Topics

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Probably correct that this load is some part of the base or frame of the machine.

A cyclotron consists mainly of two “D” shaped vacuum chambers surrounded by a big magnet and some RF coils. The two vacuum chambers are arranged flat-face to flat face forming a cylindrical chamber divided into two segments. A beam of electrons circulates inside this chamber, constrained in circular flight by the external magnetic field, and shuttling between the two chambers. The RF alternates the polarity the two “D” chambers, causing the electrons in the rotating beam to be attracted to one, and repelled by the other. Timing the RF polarity-swaps properly causes the electrons to accelerate.

Early cyclotrons were mostly about the size of a garden shed. Later were the size of a house. A big improvement came with the development of superconducting magnets allowing stronger magnetic fields. Modern “atom smashers” are vastly larger, but work mostly the same way, though they are now so big the magnet has to be split into segments and distributed around the ring. The largest in the USA is the “Tevatron” at Fermilab west of Chicago. The world's largest currently is the LHC at CERN in Europe.  Its “ring” is almost 17 miles around, and there are 1232 superconducting magnets to constrain the beam. It’s the largest single machine on Earth.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 21, 2019, at 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
A 1946 photo:
Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.
A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron
I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Tim O'Connor
 


I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Bruce Smith
 

Tim,


The steel floor of these cars likely had holes for rods used as tie downs. Some steel floored flat cars had holes that were essentially a larger diameter circle partially superimposed on a smaller circle. The rod with either a bent end or a bolt on the end, could be fitted through the large hole and then slid over into the smaller hole, resulting in the rod being retained by the deck.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 

I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

C J Wyatt
 

I am guessing that if the riggers did not find a hole near where they needed one, they just cut one themselves.

Jack wyatt

On Sunday, July 21, 2019, 08:54:47 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Tim,


The steel floor of these cars likely had holes for rods used as tie downs. Some steel floored flat cars had holes that were essentially a larger diameter circle partially superimposed on a smaller circle. The rod with either a bent end or a bolt on the end, could be fitted through the large hole and then slid over into the smaller hole, resulting in the rod being retained by the deck.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 

I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

gary laakso
 

There was a plastic model of this car, maybe 40 years ago.  It could have been AHM.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


On Jul 21, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tim,


The steel floor of these cars likely had holes for rods used as tie downs. Some steel floored flat cars had holes that were essentially a larger diameter circle partially superimposed on a smaller circle. The rod with either a bent end or a bolt on the end, could be fitted through the large hole and then slid over into the smaller hole, resulting in the rod being retained by the deck.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 

I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Drew M.
 

Athearn offered it.

Drew Marshall in Philly

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp

On Jul 21, 2019, at 20:59, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
There was a plastic model of this car, maybe 40 years ago.  It could have been AHM.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


On Jul 21, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Bruce Smith < smithbf@...> wrote:

Tim,


The steel floor of these cars likely had holes for rods used as tie downs. Some steel floored flat cars had holes that were essentially a larger diameter circle partially superimposed on a smaller circle. The rod with either a bent end or a bolt on the end, could be fitted through the large hole and then slid over into the smaller hole, resulting in the rod being retained by the deck.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 

I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Charlie Vlk
 

Both are correct.  The car more recently in the Bachmann line was offeted by AHM.  Tooling dates back to the Mantua carded blisterpack RTR copies of various Athearn cars. 
Charlie Vlk

On Jul 21, 2019 8:05 PM, "Drew M. via Groups.Io" <phillydrewcifer@...> wrote:
Athearn offered it.

Drew Marshall in Philly

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp
On Jul 21, 2019, at 20:59, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
There was a plastic model of this car, maybe 40 years ago.  It could have been AHM.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


On Jul 21, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Bruce Smith < smithbf@...> wrote:

Tim,


The steel floor of these cars likely had holes for rods used as tie downs. Some steel floored flat cars had holes that were essentially a larger diameter circle partially superimposed on a smaller circle. The rod with either a bent end or a bolt on the end, could be fitted through the large hole and then slid over into the smaller hole, resulting in the rod being retained by the deck.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 

I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tony Thompson
 

Both are correct.  The car more recently in the Bachmann line was offeted by AHM.  Tooling dates back to the Mantua carded blisterpack RTR copies of various Athearn cars. 

   And before that there was essentially the same car as a kit from M. Dale Newton's Red Ball.

Tony Thompson



Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

I think the owner of the car would have some frank words to say about extra holes being cut in their property; it has been my experience that disaster follows close behind the guy who picks up a gas torch and starts hacking into structures, and cutting new holes would only be a last resort after every other possible method of securing the load had been tried.  If holes for holding-down bolts are not included as part of the original design, then lugs welded to the steel deck are often used, though usually not without the o.k. of the owner's engineering staff first.

Paul W
Whangarei, NZ

Bruce Smith
 

Gary,


The plastic model was/is the Athearn. It has some serious issues, especially with the vertical dimension of the body being grossly too big. There is a resin model of this car in HO scale from F&C. The PRR F34 was a GSC cast body that was sold to multiple railroads including C&NW. 


Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 7:59 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 
There was a plastic model of this car, maybe 40 years ago.  It could have been AHM.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


On Jul 21, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tim,


The steel floor of these cars likely had holes for rods used as tie downs. Some steel floored flat cars had holes that were essentially a larger diameter circle partially superimposed on a smaller circle. The rod with either a bent end or a bolt on the end, could be fitted through the large hole and then slid over into the smaller hole, resulting in the rod being retained by the deck.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 

I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Either running through holes cut in the deck, or welded to the deck. Most likely pass through the deck into some reinforcement (plate or bracket) welded to the underside of the deck, probably fastened to some under-deck frame member. The decks on such cars were somewhat “sacrificial”. They’d cut holes in them, or bolt or weld brackets, flanges, etc. to the top side as needed.

