Topics

Re-trucked Bx11/Bx12


mopacfirst
 

What's the truck under this car?

http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf042298rsa.jpg

and this one?

http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf212483ajs.jpg

According to the Dobyne Santa Fe 40' boxcar book, these cars had two-level Dalmans when built.  The (apparently) different spring arrangement, but what appears to be the same sideframe, makes it not obvious that these are the same or different trucks.

Ron Merrick


Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 06:19 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
What's the truck under this car?

http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf042298rsa.jpg
That car appears to be out of service, maybe used for company storage... the tip off ie the Civil Defense emblem on the carside, not something you'd likely see in service. It also looks like the trucks are lacking their full compliment of springs.

Dennis Storzek


Bill Welch
 

#41298 has Dalman Two-Level but appear to be missing the outer springs on each side on each truck I think. Not sure about the other.

Bill Welch


John Moore
 

The emblem you called a Civil Defense emblem is the emblem used to identify cars assigned to zinc concentrate service.
In 1959 there were 185 BX-11 cars live in the series 41200 - 41399
--
okladivjohn@...


Andy Carlson
 

The picture looks a lot like the surviving Santa Fe car an Inyokern, CA, just minutes away from the last two earthquakes of merit in California last week. One side is in surviving paint, the other side repainted for the Feed and Hardware store it is located at.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Tuesday, July 9, 2019, 6:40:09 PM PDT, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:


On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 06:19 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
What's the truck under this car?

http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf042298rsa.jpg
That car appears to be out of service, maybe used for company storage... the tip off ie the Civil Defense emblem on the carside, not something you'd likely see in service. It also looks like the trucks are lacking their full compliment of springs.

Dennis Storzek
_._,_._,_


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    I caught that Civil Defense emblem as well but does tjis necessarily mean the car is out of service?
The issue with the truck springs certainly would but there must be more to thids other than only the
possibility of being used for CD storage. Does anyone know?

Cordially, Don Valentine


mopacfirst
 

The other Bx-11 cars in the 41200 number series that are shown on rr-fallenflags also have that emblem, or at least the evidence of that emblem being painted out.  These cars were photographed at locations far north of Oklahoma in the mid-late sixties, which suggests that they were no longer in captive service (for zinc concentrate from Mexico to a zinc refinery (1917-1992) in Blackwell, OK).  They could have been in hide service, although nothing is stenciled on the car to that effect.  More likely, they were held for service in the grain rush.

The Bx-12 cars shown on rr-fallenflags from the sixties, where the trucks are visible, show a similar configuration as if they could have been Dalman two-level but the outer springs are missing.

Model-wise, I have my answer, I'll use the two-level Dalman under the cars I'm building. 

Ron Merrick


Tim O'Connor
 

This is a Bx-12 truck - it has a wide front opening but doesn't look like any
Dalman I've ever seen. A Dalman BOLSTER face is very distinctive (also attached),
and the outer springs have a tiny shelf to stand on, which I don't see in any of
the pictures.

IOW I don't think there is a truck in HO that exactly matches the ATSF trucks.

Tim O'

On 7/10/2019 7:15 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
The other Bx-11 cars in the 41200 number series that are shown on rr-fallenflags also have that emblem, or at least the evidence of that emblem being painted out.  These cars were photographed at locations far north of Oklahoma in the mid-late sixties, which suggests that they were no longer in captive service (for zinc concentrate from Mexico to a zinc refinery (1917-1992) in Blackwell, OK).  They could have been in hide service, although nothing is stenciled on the car to that effect.  More likely, they were held for service in the grain rush.

The Bx-12 cars shown on rr-fallenflags from the sixties, where the trucks are visible, show a similar configuration as if they could have been Dalman two-level but the outer springs are missing.

Model-wise, I have my answer, I'll use the two-level Dalman under the cars I'm building.

Ron Merrick
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

You are correct Tim that the Santa Fe had an Andrew's truck unlike any Andrews. There was an article in the Santa Fe Warbonnet many years ago on converting the Kadee Andrew's to the Santa Fe prototype.  There were actually two Santa Fe prototypes.  I have been trying for several years to get other modelers excited about this truck.  Possibly some of our more influential members can get a manufactured interest.

