Topics

Qs Generated by a Shorpy Photo ...

Tony Thompson
 

Steve Wintner wrote:

I would hesitate to overdo it. I guess I would attempt building one up using styrene, cut into individual boards. My own attempts at that would inherently  have a bit of wiggle and warpage. Add a bit of paint, one board weathered more than it's neighbor, etc. See how that worked, then give it another shot.

    We can provide the variation in color and texture pretty easily. I have written a couple of blog posts about how I do so. If you're interested, here are a couple of links:



Tony Thompson



Nelson Moyer
 

Plano offers etched metal running board brackets that you may wish to check out.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 7:18 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Qs Generated by a Shorpy Photo ...

 

Hi Jim – Tichy makes running board supports.  Part 3081.

 

Rob Kirkham

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 4:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Qs Generated by a Shorpy Photo ...

 

Hi,

  So a -major- part of my question is/was "is there a way to get the running 
boards of our models to look like these?".  I'm thinking that maybe you
start by eliminating the plastic version, use actual wood that has been
properly dimensioned (probably have to sand to correct thickness?), and
then 'process' it to warp it like these have warped.  Might have to start
with stock pieces that are much longer than scale, get them to 'wiggle'
then cut to length.  Finally - mix them up so you don't get a lot of boards
that were out of the same piece on the same car.
  Doing the running board supports between the car top and the boards
will be a major PITA (meaning lots of work) since, at least as far as I
know, there aren't any good options for those in either wood or plastic.
Perhaps this is a candidate for 3D printing?
                                                                                  - Jim in Burlington

steve_wintner
 

I would hesitate to overdo it. I guess I would attempt building one up using styrene, cut into individual boards. My own attempts at that would inherently  have a bit of wiggle and warpage. Add a bit of paint, one board weathered more than it's neighbor, etc. See how that worked, then give it another shot.

Have fun
Steve


Robert kirkham
 

Hi Jim – Tichy makes running board supports.  Part 3081.

 

Rob Kirkham

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 4:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Qs Generated by a Shorpy Photo ...

 

Hi,

  So a -major- part of my question is/was "is there a way to get the running 
boards of our models to look like these?".  I'm thinking that maybe you
start by eliminating the plastic version, use actual wood that has been
properly dimensioned (probably have to sand to correct thickness?), and
then 'process' it to warp it like these have warped.  Might have to start
with stock pieces that are much longer than scale, get them to 'wiggle'
then cut to length.  Finally - mix them up so you don't get a lot of boards
that were out of the same piece on the same car.
  Doing the running board supports between the car top and the boards
will be a major PITA (meaning lots of work) since, at least as far as I
know, there aren't any good options for those in either wood or plastic.
Perhaps this is a candidate for 3D printing?
                                                                                  - Jim in Burlington

Jim Betz
 


  ... suggestions for my word "process" in the prior?

  I'm speculating that maybe wetting the wood and then sandwiching
it between two pieces of glass to eliminate vertical warping ...

  Ideas for wetting other than water or "wet water"?
                                                                                      - Jim

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  So a -major- part of my question is/was "is there a way to get the running 
boards of our models to look like these?".  I'm thinking that maybe you
start by eliminating the plastic version, use actual wood that has been
properly dimensioned (probably have to sand to correct thickness?), and
then 'process' it to warp it like these have warped.  Might have to start
with stock pieces that are much longer than scale, get them to 'wiggle'
then cut to length.  Finally - mix them up so you don't get a lot of boards
that were out of the same piece on the same car.
  Doing the running board supports between the car top and the boards
will be a major PITA (meaning lots of work) since, at least as far as I
know, there aren't any good options for those in either wood or plastic.
Perhaps this is a candidate for 3D printing?
                                                                                  - Jim in Burlington

Jim Betz
 

Rufus,
  You may be right - but in one version of the photo that I viewed I felt
that I was seeing both N and P and that they were properly spaced.  - Jim
Not saying I'm right and you are wrong.

Jim Betz
 

Ed,
  That car you are saying is NP has a metal roof - if I'm seeing it right. - Jim

Jim Betz
 

Garth,
  I was thinking more of modifications to the track than to the cars ... Jim

David Soderblom
 

Exquisite, isn’t it?  All those directions in the boards and even different textures.  That’s why we model those freight cars, so that even a fairly casual viewer can see distinctive differences.  It really shouldn’t require advanced study to appreciate not-at-all-subtle distinctions between these cars, and I don't just mean the livery and heralds.

