Topics

Mathieson Tank Cars


Bruce Griffin
 

Group,

I got a bargain on a Kadee ACF 11k insulated tank car lettered for Mathieson Chemicals (SHPX) #2570 stenciled for anhydrous ammonia transport. I am also considering the RCW ACF 8k insulated tank car for Mathieson Chemical (SHPX) 4009-4014 and 4031-4032 stenciled for caustic soda loading to pair together on a through freight. 

I am trying to learn a little more about the car’s contents. Who/where they were produced and then consumed. There are some old posts in this group’s archives and the article linked below possibly point to their Saltville, Va. plant. I was wondering if they would be used together to produce something but that seems unlikely. If they were produced at the same plant they could be shipped out together and appear on the same train and eventually end up on a through freight on the1950 B&O tracks I model. They don’t seem to react strongly together so shipping together doesn’t seem like an issue. 

http://newspapers.digitalnc.org/lccn/2014236906/1954-07-01/ed-1/seq-5.pdf

http://newspapers.digitalnc.org/lccn/2014236906/1954-05-01/ed-1/seq-6.pdf

The article is an interesting read and I am curious if anyone on the group has further insights. Thank you for your consideration 

Beat Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, Md. 


Scott
 

I would be curious what kind of rail car they transported Hydrazine in.  That is some scary stuff.  My good friend said they got hazard pay or something like it when they had to service the EPU on the F16 because of that stuff.

Scott McDonald


C J Wyatt
 

This is what MTH thinks about that (smoking no less):

https://www.mthtrains.com/30-73549

I am not convinced. Nowadays they talk about DOT 105J500W tank cars for the stuff.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, July 18, 2019, 12:22:42 AM EDT, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:





I would be curious what kind of rail car they transported Hydrazine in.  That is some scary stuff.  My good friend said they got hazard pay or something like it when they had to service the EPU on the F16 because of that stuff.

Scott McDonald


Bruce Smith
 

Bruce,


Anhydrous Amonia

https://study.com/academy/lesson/anhydrous-ammonia-uses-safety.html



Caustic Soda

https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2007/11/01/9075189/caustic-soda-uses-and-market-data

Not sure that they would be used together...

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 8:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Mathieson Tank Cars
 
Group,

I got a bargain on a Kadee ACF 11k insulated tank car lettered for Mathieson Chemicals (SHPX) #2570 stenciled for anhydrous ammonia transport. I am also considering the RCW ACF 8k insulated tank car for Mathieson Chemical (SHPX) 4009-4014 and 4031-4032 stenciled for caustic soda loading to pair together on a through freight. 

I am trying to learn a little more about the car’s contents. Who/where they were produced and then consumed. There are some old posts in this group’s archives and the article linked below possibly point to their Saltville, Va. plant. I was wondering if they would be used together to produce something but that seems unlikely. If they were produced at the same plant they could be shipped out together and appear on the same train and eventually end up on a through freight on the1950 B&O tracks I model. They don’t seem to react strongly together so shipping together doesn’t seem like an issue. 

http://newspapers.digitalnc.org/lccn/2014236906/1954-07-01/ed-1/seq-5.pdf

http://newspapers.digitalnc.org/lccn/2014236906/1954-05-01/ed-1/seq-6.pdf

The article is an interesting read and I am curious if anyone on the group has further insights. Thank you for your consideration 

Beat Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, Md. 


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


I like how the car is stencilled NEW 8-19
 
LOL!
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
From: C J Wyatt
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Mathieson Tank Cars



This is what MTH thinks about that (smoking no less):

https://www.mthtrains.com/30-73549

I am not convinced. Nowadays they talk about DOT 105J500W tank cars for the stuff.

Jack Wyatt







On Thursday, July 18, 2019, 12:22:42 AM EDT, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:





I would be curious what kind of rail car they transported Hydrazine in. That is some scary stuff. My good friend said they got hazard pay or something like it when they had to service the EPU on the F16 because of that stuff.

Scott McDonald






Benjamin Hom
 

Claus Schlund wrote:
"I like how the car is stencilled NEW 8-19
LOL!"

Not weird at all.  Tank cars were billed by volume, not weight, so they were light weighed only once during their service lives - when built.  We've pointed this out numerous times over they years on both lists.


Ben Hom


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Ben,
 
Your statement is of course completely correct - I was refering to the notion that nothing about this car's construction makes a 1919 build date plausible.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Mathieson Tank Cars

Claus Schlund wrote:
"I like how the car is stencilled NEW 8-19
LOL!"

Not weird at all.  Tank cars were billed by volume, not weight, so they were light weighed only once during their service lives - when built.  We've pointed this out numerous times over they years on both lists.


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 

Hazard Placards 2029 and 2030.

Highly Corrosive - so either a glass lined or aluminum tank.

On 7/18/2019 12:58 AM, C J Wyatt wrote:

This is what MTH thinks about that (smoking no less):

https://www.mthtrains.com/30-73549

I am not convinced. Nowadays they talk about DOT 105J500W tank cars for the stuff.

Jack Wyatt







On Thursday, July 18, 2019, 12:22:42 AM EDT, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:





I would be curious what kind of rail car they transported Hydrazine in.  That is some scary stuff.  My good friend said they got hazard pay or something like it when they had to service the EPU on the F16 because of that stuff.

Scott McDonald
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Tim O'Connor
 


Perhaps not used together, but sometimes produced together. I think the Penn Salt
and Hooker plants in Tacoma made both. Both products would be used in the northwest
and west coast.





On 7/18/2019 7:34 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


To illustrate Ben's point - a GATC Type 17 built in 1918, photographed in 1957.

The age of the tank was probably important enough to record the built date clearly
on the tank.



On 7/18/2019 8:42 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Claus Schlund wrote:
"I like how the car is stencilled NEW 8-19
LOL!"

Not weird at all.  Tank cars were billed by volume, not weight, so they were light weighed only once during their service lives - when built.  We've pointed this out numerous times over they years on both lists.


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


RICH CHAPIN
 

both are bases, anhydrous ammonia weak, caustic strong, net result of mixing would be to drive ammonia gas out, not good it uncontrolled conditions.
now in a production facility with controls?, could be. I would think no shipping in adjacent tank cars

Rich Chapin 


Jack Mullen
 

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 03:44 AM, RICH CHAPIN wrote:
I would think no shipping in adjacent tank cars
Placement of an anhydrous ammonia tank car next to one of caustic soda isn't prohibited today. Anhydrous is placarded as non-flammable gas, caustic as corrosive.  I can't access some notes I have on steam era hazmat rules, but they covered far fewer commodities, and restrictions were fewer and simpler than modern rules.

Jack Mullen


Jack Mullen
 

On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 08:13 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
The age of the tank was probably important enough to record the built date clearly
on the tank.
Yes, but the built date for the tank isn't the date stenciled next to the weight, it's the built date at the bottom of the tank data at the right end of the tank. There's also a built date on the frame. The three dates are most often the same, but not necessarily so.  A tank of a given age can be mounted on an older or newer frame, and sometimes a tank car bears a weigh date that's newer than the car.

Jack


Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

To close the loop on this thread, I ended up just buying a second Kadee ACF 11k insulated tank car with the same number as the first for the same bargain price of $30.  I assumed there was a SHPX 2571 roaming the rails with SHPX 2570. I don’t have access to all of my data so if anyone can confirm, it would be good to know, but I assume this to be true in 1950. I was able to easily remove the zero and replace it with a one. I will chronicle this in an upcoming blog. 

There were Mathieson plants shipping and recieving anhydrous ammonia at either end of my modeled section of the B&O Old Main Line, so these cars are appropriate for through freights in my 1950 era. Thank you for the insights.  

Best Regards,
Bruce Griffin
Ashland, MD 

PS for my PRR and NCR friends, I biked the RofW from Ashland 21 miles north to New Freedom and had lunch in the old station before heading home. 


Brian Carlson
 

Per Ed Hawkins handout on the Kadee site. You are good.  You could do 10 cars total :)

On Aug 31, 2019, at 11:36 PM, Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:

Friends,

To close the loop on this thread, I ended up just buying a second Kadee ACF 11k insulated tank car with the same number as the first for the same bargain price of $30.  I assumed there was a SHPX 2571 roaming the rails with SHPX 2570. I don’t have access to all of my data so if anyone can confirm, it would be good to know, but I assume this to be true in 1950. I was able to easily remove the zero and replace it with a one. I will chronicle this in an upcoming blog. 

There were Mathieson plants shipping and recieving anhydrous ammonia at either end of my modeled section of the B&O Old Main Line, so these cars are appropriate for through freights in my 1950 era. Thank you for the insights.  

Best Regards,
Bruce Griffin
Ashland, MD 

PS for my PRR and NCR friends, I biked the RofW from Ashland 21 miles north to New Freedom and had lunch in the old station before heading home. 
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pennsylvania1954