Topics

SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


The comments following Lester Brewer’s post on his excellent container car got my attention.  When if finished the above car I felt that as a Southern Pacific modeler this car never saw SP trackage.  My suspicions were reinforced by the comments that Lester’s cart probably never ventured off line.  I recently uncovered pbotos of a single DT&I hoopper cdar and a red, white and blue New Haven car in San Francisco gave credence to a couple of other (odd balls) on my roster.

Until somthing turns up on this I will just have to blink:

Bill Pardie

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Pardie wrote:
"Until something turns up on this I will just have to blink."

"Modeling all of the exceptions does not an exceptional layout make." - John Nehrich


Ben Hom

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

The examples that you site are all different from each other!

1) DT&I hopper. As has been stated here many, many times, it was possible for midwestern or even right coast road hoppers to make their way to the coast. This was typically not “unusual” but for that commodity, was “normal” in that a left coast customer needed a very specific mineral product in carload amounts. Most frequently we have been referred to metallurgical coal.

2) Red, white, and blue New Haven car. These “RB” cars could potentially be called to the left coast with a load of Maine potatoes. Alternatively, they could make their way to the left coast in the off season to be used for Washington State potatoes, or other cargoes in need of insulated service (or potentially even just as general service cars.)

3) PRR gondola with LCL containers. NOPE

4) Your photo, PRR gondola with MINERAL containers. Unlikely, but possible. One thing trends towards the unlikely, in that these containers were often used for cement, which was a “local” commodity. OTOH, they could be used for small batches of coke or lime, and therefore might be ordered up, much like the DT&I hopper above.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Aug 19, 2019, at 2:13 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

<DSCN2248.jpg>

The comments following Lester Brewer’s post on his excellent container car got my attention.  When if finished the above car I felt that as a Southern Pacific modeler this car never saw SP trackage.  My suspicions were reinforced by the comments that Lester’s cart probably never ventured off line.  I recently uncovered pbotos of a single DT&I hoopper cdar and a red, white and blue New Haven car in San Francisco gave credence to a couple of other (odd balls) on my roster.

Until somthing turns up on this I will just have to blink:

Bill Pardie

Douglas Harding
 

Bill I had the same thoughts about the Broadway Limited PRR K7A stockcar, never thought needed one and have so far avoided buying one. Then I found a document showing one was loaded in S St Paul MN destined for a farmer on the M&StL in Minburn, Iowa, in 1945. That is close enough to my time frame to justify the occasional appearance. Despite what many think, stockcars did get off road. And yes a PRR would be an oddball, but it did happen occasionally. Plus the MSTL had a direct connection the PRR at Peoria, meaning it may have happened more than once.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 2:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

 

 

The comments following Lester Brewer’s post on his excellent container car got my attention.  When if finished the above car I felt that as a Southern Pacific modeler this car never saw SP trackage.  My suspicions were reinforced by the comments that Lester’s cart probably never ventured off line.  I recently uncovered pbotos of a single DT&I hoopper cdar and a red, white and blue New Haven car in San Francisco gave credence to a couple of other (odd balls) on my roster.

 

Until somthing turns up on this I will just have to blink:

 

Bill Pardie

spsalso
 

Bruce mentioned that the containers in the PRR container car were "often used for cement" or "small batches of coke or lime".

From Scott Thompson's "Great Northern Equpment Color Pictorial, Book Two":

The GN used such containers (in gons) to haul ferro-chrome from Washington state to Detroit.

The GN also used them to haul ferro-silicon from Washington to "somewhere".  Considering that those GN cars were in a pool with Western Maryland container gons, one might expect the GN cars to show up way east.  And, of course, Western Maryland container gons in Washington.

I photographed one of the GN container gons in Oakland CA in 1976.  What its business was, I don't know.  Right next to the car was Judson Steel.  And right next to Judson Steel was a paint company, Sherwin-Williams, perhaps.  After 1960, of course.  But still getting around.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

anthony wagner
 

In 1950 PRR had "only" 5623 G-22 gons plus another 258 in container service. For modeling purposes simply remove the containers and substitute a load of steel shapes or some sort of crated load. As has been said by others Pennsy's cars went everywhere. On 1-1-50 PRR owned a mere 208699 freight cars, nearly 10% of the entire US fleet. Tony Wagner

On Monday, August 19, 2019, 3:34:23 PM CDT, spsalso via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:


Bruce mentioned that the containers in the PRR container car were "often used for cement" or "small batches of coke or lime".

From Scott Thompson's "Great Northern Equpment Color Pictorial, Book Two":

The GN used such containers (in gons) to haul ferro-chrome from Washington state to Detroit.

The GN also used them to haul ferro-silicon from Washington to "somewhere".  Considering that those GN cars were in a pool with Western Maryland container gons, one might expect the GN cars to show up way east.  And, of course, Western Maryland container gons in Washington.

I photographed one of the GN container gons in Oakland CA in 1976.  What its business was, I don't know.  Right next to the car was Judson Steel.  And right next to Judson Steel was a paint company, Sherwin-Williams, perhaps.  After 1960, of course.  But still getting around.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Jon Miller
 

On 8/19/2019 12:13 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
The comments following Lester Brewer’s post on his excellent container car got my attention.  When if finished the above car I felt that as a Southern Pacific modeler this car never saw SP trackage.

    If you look at my picture (green Red Ball kit), on the resin list, you will see that car in the right of the picture.  I think this deserves a very big grin or laugh.  And I can feel Ben quivering in his boots.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Benjamin Hom
 

Jon Miller wrote:
"And I can feel Ben quivering in his boots."

Quivering?  I could care less.  It's your fantasy.


Ben Hom

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

Cool!! I bought the TANGENT container gondola - now I just need Walthers to
rerun their excellent open top bulk containers :-)

Tim O'

On 8/19/2019 4:34 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:
Bruce mentioned that the containers in the PRR container car were "often used for cement" or "small batches of coke or lime".

From Scott Thompson's "Great Northern Equpment Color Pictorial, Book Two":

The GN used such containers (in gons) to haul ferro-chrome from Washington state to Detroit.

The GN also used them to haul ferro-silicon from Washington to "somewhere".  Considering that those GN cars were in a pool with Western Maryland container gons, one might expect the GN cars to show up way east.  And, of course, Western Maryland container gons in Washington.

I photographed one of the GN container gons in Oakland CA in 1976.  What its business was, I don't know.  Right next to the car was Judson Steel.  And right next to Judson Steel was a paint company, Sherwin-Williams, perhaps.  After 1960, of course.  But still getting around.


Ed

Edward Sutorik
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

David Soderblom
 

Look, it’s your own, individual layout and scenario you are creating.  There is no such thing as absolute fidelity to a “truth,” because that apparent truth involved lots and lots of variation.  It’s all statistical, which is to say with lots and lots of variation.  If you look, for example, at UP consists during WWII from the conductor’s notebooks, you’ll see rare and exceptional cars in the lists.  Just the war?  Somewhere (I wish I could identify the source), someone posted scanned notes from someone on Long Island in the 1950s of all the cars they saw there.  That’s a pretty anomalous zone to record, given its relative remoteness, yet you’ll see cars from pretty much every road in the book (ORER).

Do it your way, and don’t apologize.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA





Tim O'Connor
 


I look at it this way - if you model any important mainline railroad yard
as part of a layout, then a complete ABSENCE of oddball cars is just as odd
as a yard full of oddball cars.

And if you do have some oddballs, make sure they appear less often than the
more usual cars.

"moderation is best in all things"

Tim


On 8/19/2019 6:56 PM, David Soderblom wrote:
Look, it’s your own, individual layout and scenario you are creating.  There is no such thing as absolute fidelity to a “truth,” because that apparent truth involved lots and lots of variation.  It’s all statistical, which is to say with lots and lots of variation.  If you look, for example, at UP consists during WWII from the conductor’s notebooks, you’ll see rare and exceptional cars in the lists.  Just the war?  Somewhere (I wish I could identify the source), someone posted scanned notes from someone on Long Island in the 1950s of all the cars they saw there.  That’s a pretty anomalous zone to record, given its relative remoteness, yet you’ll see cars from pretty much every road in the book (ORER).

Do it your way, and don’t apologize.


David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

I look at it this way - if you model any important mainline railroad yard
as part of a layout, then a complete ABSENCE of oddball cars is just as odd
as a yard full of oddball cars.

And if you do have some oddballs, make sure they appear less often than the
more usual cars.

     Indeed. Or as Tim has phrased it in the past, any ONE of the oddball reporting marks ought to be quite rare, but the group of ALL oddballs is not small, so needs to be represented. But, of course, carefully . . .

Tony Thompson



spsalso
 

Thus only ONE Schnabel flat at a time.

You've been warned!


Ed

Edward Sutorik

spsalso
 

Tim,

Yup, the WM car's a winner.

I'd REALLY like the containers done in GN.  And then there's the car (see attached).


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

That's a great photo! Is it one of the ACF cars built in 1952 (attached) or was it
from a different group?




On 8/19/2019 9:02 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:
Tim,

Yup, the WM car's a winner.

I'd REALLY like the containers done in GN.  And then there's the car (see attached).


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

To add: I found that the research into what customers existed along my reach of RR was time more than well spent. When a photo like the attached then came along, I pretty much knew exactly what cars would go where, and what to build to populate my layout.

To point: string of empty gons - USSteel Duquesne Works Merchant Mills; PRR X53 Insulated Damage Free box cars - USSteel coils on pallets; C&O 50-foot double door - USSteel Irvin Works - auto body panels

...you get the idea

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Soderblom
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 6:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

Look, it’s your own, individual layout and scenario you are creating. There is no such thing as absolute fidelity to a “truth,” because that apparent truth involved lots and lots of variation. It’s all statistical, which is to say with lots and lots of variation. If you look, for example, at UP consists during WWII from the conductor’s notebooks, you’ll see rare and exceptional cars in the lists. Just the war? Somewhere (I wish I could identify the source), someone posted scanned notes from someone on Long Island in the 1950s of all the cars they saw there. That’s a pretty anomalous zone to record, given its relative remoteness, yet you’ll see cars from pretty much every road in the book (ORER).

Do it your way, and don’t apologize.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@... <mailto:drs@...>

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi everyone,

With respect to the photo that Elden referenced in his email, I'm impressed by how clean the empty gondola interiors are. No junk, no dunnage, no crud.

Claus Schlund

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

To add: I found that the research into what customers existed along my reach of RR was time more than well spent. When a photo like the attached then came along, I pretty much knew exactly what cars would go where, and what to build to populate my layout.

To point: string of empty gons - USSteel Duquesne Works Merchant Mills; PRR X53 Insulated Damage Free box cars - USSteel coils on pallets; C&O 50-foot double door - USSteel Irvin Works - auto body panels

...you get the idea

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Soderblom
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 6:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

Look, it’s your own, individual layout and scenario you are creating. There is no such thing as absolute fidelity to a “truth,” because that apparent truth involved lots and lots of variation. It’s all statistical, which is to say with lots and lots of variation. If you look, for example, at UP consists during WWII from the conductor’s notebooks, you’ll see rare and exceptional cars in the lists. Just the war? Somewhere (I wish I could identify the source), someone posted scanned notes from someone on Long Island in the 1950s of all the cars they saw there. That’s a pretty anomalous zone to record, given its relative remoteness, yet you’ll see cars from pretty much every road in the book (ORER).

Do it your way, and don’t apologize.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@... <mailto:drs@...>

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Yes, it is one of 24 of the GN ACF cars 72500-72749 equipped with containers in 1955 and renumbered 72750-72773.

Staffan Ehnbom

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:01 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Ed

That's a great photo! Is it one of the ACF cars built in 1952 (attached) or was it
from a different group?




On 8/19/2019 9:02 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:

Tim,

Yup, the WM car's a winner.

I'd REALLY like the containers done in GN.  And then there's the car (see attached).


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

spsalso
 

Tim,

The answer to your question is:  "Yes" and "No".

There are three number series of interest:  GN 72500-72749, GN 72750-72770, and GN 72771-72773.

The latter two were made up of cars pulled from the former, and were the ones used in container service.  So that's a qualified "Yes".

The "No" comes up because, first, the cars apparently got roller bearings fairly quickly after conversion.  Also, all the pictures of these cars in Thompson's book show additional reinforced ribs on the car side (2 per side) (see my photo).  He shows three shots of the container cars with the reinforcements.  But he also shows one shot of a car in the "regular" series with the reinforcements.  As you know, Sunshine did these cars.  It would appear doable to add the reinforcing ribs.  I don't think Sunshine offered this version, though I could be wrong.

I am attaching two overhead views of the car and the containers.  From the pictures, I don't see that there was any modification to the inside of the car for the containers.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

spsalso
 

Tim (and all),

Re:  that modified rib.  I am attaching a photo to show the difference between it and a "regular" rib.  I do not have a good side shot of the rib.  I think the photos in Thompson's book would be adequate.

Ed

Edward Sutorik