Even so, there’s pretty much height uniformity here.  Some years back in MM I remember the editor pointing out the very noticeable height differences within a post-WWII consist.  That greatly diminished with time, as all approached 10-6 IH.



David Soderblom,
Baltimore MD USA





spsalso
 

The car two cars back is likely NP, account of the curved roof.

The car between has an interesting roof.  Hutchins dry lading, perhaps?

The first and second  plank (from the left) on the foreground car have a similar knot arrangement, implying they were adjacent cuts from the log.  FWIW.



Ed

Edward Sutorik

Bob Webber
 

I would take note of age, car owner, car outline. The car with the narrower running boards is also a few inches narrower than the others...when you mix 36', 40' 50' etc. in the same train, when you have varying degrees of car widths too due either construction era or home road (look at a X29 vs the same era Western car), when the older a car is, the drier (usually) the boards get, the more "character" is evinced.

The real issue is though not only does the physics not scale as Dennis noted, but the boards width and warping isn't apt to scale (as much). Looking at the boards, some are warping one way, other another - one reason the drawings show specific grain patterns for specific boards in specific places/ The drawings don't just show the base construct, but there is far more to them - the scrap diagrams and the wood grains are critical in learning why a car was built in a specific way - and why and how they age. This is not unlike determining crown and laying the wood - or instilling a crown (by saw or cast) such that the load bears "on top of" the crown.

Most running boards on HO models are one piece - or three. Rarely do people make the effort of actually using three pieces of wood - in the proper sequence and grain pattern . If you are going to speak of variety in terms of the roof though, that's the granularity you are going to have to get to. Note that if you do as some of us did 40 years ago - scribing then shaving the inside of the "boards" to duplicate this (in our heads, anyway) - you end up with ...shaved plastic looking like ...nothing natural.

If you look at the photo, the 2d, 5th & 7th cars are all narrower - and have narrower running boards. When built, they were likely in proportion and within the standards. As cars got wider, the boards got wider. The saddles got wider - think the opposite of airline seat evolution. Too...check out the 7th & 8th cars - those appear to be much shorter, much narrower cars. The photo makes it look like that's 1 car - but check the brake staffs. So...you are looking at two sets of boards - not one that is widely varied. Looking at roofs is a fine thing - regardless. But in context it may make more sense.

At 12:12 PM 9/15/2019, you wrote:
Hi,

Recent post to another group

<https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-8c15269a.preview.jpg>https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-8c15269a.preview.jpg

On the question of the width of the running boards - on the first -full- car you
can just make out the "N. P." ... so I'm wondering if different RRs had different
specs for their running boards? Or is that tied to the mfgr of the car(s)? (Note
that the 2 cars on either side of the 1st full car have narrower boards.)

----------
Bob Webber

Rufus Cone
 

Two points

The roof on the mentioned car does not have the expected NP features (roof not curved and cast fittings clamping the panel joints are absent at the edges).  From the LOC tif version of the image, I do not "see" the NP initials myself, even after adjustment.  Perhaps the N is the second letter in the reporting mark - suggesting perhaps GN, given the location of the photograph.

To find the Library of Congress version of a Shorpy photo such as this, copy the numerical portion of the Shorpy link 8c15269a into your search engine.  With Google it is the first item to come up.

https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-8c15269a.preview.jpg

...- on the first -full- car you
can just make out the "N. P." ...
--

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 12:15 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Jim,

I have never heard of any sort of device to make cars rock, though some do due to inexpert assembly via loose truck screws.
The big problem with rocking model cars is that physics doesn't scale. Prototype cars rock at a natural frequency of maybe once or twice a minute, guessing here, but it's a slow ponderous motion. Model car with loose truck screws jitter at a frequency of maybe once or twice a SECOND, which looks maniac, not ponderous at all. the effect is just nervous jitters.

Dennis Storzek

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Jim,

I have never heard of any sort of device to make cars rock, though some do due to inexpert assembly via loose truck screws.

There was a device that made cars coast when kicked loose by a switcher available about 30 years ago. It essentially a special underframe/floor with a large flywheel with a rubber band to a sheave on one of the car axles, and I believe developed by John Allen. I had a couple of these and they didn't work very well; the drag in a train was considerable, there was reduced turning radius for the truck, and control in those days usually wasn't fine enough for a switcher to properly kick the car. Eventually these underframes went away with my Athearn blue box cars.

On one of my portable layouts I had a spur that was sunk into the baseboard so the ties were nearly covered in dirt and a lot of Woodland Scenics foam. I had pounded on the track a bit with a hammer to make the rails uneven (code 70 Lambert track), and my cars did sway somewhat. I never had any derailment problems. It was an interesting experiment, and sinking the track is something I plan for my next layout. One spur will be sunk so the rails are embedded in street paving with cobbles or stone setts, and the other will essentially be in dirt as the track goes into a small iron works yard. I plan to use a piece of Lambert guard rail flex track for these. I'm not going to bang on the rails though.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/15/2019 1:12 PM, Jim Betz wrote:
Hi,

  Recent post to another group

  https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-8c15269a.preview.jpg

brings up the question of "how does one achieve the variety of the roof details
that is evident in this picture?" ... as in are there any products out there that
provide the minor variations such as the roof walks (both how wide the boards
are and the fact that many boards are not straight/true).  Another detail is the
way the L-grabs have verticals that are 'truly vertical' at the corner.  Etc., etc.
etc.  
  On the question of the width of the running boards - on the first -full- car you
can just make out the "N. P." ... so I'm wondering if different RRs had different
specs for their running boards?  Or is that tied to the mfgr of the car(s)? (Note
that the 2 cars on either side of the 1st full car have narrower boards.)

  Also note that the string of cars shows that almost every other car is canted
a different direction (left/right) ... which indicates that the cars were rocking
and rolling their way into that curve.  I've -never- seen a layout that achieves
this particular effect ... that didn't also have a lot of "layout induced derailments".
What seems to be needed to be done to produce this would be very small
height shims one one side and then the other ... say about a car length or
so for each direction.  Yes?  Have you ever seen this produced in a way
that makes the cars rock back and forth - only slightly but enough so if you
look for it you notice it?
                                                      - Jim B. in Burlington, Wa.
               

Eric Hansmann
 

The original is available to download in several sizes through the Library of Congress website at this link.

https://www.loc.gov/item/2017807305/

 

Nearly all of the Shorpy images are in the Library of Congress holdings.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Woods
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 1:24 PM
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Qs Generated by a Shorpy Photo ...

 

Hi Folks

If you encounter a Shorpy preview like this, all you have to do is copy and paste the link into your web browser, then delete the '.preview' part from the link before hitting enter; this will send you to the high-res version instead.

Regards
Paul

 

 

 

---- On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 05:14:22 +1200 Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote ----

 

  ... just noticed that you will have to go to the Shorpy site to get the
full details I've posted questions about ... the attached version is
some kind of 'preview' that doesn't expand when clicked on from
this group ... sorry.
                                                                     - Jim B.

 

 

 

 

Paul Woods
 

Hi Folks

If you encounter a Shorpy preview like this, all you have to do is copy and paste the link into your web browser, then delete the '.preview' part from the link before hitting enter; this will send you to the high-res version instead.

Regards
Paul



---- On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 05:14:22 +1200 Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote ----

  ... just noticed that you will have to go to the Shorpy site to get the
full details I've posted questions about ... the attached version is
some kind of 'preview' that doesn't expand when clicked on from
this group ... sorry.
                                                                     - Jim B.





Jim Betz
 

  ... just noticed that you will have to go to the Shorpy site to get the
full details I've posted questions about ... the attached version is
some kind of 'preview' that doesn't expand when clicked on from
this group ... sorry.
                                                                     - Jim B.

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  Recent post to another group

  https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-8c15269a.preview.jpg

brings up the question of "how does one achieve the variety of the roof details
that is evident in this picture?" ... as in are there any products out there that
provide the minor variations such as the roof walks (both how wide the boards
are and the fact that many boards are not straight/true).  Another detail is the
way the L-grabs have verticals that are 'truly vertical' at the corner.  Etc., etc.
etc.  
  On the question of the width of the running boards - on the first -full- car you
can just make out the "N. P." ... so I'm wondering if different RRs had different
specs for their running boards?  Or is that tied to the mfgr of the car(s)? (Note
that the 2 cars on either side of the 1st full car have narrower boards.)

  Also note that the string of cars shows that almost every other car is canted
a different direction (left/right) ... which indicates that the cars were rocking
and rolling their way into that curve.  I've -never- seen a layout that achieves
this particular effect ... that didn't also have a lot of "layout induced derailments".
What seems to be needed to be done to produce this would be very small
height shims one one side and then the other ... say about a car length or
so for each direction.  Yes?  Have you ever seen this produced in a way
that makes the cars rock back and forth - only slightly but enough so if you
look for it you notice it?
                                                      - Jim B. in Burlington, Wa.