Once the car was empty this ‘junk” was sometimes just left in place. The next user of the car would then need to cut it off and install their own hardware. Even if the left-overs were removed, the deck would often show scarring from all the welds and cut-offs.
Steel floors in gondolas also suffered such indignities. Photos of “empty” cars often show such remains.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
A 1946 photo:
Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.
A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron
I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.
Bob Chaparro


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Another plastic Athearn “200-ton” flatcar clone was one from “Crown” … a whole line of Athearn rip-offs, obviously copies, but with cruder molding and the bodies were often warped.

In addition, somebody (Bachmann?) marketed a modified version of this car … same body but with a single 6-wheel truck under each end instead of the span-bolstered 4-wheel trucks.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 22, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Either running through holes cut in the deck, or welded to the deck. Most likely pass through the deck into some reinforcement (plate or bracket) welded to the underside of the deck, probably fastened to some under-deck frame member. The decks on such cars were somewhat “sacrificial”. They’d cut holes in them, or bolt or weld brackets, flanges, etc. to the top side as needed.

Once the car was empty this ‘junk” was sometimes just left in place. The next user of the car would then need to cut it off and install their own hardware. Even if the left-overs were removed, the deck would often show scarring from all the welds and cut-offs.
Steel floors in gondolas also suffered such indignities. Photos of “empty” cars often show such remains.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
A 1946 photo:
Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.
A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron
I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.
Bob Chaparro


-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 

lol - maybe in New Zealand, but cutting and welding on gondolas and flat cars is
not uncommon in the USA

On 7/22/2019 6:09 AM, Paul Woods wrote:
I think the owner of the car would have some frank words to say about extra holes being cut in their property; it has been my experience that disaster follows close behind the guy who picks up a gas torch and starts hacking into structures, and cutting new holes would only be a last resort after every other possible method of securing the load had been tried.  If holes for holding-down bolts are not included as part of the original design, then lugs welded to the steel deck are often used, though usually not without the o.k. of the owner's engineering staff first.

Paul W
Whangarei, NZ
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Charlie Vlk
 

"Crown" car was the brand name for the RTR Mantua cars that I mentioned in my previous post....the old filing clerk in my head fogot what drawer that factoid was stored in....
Charlie Vlk

On Jul 22, 2019 7:39 AM, "Daniel A. Mitchell" <danmitch@...> wrote:
Another plastic Athearn “200-ton” flatcar clone was one from “Crown” … a whole line of Athearn rip-offs, obviously copies, but with cruder molding and the bodies were often warped.

In addition, somebody (Bachmann?) marketed a modified version of this car … same body but with a single 6-wheel truck under each end instead of the span-bolstered 4-wheel trucks.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 22, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Either running through holes cut in the deck, or welded to the deck. Most likely pass through the deck into some reinforcement (plate or bracket) welded to the underside of the deck, probably fastened to some under-deck frame member. The decks on such cars were somewhat “sacrificial”. They’d cut holes in them, or bolt or weld brackets, flanges, etc. to the top side as needed.

Once the car was empty this ‘junk” was sometimes just left in place. The next user of the car would then need to cut it off and install their own hardware. Even if the left-overs were removed, the deck would often show scarring from all the welds and cut-offs.
Steel floors in gondolas also suffered such indignities. Photos of “empty” cars often show such remains.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
A 1946 photo:
Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.
A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron
I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.
Bob Chaparro


-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



mopacfirst
 

Welding, yes, that happens all the time.  But I don't think cutting holes in a steel flatcar deck was ever a common practice, especially on cars with those 'keyhole' mounting holes as described.  For one thing, you can't make such a hole with a cutting torch, and just cutting a round hole doesn't buy you much if you can't mount some sort of retaining device, like a nut and washer, which would require access to the underside of the deck.

Ron Merrick

spsalso
 

I have some cast metal underframes that seem to match the Athearn heavy duty flat.  I have the impression they were done by MDC.

The Red Ball kit is of a riveted car, not welded.  That, of course, is a good thing--more variety.  I think it (the cast sides, anyway) matches well to an NYC car, but it's been awhile.

For the Athearn car, another problem is the truck centers.  On the prototype, the axle spacing is equal for all four axles of each truck--not so on the Athearn.  When I worked on mine, I gave up and built a new span bolster--something I recommend to cover this problem and the ones Tony pointed out.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Jon Miller
 

    Redball span boosters may still be available, see;

https://www.labellemodels.com/span-bolsters-p-1381.html?osCsid=nmltjfv0kub9st044knbv971j5

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jeff Eggert
 

If you are modeling this car 1954 and later it was rebuilt with some extra frame stiffening approximately between the pairs of trucks.  In 1953 it suffered a frame failure.  Photos are found in the North Western Lines magazine, issue 2006:2.

This car lasted as 48053 till 1977 and lived on as X 261399.

Jeff Eggert

Bob Chaparro
 

I just returned from the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society Convention. A speaker at that convention was Eric Brock, a professional railroader who is very experienced working with shippers on loads. In response to a question about cutting holes in the steel deck of any flat car he says in was a forbidden practice. Sometimes happened but that usually was followed by a notice to the shipper to stop doing it. Welding braces, tie-down structures, etc. was common and approved.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA