Oregon short line stock cars
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Brad Andonian
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Ray Breyer
>>Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period >>Brad Andonian Just crack open a few ORERS, and you'll have all the evidence you'll ever need. 12/1930 ORER: OSL - 2887 OWR&N - 544 LA&SL - 191 UP - 2733 (100% of the stock car fleet were under 40' long) 1/1945 ORER: OSL - 2034 (and 370 40-foot) OWR&N - 464 LA&SL - 142 UP - 2287 (and 556 40-foot) (84% of the stock fleet were short cars) 1/1955 ORER: OSL 6 (and 334 40-foot) OWR&N - 1 UP - 929 (and 2069 40-foot) (28% of the stock fleet were short cars) 1/1959 ORER: UP - 840 (and 2683 40-foot) (24% of the stock car fleet were short cars) Ray Breyer Elgin, IL
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Charlie Vlk
Brad- CB&Q SM16 stock cars were 36’ and lasted well into the BN era (not renumbered AFAIK) and even past the movement of livestock being used to carry ties. I don’t have the stats to back this up but as I recall they were more prevalent on the East End (aka racetrack) than the 40’ Q stock cars and certainly the stretched Mathers. Charlie Vlk
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Breyer via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 9:05 AM To: STMFC <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars
>>Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period >>Brad Andonian
OSL - 2887 OWR&N - 544 LA&SL - 191 UP - 2733 (100% of the stock car fleet were under 40' long)
1/1945 ORER: OSL - 2034 (and 370 40-foot) OWR&N - 464 LA&SL - 142 UP - 2287 (and 556 40-foot) (84% of the stock fleet were short cars)
1/1955 ORER: OSL 6 (and 334 40-foot) OWR&N - 1 UP - 929 (and 2069 40-foot) (28% of the stock fleet were short cars)
1/1959 ORER: UP - 840 (and 2683 40-foot) (24% of the stock car fleet were short cars)
Ray Breyer Elgin, IL
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Allan Smith
Oregon Short Line 36' Stock Cars I have a file Diagrams Union Pacific Freight Cars 1926 Oregon Short Line Folio 1500 That has diagrams of the S-30 36' OSL stock Cars. I got it off the internet But can't now access it. If anyone can find that file, it will give you the drawings for the cars you requested. Al Smith Sonora CA
On Friday, September 6, 2019, 10:59:12 AM PDT, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:
Brad- CB&Q SM16 stock cars were 36’ and lasted well into the BN era (not renumbered AFAIK) and even past the movement of livestock being used to carry ties. I don’t have the stats to back this up but as I recall they were more prevalent on the East End (aka racetrack) than the 40’ Q stock cars and certainly the stretched Mathers. Charlie Vlk
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Breyer via Groups.Io
>>Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period >>Brad Andonian
OSL - 2887 OWR&N - 544 LA&SL - 191 UP - 2733 (100% of the stock car fleet were under 40' long)
1/1945 ORER: OSL - 2034 (and 370 40-foot) OWR&N - 464 LA&SL - 142 UP - 2287 (and 556 40-foot) (84% of the stock fleet were short cars)
1/1955 ORER: OSL 6 (and 334 40-foot) OWR&N - 1 UP - 929 (and 2069 40-foot) (28% of the stock fleet were short cars)
1/1959 ORER: UP - 840 (and 2683 40-foot) (24% of the stock car fleet were short cars)
Ray Breyer Elgin, IL
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Douglas Harding
Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.
Attached are a few photos.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:06 PM To: STMFC Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars
Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period
Many thanks Brad Andonian
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Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Doug,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It occurs to me that a preference and survival factor for 36' or 37' foot stock cars might have been to fit existing multiple loading/unloading chutes at major stock yards, packing plants, or railroad-owned rest stations. Rebuilding chutes and pens to fit 40' cars would have been an expense both railroads and customers would have wanted to avoid, particularly in the face of increasing truck competition by the 1950s. After WWII, new or modernized plants might have been designed with 40' cars in mind. Of course some roads had both 37' and 40' cars, and some even longer by the 1950s (B&O, PRR and NKP come to mind). Length may have depended greatly on customer needs, including the type of livestock shipped. The WP dealt with a lot of pig shipments on a fixed route, and double-deck 37' cars worked fine, yet they also had both 37' and 40' single-deck cars chiefly for cattle. It was the 37' double-deck pig cars that lasted the longest. The D&RGW rebuilt 36' boxcars into stock cars up into the war years, but their new/rebuilt post-war cars were 40'. The majority of both lengths were double-decked to carry sheep (especially) or calves, though some classes had lower decks with enough head room for full-grown cows. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 9/7/2019 1:43 AM, Douglas Harding
wrote:
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William Hirt
To add to Doug's info, this is a roster of CB&Q 36' stock cars as of January 1, 1966. As they were all built in the mid-late 1920s, they existed in the 1939/40 time frame and as Charlie Vlk noted well into the BN era.
On live stock, I recently received my
copy of Santa Fe Livestock Operations by Steve Sandifer. If you
have any interest at all in livestock operations, you want a copy
of this book. Numerous stories and info from the Santa Fe files
that is applicable to a number of railroads modeling stock
operations.
Bill Hirt
On 9/7/2019 12:43 AM, Douglas Harding
wrote:
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Douglas Harding
OSL 1926 Freight Car diagrams can be found at https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Union-Pacific-Equip-Diagrams/OSL-1926-Freight-Cars/i-krT4w2W
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 12:43 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars
Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.
Attached are a few photos.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period
Many thanks Brad Andonian
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Douglas Harding
Garth you are correct. Many livestock handling facilities were originally set for 36’ cars. But as they were built of wood, which deteriorates when exposed to corrosive elements like urine, pens and chutes were repaired and even rebuilt, and 40 cars could be accommodated. Every road I cited did have 40’ cars, especially as they moved to all steel cars. The CB&Q also had 50’ Mather stockcars after the time of this list. The UP had 60’ cars. And then there was NP’s 86’ pig palace cars.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 3:52 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars
Doug, On 9/7/2019 1:43 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:
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For what it might be worth, the Rock Island moved to 40 foot
stock cars beginning with the purchase of 250 from the Ryan Car Company in 1930
(the new Rocket Express kit in HO.) They followed that by rebuilding 40
foot single sheathed boxcars of the B1 and B2 classes. Westerfield offers
multiple versions of these B2 conversions. The RI did not have a very
large fleet of stock cars as a percentage of its fleet, like about 8% in 1930
and down to about 3% by 1950. There is ample photo evidence that RI trains
often included stock cars from other railroads in our late steam and transition
eras.
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2019 8:58 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars Garth you are correct. Many livestock handling facilities were originally set for 36’ cars. But as they were built of wood, which deteriorates when exposed to corrosive elements like urine, pens and chutes were repaired and even rebuilt, and 40 cars could be accommodated. Every road I cited did have 40’ cars, especially as they moved to all steel cars. The CB&Q also had 50’ Mather stockcars after the time of this list. The UP had 60’ cars. And then there was NP’s 86’ pig palace cars.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Garth Groff
Doug, On 9/7/2019 1:43 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:
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mopacfirst
For a short time, the UPHS offered a kit for the S-40-6, which I assumed when I ordered them were 40' cars. In fact, they were 36', and the kit is an interesting mix of Red Caboose parts from the SP stock car kit they made plus, apparently, some new tooling. I appealed on this list for a photo, got one, for which I'm grateful, and built the cars. It's a bit fussy construction with all those grab irons, but turned out well.
