Digital Caliper yet. Ryan runs the Machine Shops at the University of Toronto and is a Mechanical Engineer who started hanging around a machine shop at age 14. He also was selling a neat little Finger Sander he calls the "tight Spot Sander." Here is a link to the Demo video: https://nationalscalecar.com/product/tight-spot-sanders/

Regarding his presentation, it can be found here, but be careful with your credit card or PayPal account: http://grandtrunkrailway.blogspot.com/

Bill Welch

<DSC_2404.JPG>

Bill Welch
 

I am considering buying a Mitutoyo from Amazon. One can tell from some of the questions there for the product that there has been problems w/counterfeits but it is easy to return things with Amazon and they do stand behind things. Probably more than I need but like the idea of being able to switch between metric and inches. I have a dial caliper that works well as a gage but I often have difficulty accurately reading the increments on the dial. I am beginning a new freight car kit pattern project and want to do any measuring quickly. This also involves collaborating with someone else and given I am vey much a Rube Goldberg type engineer, I want to minimize any mistakes i may accidentally transmit to my partner on the project

Bill Welch

Jack Burgess
 

I have a Mitutoyo 4” long caliper too after asking Dennis for a recommendation. I love it and, as Dennis mentions, you can leave it on for a long time and the battery is still fine. I still have my analog Craftsman calipers from many decades ago and I still use when measuring something over 4” long. I had two cheap Harbor Freight calipers…one would not turn off and the other ate batteries. You get what you pay for….

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] "Machinist Tools For Modeling, Part 1 - Hand Tools" Clinic ar rent NERPM

 

Another vote for Mitutoyo, which seem to be the standard of industry these days. The batteries last for years even if you forget to turn them off. A word of caution; a couple years ago there was a spate of counterfeit Mitutoyo calipers being sold on ebay. If the price seems to good to be true, it likely is.

Dennis Storzek

Jack Burgess
 

I should have mentioned that Mitutoyo calipers measure to four decimal places…

 

Jack Burgess

Paul Woods
 

Well, I dunno about the rest of you but I don't manage to work to better than two D.P.!

Regards
Paul

Scott
 

I have been slumming it with Harbor Freight calipers and somewhat unbelievable is they have worked fine for years.  It does go through a lot of batteries.  

Scott McDonald

steve_wintner
 

One use for calipers that may not have been mentioned is sneaking up on a fit - e.g. when sanding or filing.  The precision measurement allows you to easily figure out if you are removing material evenly, or have gotten a bit crooked. And, since the jaws stay parallel, it quickly finds the high spots, for example on a resin floor, making it easier to figure out just why it doesn't want to fit between the sides of this kit....

Dennis Storzek
 

Four decimal places in the inch setting... and IIRC that was the tip-off to the counterfeits, they only display three places.

Dennis Storzek

Denny Anspach
 

Jack Burgess hit it on the head when he points out that you get what you pay for: the Harbor Freight and similar are commodity grade or less calipers and if one is into disposable instruments, these can certainly be useful.

I have six calipers, Mititoyo, Helios (German), Brown & …..? (Swiss), none of them new, all extremely accurate, and none…none at all depending on batteries. I use dial calipers routinely, but use only vernier calipers to check on critical measurements. I learned my lesson on the latter some years ago when I found to my chagrin that I could find no one, nada, zip, that would even consider, much less touch a repair on any of the digital calipers (“throw them out”). I also learned that to a man, the fine instrument repair shops use only vernier calipers to check accuracy in their work.

My core instruments are almost all the very best I can find, and in that regard, they have paid, and continue to pay for themselves in accuracy, wear, longevity, and usefulness over the years- the ultimate economy.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA

Charles Peck
 

Absolutely with you, Denny.  When I was working for the US Navy as a machinist, we were not allowed
to have digital calipers in our tool boxes.  Every measuring tool we used had to be traceable back to the
Bureau of Standards.  Our calibration people had no way to connect software to any official standard.
Vernier calipers were OK.  Mechanical dial calipers were allowed to check the size of a drill bit, not a 
finished piece.  Nothing digital at all.
That said, now I'm retired, I have a pair of digitals for such things as checking rail size or styrene strip.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:01 PM Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:
Jack Burgess hit it on the head when he points out that you get what you pay for:  the Harbor Freight and similar are commodity grade or less calipers and if one is into disposable instruments, these can certainly  be useful.

I have six calipers, Mititoyo, Helios (German), Brown & …..? (Swiss), none of them new, all extremely accurate, and none…none at all depending on batteries. I use dial calipers routinely, but use only vernier calipers to check on  critical measurements.  I learned my lesson on the latter some years ago when I found to my chagrin that I could find no one, nada, zip, that would even consider, much less touch a repair on any of the digital calipers (“throw them out”).  I also learned that to a man, the fine instrument repair shops use only vernier calipers to check accuracy in their work.

My core instruments are almost all the very best I can find, and in that regard, they have paid, and continue to pay for themselves in accuracy, wear, longevity, and usefulness over the years-  the ultimate economy.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA




Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 10:34 AM, Charles Peck wrote:
Every measuring tool we used had to be traceable back to the
Bureau of Standards.  Our calibration people had no way to connect software to any official standard.
Vernier calipers were OK.
I thought I was hearing the ghost of Larry Jackman. Nobody in this hobby needs accuracy beyond what is achievable with a decent quality digital caliper, which, by the way, are certifiable by a calibration shop. The main reason for choosing a dial or digital caliper is reduction of errors; it is considerably easier to misread a vernier scale, or screw up the mental math than it is to misread a dial, especially as our eyes get older, and dial calipers still require reading the marks on the slide and adding that to what is shown on the dial. Digitals present the actual number in a format that is hard to misinterpret. If greater accuracy is needed, the micrometer is the tool of choice, of course, those are available in digital version these days too.

Dennis Storzek

Todd Horton
 

Calipers are questionable to 4 places but it’s nice to have that feature. Any time I get into the 4 place I rely on more technologically advanced measuring tools

On Jun 7, 2019, at 1:01 PM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

Jack Burgess hit it on the head when he points out that you get what you pay for: the Harbor Freight and similar are commodity grade or less calipers and if one is into disposable instruments, these can certainly be useful.

I have six calipers, Mititoyo, Helios (German), Brown & …..? (Swiss), none of them new, all extremely accurate, and none…none at all depending on batteries. I use dial calipers routinely, but use only vernier calipers to check on critical measurements. I learned my lesson on the latter some years ago when I found to my chagrin that I could find no one, nada, zip, that would even consider, much less touch a repair on any of the digital calipers (“throw them out”). I also learned that to a man, the fine instrument repair shops use only vernier calipers to check accuracy in their work.

My core instruments are almost all the very best I can find, and in that regard, they have paid, and continue to pay for themselves in accuracy, wear, longevity, and usefulness over the years- the ultimate economy.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA



Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 02:31 PM, Todd Horton wrote:
Calipers are questionable to 4 places but it’s nice to have that feature.
Actually, with regard to the Mitutoyo digitals, the fourth place is limited to 0 or 5. This gives the same functionality as "eyeballing" halfway between the marks on a vernier caliper. It also lets them claim repeatability to .0005", which sounds nice. Just for grins, I looked up their tolerance specs. The 4" and 6" calipers are +/- .001 along their whole range, the 8" +/- .0015, and the 12" +/-.002. One of the things you pay the big bucks for is the assurance that when the jaws are closed, the inside jaws, step, and depth rod are also zeroed within this tolerance, which is not a foregone conclusion with some of the cheap imports. But the real advantage is the battery life; nothing like grabbing the tool and finding out it's dead. With the Mits, the low battery symbol comes on months before it actually dies. That and they last forever. We have a couple that are now thirty years old here at work that get used daily.

Dennis Storzek

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

For most purposes, if you don’t have a temperature-stabilized lab or shop, working to “tenths” is a fiction. The main exception is comparisons between two items in the same place at the same time, and at the same temperature. Just picking up an item can alter its dimensions.

Visit a metrology lab to see how it’s actually done.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jun 7, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 02:31 PM, Todd Horton wrote:
Calipers are questionable to 4 places but it’s nice to have that feature.
Actually, with regard to the Mitutoyo digitals, the fourth place is limited to 0 or 5. This gives the same functionality as "eyeballing" halfway between the marks on a vernier caliper. It also lets them claim repeatability to .0005", which sounds nice. Just for grins, I looked up their tolerance specs. The 4" and 6" calipers are +/- .001 along their whole range, the 8" +/- .0015, and the 12" +/-.002. One of the things you pay the big bucks for is the assurance that when the jaws are closed, the inside jaws, step, and depth rod are also zeroed within this tolerance, which is not a foregone conclusion with some of the cheap imports. But the real advantage is the battery life; nothing like grabbing the tool and finding out it's dead. With the Mits, the low battery symbol comes on months before it actually dies. That and they last forever. We have a couple that are now thirty years old here at work that get used daily.

Dennis Storzek

Richard Townsend
 

So I'm seeing "Mitutoyo" digital calipers on eBay for anywhere from $0.99 to over $100.00. Many are about $30.00. Are the $30.00 ones suspect?

Todd Horton
 

New Mitutoyo calipers for $30 ??    There’s you sign 


On Jun 7, 2019, at 9:00 PM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

So I'm seeing "Mitutoyo" digital calipers on eBay for anywhere from $0.99 to over $100.00. Many are about $30.00. Are the $30.00 ones suspect?