Topics

ARA 1932 Matches for Atlas Body Styles

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

I did some work matching between Ed Hawkins' list from the old Steam-Era Freight Car pages ( http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1932aramain.html ) and the Atlas body list Don Burn provided. Below are the roads which more-or-less match the Atlas offerings. A number of odd combinations are missing here, including BAR, CG, NdeM, etc. which don't match any of the body styles. Also missing are some "short tab" (the tabs below the doors) cars with the 4/4 ends which would be an easy conversion, including the 5 ARA demos, three of which went to the C&O and one each to NYC and PRR. Need Duryea underframes? You're on your own.


Style #1 Long Tab Body,  Murphy Panel Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends:   CG, CRR, D&H, I-GN, MEC, MVCMCX/1, MP, M-I, NOT&M, UP/1, WM

Style #2 Long Tab Body,  11-Panel Flat Riveted Roof, Riveted Ends"  L&A, NC&STL, SAL, WRT

Style #3 Short Tab Body, Hutchins Radial Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught End:  C&O, NKP

Style #4 Short Tab Body, Viking Corrugated Roof, Buckeye ends  ERIE

Style #5 Long Tab Body,  11-Panel Flat Rivet Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends SOO

Style #6 Long Tab Body,  Viking Corrugated Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends  NS

Style #7 Long Tab Body,  Murphy Panel Roof, Flat Riveted Ends  NONE THAT I CAN FIND


I'm sure I missed something and I will hear about it shortly.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

steve_wintner
 

The Soo cars were a solid 5 inches wider (IW) than the 1932 standard. Does the Atlas body capture that, or are they 8-9 like the standard would call for?

Granted, that's a minor compromise.

Many of those cars were rebuilt with new roofs later - Murphy diagonal panels. If the Atlas body is a 8-9 IW, not sure how easy modelling that conversion would be. I suppose one could narrow a roof and hide the seam under the running boards.

Steve

steve_wintner
 

I should have also said "thank you"!

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Steve,

Don't know. But like I said, these cars seem to be "more-or-less" correct for the indicated prototypes, which outside of resin is probably the best we're going to get.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/22/19 1:01 PM, steve_wintner via Groups.Io wrote:
The Soo cars were a solid 5 inches wider (IW) than the 1932 standard. Does the Atlas body capture that, or are they 8-9 like the standard would call for?

Granted, that's a minor compromise.

Many of those cars were rebuilt with new roofs later - Murphy diagonal panels. If the Atlas body is a 8-9 IW, not sure how easy modelling that conversion would be. I suppose one could narrow a roof and hide the seam under the running boards.

Steve

Bill Welch
 

I am pretty sure the D&H cars were welded.

Bill Welch

Bruce Smith
 

They were and they were offered as such by Sunshine in HO. They also had some other “oddities” such as 2 rung ladders not eh left side of the sides, instead of 2 grab irons. 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 22, 2019, at 3:45 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I am pretty sure the D&H cars were welded.

Bill Welch

Bill Welch
 

From Steve Winter: "Many of those cars were rebuilt with new roofs later"

Really, which ones please?

Bill Welch

Curt Fortenberry
 


In my notes I have from all the threads when Atlas first released, I have the following.  Correct if it's wrong.

Style 1:  WM had Duryea underframes.

Style 3:  I have CP listed as well????

Curt Fortenberry

Brian Carlson
 

I think he means the Soo cars specifically 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jul 22, 2019, at 4:53 PM, Curt Fortenberry <curtfortenberry@...> wrote:


In my notes I have from all the threads when Atlas first released, I have the following.  Correct if it's wrong.

Style 1:  WM had Duryea underframes.

Style 3:  I have CP listed as well????

Curt Fortenberry

Bill Welch
 

Done initially by Bill Dulmaine of Yankee Clipper was the variation w/Murphy ends and flat roof owned by the CGW and NdeM. NdeM cars rode on Andrews trucks. I take dot Mr. Dulmaine once on the phone why he did not offer the NdeM kit and he said the decals would have been required so i bought an extra kit and used Walther decals that had multi colored emblem. Sunshine eventually offered the configuration also.

Reminder there is an excellent and comprehensive book about these cars with practically every known photo know to humankind in the book.

Bill Welch

steve_wintner
 

Yes, I did mean the Soo cars. Dennis Storzek found one that was not, but most apparently were, as well as the 10-0 IH 1937 cars the Soo bought, which also had the flat, lap seam roof as built.  (at least as far as I understand various threads on the Soo list).

Not sure about other roads.
Steve

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Curt,

Yes, WM did have Duryea underframes. I ignored this on purpose, since were were only talking about body styles.

CP was not on the list because their cars had a radial Murphy roof, something Atlas did not tool.

I should have left out the D&H cars because they had 4/5 ends, which Atlas did not tool. All had welded underframes (as did the UP's single car), and one group had welded bodies as well. I was aware of the short left side ladders, but this is a minor detail.

I will repost the list shortly, but will wait until tomorrow in case more corrections come in.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/22/19 4:53 PM, Curt Fortenberry wrote:

In my notes I have from all the threads when Atlas first released, I have the following.  Correct if it's wrong.

Style 1:  WM had Duryea underframes.

Style 3:  I have CP listed as well????

Curt Fortenberry

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi Garth,

     While the seams in some made them look riveted I thoughr all the D&H cars had welded sides.
Is this not the case? These D&H cars all developed the same pattern of sinks and high spots on their
sides that gavce then a swallow waffle effect.What I don't understand is why Atlas didn't use the flat
panel roof on their Seaboard cars since they offered it on others.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Bruce Smith
 

Don,


All of the D&H cars had welded side sheets, but some had varying degrees of riveting for other parts.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 9:06 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ARA 1932 Matches for Atlas Body Styles
 
Hi Garth,

     While the seams in some made them look riveted I thoughr all the D&H cars had welded sides.
Is this not the case? These D&H cars all developed the same pattern of sinks and high spots on their
sides that gavce then a swallow waffle effect.What I don't understand is why Atlas didn't use the flat
panel roof on their Seaboard cars since they offered it on others.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Don,

Indeed, according to Ed Hawkins' and Ted Culotta's list all four blocks of the D&H cars had welded sides. These were built by the D&H itself, the first block at Oneonta and the remainder at Green Island. They all had 4-5 Dreadnaught ends, which Atlas never tooled. They didn't belong on the list I submitted, and this will be been corrected shortly.

Atlas body style 2 is more or less correct for Seaboard, and this was the car used by John Golden and Justin May in their March 2009 SEABOARD COAST LINE MODELER article. They note that the roof has flat panels with rivet detail, but lacks the lap seams. I don't know what lettering did on production runs of this car. Are you saying they offered Seaboard lettering on the Style 1 body?

The only Atlas models I every bought were WM (lacking a Duryea underframe) and I-GN, both Style 1 bodies. My hobby dealer retired and went out of business about the time the decorated Style 2 was produced, and I never saw any Seaboard cars.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/22/19 10:06 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Garth,

     While the seams in some made them look riveted I thoughr all the D&H cars had welded sides.
Is this not the case? These D&H cars all developed the same pattern of sinks and high spots on their
sides that gavce then a swallow waffle effect.What I don't understand is why Atlas didn't use the flat
panel roof on their Seaboard cars since they offered it on others.

Cordially, Don Valentine

mopacfirst
 

Garth:

MP 31400-31499 also had Duryea underframe, as noted on Ed's list.  I buy your logic in not covering these, since Atlas didn't attempt to model them.

I've picked up a few of these on eBay, and I'd use this list to pick up a few more but most of my rolling stock is packed and I don't have records of what I own.

Side note -- I built several of the Sunshine MP cars, and still have one or two unbuilt ones from other railroads.  But I've picked up at least one each F&C and Yankee Clipper MP cars, so if I build those I'll have models of 1932 cars from four different builders/

Ron Merrick

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi Garth,

    I have Ted's book and a few other photos of the 1932 cars. I have only five of the Atlas cars and may
have gotten confused on the Seaboard car becasue I juts brought it out and find it had never been opened.
It has been now and is the correct Type 2 car with the correct 11 panel flat roof. Mine has the "Route of
the Orange Blossom Special" lettering as road #18047 but Atlas has also offered the Seaboard car with
that nomenclatureand just the simple Seaboard lettering. I believe it is the N.C.&St.L. car that may have
the wrong roof as from your list it appears that should also be a Type 2 model but mine is a type 7 with
a Murphy 12 panel roof and flat, riveted end.. My next model of these cars is MEC #4499 which, as it is
supposed to be, is a Type 1. There were still a few of these around when I first became professionally
involved with the MEC 50 years ago, though bu that tinme they were painted green, not brown! Lastly I
have a pair of the Erie version, one with the original small diamond herald the other with the larger version.
To hell with this 'logo' nonsense and the lack of respect that infers, it is a herald or an emblem to me. New
England Yankee to the core that I am, these Erie cars are still the nicest part of the 1932 ARA cars from
Atlas IMHO. They are the only models I have ever seen with a correct Buckeye end and Atlas has done
a superb job with them, Having them with both sizes of Erie diamond heralds is simply the frosting on the
cake. I do not understand how Atlas could do such a superlative job with these 1932 ARA series cars and
fall flat on their faces as they did with the USRA rebuilds. I will own more of these 1932 ARA cars before
being done with them as they are a great addition to my 1948 car fleet.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Don,

F&C did the Buckeye end, but only on their Erie milk car. AFAIK, this car was also based on the ARA 1932 design. I have a pair of the milk cars which I bought to use on another layout concept, and due to changing interests never assembled. In comparison with the other two unassembled F&C 1932 boxcars I have in my pile, the ends seem to be a perfect match. I was planning on matching the boxcar sides to the Buckeye ends and Viking roof to do the Erie boxcar. I haven't figured out what to do with reefer sides (the door is too wide), so these would still end up as a freelanced car. (Sigh).

A moot point anyway, as most of my model railroad time is now devoted to O-scale British narrow gauge, the freelance Scottish Midlands Light Railway. Once I had seen and ridden behind those "Great Little Trains", they got under my skin, and Scotland, well, "tis thee hame o'mine ayne folk" (meaning my ancestors).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff (a proud Napier, Ferguson and Wilson descendant)

On 7/23/19 7:02 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Garth,

    I have Ted's book and a few other photos of the 1932 cars. I have only five of the Atlas cars and may
have gotten confused on the Seaboard car becasue I juts brought it out and find it had never been opened.
It has been now and is the correct Type 2 car with the correct 11 panel flat roof. Mine has the "Route of
the Orange Blossom Special" lettering as road #18047 but Atlas has also offered the Seaboard car with
that nomenclatureand just the simple Seaboard lettering. I believe it is the N.C.&St.L. car that may have
the wrong roof as from your list it appears that should also be a Type 2 model but mine is a type 7 with
a Murphy 12 panel roof and flat, riveted end.. My next model of these cars is MEC #4499 which, as it is
supposed to be, is a Type 1. There were still a few of these around when I first became professionally
involved with the MEC 50 years ago, though bu that tinme they were painted green, not brown! Lastly I
have a pair of the Erie version, one with the original small diamond herald the other with the larger version.
To hell with this 'logo' nonsense and the lack of respect that infers, it is a herald or an emblem to me. New
England Yankee to the core that I am, these Erie cars are still the nicest part of the 1932 ARA cars from
Atlas IMHO. They are the only models I have ever seen with a correct Buckeye end and Atlas has done
a superb job with them, Having them with both sizes of Erie diamond heralds is simply the frosting on the
cake. I do not understand how Atlas could do such a superlative job with these 1932 ARA series cars and
fall flat on their faces as they did with the USRA rebuilds. I will own more of these 1932 ARA cars before
being done with them as they are a great addition to my 1948 car fleet.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Scott H. Haycock
 

If anyone is interested, I have a copy of Ted's 1932 ARA Box Car Book, published in 2004. This book is in excellent condition and I will sell it for $55.00 shipped via media mail to the lower 48. Contact me Off List.


Scott Haycock