I paint the inside surfaces of stock car kits, if not already painted, with Scalecoat Tie Brown color (in the rattle can). I was concerned with there not being enough room for weight, so I added some lead sheet under the upper deck since there was already a lip around the edge of the molding. That plus some underbody weight in the centersill made the cars quite well within the proper weight range (as I recall, at least 4 oz.). Ron Merrick
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Donald B. Valentine
Hi Doug, The CB&Q stock car with the double decked load of sheep is a cocoker given the full height IC car behind it and a similar car to the right. Such photos really illustrate the diminutive size of such cars. Thanks for posting it. Cordially, Don Valentine
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Charlie Vlk
All- Drawings for the CB&Q 36 Ft car appeared in Mainline Modeler. HO brass cars and resin kits have been available in the past. If my 3D CAD buddy ever gets his printers going I’ll have cars (at least for myself) in N Scale as he did Solidworks drawings for them some time ago…the test prints done on a Prefactory machine were exquisite with the entire car, roofwalks, brake wheel and fully detailed separated structural member underframe cast in one piece. It was beautiful but impractical as there was no provision for mounting operating trucks and couplers. The file has since been modified to make the body and a simplified underframe as separate castings. The SM16 is one of the signature cars of the CB&Q….built on recycled National Steel Dump Car underframes in keeping with the Q’s “thriftiness”…. Charlie Vlk
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William Hirt
To close the circle, here is a roster of CB&Q 40' Stock Cars:
By the late 1950's the CB&Q was
already moving on a regular basis Illinois hogs to Tobin Packing
in Albany and Rochester NY on the NYC. I have a copy of a
presentation Steve Holding did at the Burlington Historical
Society meet a few years ago that also showed D&RGW and UP
cars being used on the Q for loading hogs in this service.
In 2007, Russ Strodtz posted some
switch lists of CB&Q connection cars to the IHB at Congress
Park IL. Doug Harding was part of this discussion on the Railway
Bull Shippers list. Here are the ones with Hogs:
July 25, 1959
LW68 503-502-514-506 [SD24's] I/C
01:00 a.m. [Lincoln West]
CB&Q 56752 Hogs NYC
62 130-166-126 [F3 AB-F7 B-F3 BA] I/C
05:10 a.m. [A Denver train]
SLSX 71167 Hogs NYC
SLSX 71427 Hogs NYC 82 114AB-135BA [FT AB-F3 BA] I/C
11:50 a.m. [A Dayton's Bluff train]
[Most of setout from South St Paul] CB&Q 52508 Hogs MC
CB&Q 52138 Hogs MC CB&Q 52771 Hogs MC CB&Q 52716 Hogs MC 1stLC 116DC-120CD [F3 ABBA] I/C
12:20 p.m. [A Omaha train but this consist looks like only Kansas
City and St Joseph traffic which would have come into Galesburg on
#70]
CB&Q 56415 Hogs NYC
CB&Q 58711 Hogs NYC CB&Q 56635 Hogs NYC CB&Q 56619 Hogs NYC CB&Q 59421 Hogs NYC CB&Q 58708 Hogs NYC CB&Q 58626 Hogs NYC Extra East 154ABC [F2A-FTBA] I/C 08:10
p.m.
CB&Q 56752 Hogs Not shown, probably NYC As Russ wrote, that's all.
Lots of Q 36' stock cars moving hogs
just on this one day.
Bill Hirt
On 9/7/2019 9:39 AM, Donald B.
Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
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Jim Mischke
A small clarification: B&O long stock cars were a 1960-1962 vintage innovation. Not steam era. By the late 1950's, B&O was returning their leased wood Mather stock cars. During 1960-62, B&O leased some converted ex-ATSF whalebelly boxcars from Mather sucessor North American, these were dubbed "Livestock Special" in a colorful paint scheme. In 1962, B&O concocted its own 50' stock cars by extending M-26 subclass cores by 10 feet. B&O 40' Mather stock car link (scroll halfway down): http://www.richyodermodels.com/mather-stock-car-reserve.htm B&O ex-ATSF Livestock Special stock car link: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4604645 B&O S1/S2 extended stock car link: http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo113392jpa.jpg
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