The Dalman Andrews is another interesting truck.  
Andy Carlson provided instructions on doing this truck over drinks at Naperville.  This was after selling me a Great Northern boxcar kit that he had cast.  I did make a crude drawing despite the alcohol.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Date: 7/10/19 3:42 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Re-trucked Bx11/Bx12


This is a Bx-12 truck - it has a wide front opening but doesn't look
like any
Dalman I've ever seen. A Dalman BOLSTER face is very distinctive (also
attached),
and the outer springs have a tiny shelf to stand on, which I don't see
in any of
the pictures.

IOW I don't think there is a truck in HO that exactly matches the ATSF
trucks.

Tim O'




On 7/10/2019 7:15 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
> The other Bx-11 cars in the 41200 number series that are shown on
> rr-fallenflags also have that emblem, or at least the evidence of that
> emblem being painted out.  These cars were photographed at locations
> far north of Oklahoma in the mid-late sixties, which suggests that
> they were no longer in captive service (for zinc concentrate from
> Mexico to a zinc refinery (1917-1992) in Blackwell, OK).  They could
> have been in hide service, although nothing is stenciled on the car to
> that effect.  More likely, they were held for service in the grain rush.
>
> The Bx-12 cars shown on rr-fallenflags from the sixties, where the
> trucks are visible, show a similar configuration as if they could have
> been Dalman two-level but the outer springs are missing.
>
> Model-wise, I have my answer, I'll use the two-level Dalman under the
> cars I'm building.
>
> Ron Merrick


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*




Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Note that the Dalman Andrews truck has two different styles of journal box covers, one clearly marked "National".

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/10/19 9:42 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

This is a Bx-12 truck - it has a wide front opening but doesn't look like any
Dalman I've ever seen. A Dalman BOLSTER face is very distinctive (also attached),
and the outer springs have a tiny shelf to stand on, which I don't see in any of
the pictures.

IOW I don't think there is a truck in HO that exactly matches the ATSF trucks.

Tim O'






brianleppert@att.net
 

ATSF 41298 is a Santa Fe Bx-11 box car built with Dalman 2-Level trucks. The photo shows a car much later in life with rebuilt trucks.  The original springs and Barber Lateral Motion Device parts have been removed and replaced with a new spring package.

ATSF 212483 is a Bx-12 class box car.  These cars were built with Dalman 1-Level trucks.  The car in the photo has it's original trucks.

Attached are photos of  Dalman 1-Level trucks.  One is as-built while the other has a replacement spring group.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

please visit www.resincarworks.com/tahoe.htm


mopacfirst
 

Brian:

That's a big help.  Thanks for the additional information.

Ron Merrick


s shaffer
 

Attached are photos of  Dalman 1-Level trucks.  One is as-built while the other has a replacement spring group.
I cannot tell which is which. I think the second picture with the rusty car above is as built.

Steve Shaffer
Las Cruces, New Mexico


brianleppert@att.net
 

Steve, you are correct.  The truck on the right is an as-built Dalman 1-Level with Barber Lateral Motion Device.  It is under a Santa Fe Bx-12 single sheathed box car with raised roof.  The truck on the left has been rebuilt and is under a Santa Fe rebuilt box car.  Both cars are at the museum in Niles Canyon, CA.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Bob Chaparro
 

What type of loading is specified on the stencil for this car?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


mopacfirst
 

It could very well be hide loading.  I can't blow up the photo enough to be completely sure.

The balance of the lettering reads 'WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO AT&SF RY. SANTA FE SPRINGS CALIF.'

I know Santa Fe Springs is heavily industrial, but that's about the limit of my knowledge.

Ron Merrick


Robert J Miller CFA
 

The symbol on the right side of the car in the first photo is for Zinc concentrate loading.

The printing on the left of the door in the second photo is Hide Loading Only …..


Bob Chaparro
 

I grew up right down the road from Santa Fe Springs (Attended Santa Fe High School..the Chiefs!). The orange groves there disappeared in the 1950s but the oil industry was very big going back to the early 1900s. I don't think this car was for hide loading in Santa Fe Springs because there was no packing plant in town.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Bob Chaparro
 

From other folks I'm getting a consensus that the cars were merely stored at Santa Fe Springs and then moved up the line to Vernon and Los Angeles as needed. This does make sense.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA