Topics

covered hopper grays take 2

Tim O'Connor
 

It's not muddy, but the sunlight (thousands of candle power) versus interior lights makes a
huge difference in the color we perceive. I took photos of a box car I painted a fairly dark
"tuscan oxide red" under bright lights and I was amazed how the car appeared under those
conditions - not at all how it appears when viewing it with normal indoor lighting.

On 11/7/2019 12:57 PM, Jim Mischke wrote:

I'd like to clarify or muddy the B&O gray on covered hoppers.

I have a B&O gray paint chip from the Mt. Clare drift card, and another intrepid B&O society member harvested a paint chip from a prototype N-43 PS-2 covered hopper from a spot where the sun don't shine.   They matched, but we were alarmed that this authentic B&O gray was so dark.   Unacceptable on a B&O model in a dim basement.

When the B&OHS sponsored a Kadee B&O PS-2 covered hopper project (600 cars, long sold out, no web images found today), I made a conscious decision to specify one grade of gray lighter.   Everybody loved it.  Even more arbitrary, Kadee only produces their gray covered hoppers in three shades: light, medium and dark, no matter what anybody's prototype gray paint chip says.   Spring Mills Valley produced their B&O N-34 wagontop covered hopper with its Kadee B&O PS-2 model predecessor in mind.   Both products are effective and popular.  Not the B&O gray.

I can hop and stomp around about accurate railroad colors with the best of them.  Yet there are times when an color offset is called for, in light of basement illumination, pun intended. We seek a believable illusion, sometimes prototype colors fall short.   Black, white, and gray are particularly vulnerable to ambient light and scale effects.


Jim Mischke
a B&O freight car go-to guy
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Tony Thompson
 

Jim Mischke wrote:

I can hop and stomp around about accurate railroad colors with the best of them.  Yet there are times when an color offset is called for, in light of basement illumination, pun intended.  We seek a believable illusion, sometimes prototype colors fall short.   Black, white, and gray are particularly vulnerable to ambient light and scale effects.

    Full agreement, Jim. My own bugaboo is Pullman Green or SP-UP Dark Olive Green. In indoor layout conditions, they approach black. I have experimented with ways to lighten them so the models will look like prototype photos taken in sunlight. Not sure I'm succeeding, so far.

Tony Thompson



Brian Carlson
 

Kadee has them under discontinued custom cars. 

https://www.kadee.com/custom-cars-c-335_340_347/


Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:58 PM, Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:



I'd like to clarify or muddy the B&O gray on covered hoppers.

I have a B&O gray paint chip from the Mt. Clare drift card, and another intrepid B&O society member harvested a paint chip from a prototype N-43 PS-2 covered hopper from a spot where the sun don't shine.   They matched, but we were alarmed that this authentic B&O gray was so dark.   Unacceptable on a B&O model in a dim basement.

When the B&OHS sponsored a Kadee B&O PS-2 covered hopper project (600 cars, long sold out, no web images found today), I made a conscious decision to specify one grade of gray lighter.   Everybody loved it.  Even more arbitrary, Kadee only produces their gray covered hoppers in three shades: light, medium and dark, no matter what anybody's prototype gray paint chip says.   Spring Mills Valley produced their B&O N-34 wagontop covered hopper with its Kadee B&O PS-2 model predecessor in mind.   Both products are effective and popular.   Not the B&O gray.

I can hop and stomp around about accurate railroad colors with the best of them.  Yet there are times when an color offset is called for, in light of basement illumination, pun intended.  We seek a believable illusion, sometimes prototype colors fall short.   Black, white, and gray are particularly vulnerable to ambient light and scale effects.


Jim Mischke
a B&O freight car go-to guy











Jim Mischke
 



I'd like to clarify or muddy the B&O gray on covered hoppers.

I have a B&O gray paint chip from the Mt. Clare drift card, and another intrepid B&O society member harvested a paint chip from a prototype N-43 PS-2 covered hopper from a spot where the sun don't shine.   They matched, but we were alarmed that this authentic B&O gray was so dark.   Unacceptable on a B&O model in a dim basement.

When the B&OHS sponsored a Kadee B&O PS-2 covered hopper project (600 cars, long sold out, no web images found today), I made a conscious decision to specify one grade of gray lighter.   Everybody loved it.  Even more arbitrary, Kadee only produces their gray covered hoppers in three shades: light, medium and dark, no matter what anybody's prototype gray paint chip says.   Spring Mills Valley produced their B&O N-34 wagontop covered hopper with its Kadee B&O PS-2 model predecessor in mind.   Both products are effective and popular.   Not the B&O gray.

I can hop and stomp around about accurate railroad colors with the best of them.  Yet there are times when an color offset is called for, in light of basement illumination, pun intended.  We seek a believable illusion, sometimes prototype colors fall short.   Black, white, and gray are particularly vulnerable to ambient light and scale effects.


Jim Mischke
a B&O freight car go-to guy











Greg Martin
 

I agree with Jim, this the color match recommended to the PRRT&HS for the Paint committee.

I still have a bottle or two left.

Greg Martin


Why Yes I have done some modeling...

Sent from AOL Desktop

In a message dated 9/16/2019 2:50:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, jekuban@... writes:

I have used a gray called SP Lettering Gray, available from more thane one model paint supplier. This is a mid-tone gray that looks good under a weathering coat of cement color.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 

Drew M.
 

I use Vallejo colors. Attached are the two colors I mix to achieve a grey for covered hoppers. I usually do two drops of white to one of grey with a little tweaking.

Drew in Philly

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp

On Sep 17, 2019, at 09:05, Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...> wrote:
Group,

Thank you to everybody for the replies.  I was not aware of the RMJ article.  Thanks also to Ed Hawkins for the scans of the actual color chips and others for their insight into the problems of the shades of gray and the difficulty into scaling them to models.

There are plenty of model paint grays and I appreciate the responses of actual uses to help narrow down the field.  Please keep them coming.

Eric Mumper

Eric Mumper
 

Group,

Thank you to everybody for the replies.  I was not aware of the RMJ article.  Thanks also to Ed Hawkins for the scans of the actual color chips and others for their insight into the problems of the shades of gray and the difficulty into scaling them to models.

There are plenty of model paint grays and I appreciate the responses of actual uses to help narrow down the field.  Please keep them coming.

Eric Mumper

Eric Hansmann
 

This can be viewed online at the Train Life site.

http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1991_10/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 5:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] covered hopper grays take 2

 

If you can, get a copy of the October 1991 Railmodel Journal. The esteemed author, beginning on page 10, described mixes he developed for various prototypes. While some of the paints he used are no longer available, the colors and mixes should point down the right track.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 10:12 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] covered hopper grays take 2

Back in the last century when I was constructing a mid-50s seaport layout, I painted a good number of covered hoppers to serve the cement translating facility at the port. My choice of light grays varied as to what was closest at hand. Sometimes Scalecoat. Sometimes Scalecoat II, Sometimes Folquil. The slight variety of grays when weathered were quite acceptable. 

 

Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 



On Sep 16, 2019, at 9:03 AM, Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...> wrote:

 

Group,

The last email about this subject did not provide a lot of responses which I kind of figured on as it is really obscure.

Let me try this another way:  If you have painted a covered hopper gray from the steam era, please respond with what paint you used and the model it was used on.  Any other information included with the response would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Eric Mumper
eric.mumper@...

 

Richard Townsend
 

If you can, get a copy of the October 1991 Railmodel Journal. The esteemed author, beginning on page 10, described mixes he developed for various prototypes. While some of the paints he used are no longer available, the colors and mixes should point down the right track.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 10:12 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] covered hopper grays take 2

Back in the last century when I was constructing a mid-50s seaport layout, I painted a good number of covered hoppers to serve the cement translating facility at the port. My choice of light grays varied as to what was closest at hand. Sometimes Scalecoat. Sometimes Scalecoat II, Sometimes Folquil. The slight variety of grays when weathered were quite acceptable. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Sep 16, 2019, at 9:03 AM, Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...> wrote:

Group,

The last email about this subject did not provide a lot of responses which I kind of figured on as it is really obscure.

Let me try this another way:  If you have painted a covered hopper gray from the steam era, please respond with what paint you used and the model it was used on.  Any other information included with the response would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Eric Mumper
eric.mumper@...

James E Kubanick
 

I have used a gray called SP Lettering Gray, available from more thane one model paint supplier. This is a mid-tone gray that looks good under a weathering coat of cement color.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

On Monday, September 16, 2019, 2:51:56 PM EDT, dale florence via Groups.Io <dwwesley@...> wrote:


I use Spring Mills Depot Gray from the B&O Covered hopper as my base.

Dale Florence










On Monday, September 16, 2019, 02:29:33 PM EDT, Rick Jesionowski via Groups.Io <dti406@...> wrote:


I used to use Floquil Gray Primer for my covered hoppers, now I alternate between Scalecoat II UP Covered Hopper Gray and Maintenance of Way Gray.

Rick Jeswionowski

dale florence <dwwesley@...>
 

I use Spring Mills Depot Gray from the B&O Covered hopper as my base.

Dale Florence










On Monday, September 16, 2019, 02:29:33 PM EDT, Rick Jesionowski via Groups.Io <dti406@...> wrote:


I used to use Floquil Gray Primer for my covered hoppers, now I alternate between Scalecoat II UP Covered Hopper Gray and Maintenance of Way Gray.

Rick Jeswionowski

Rick Jesionowski
 

I used to use Floquil Gray Primer for my covered hoppers, now I alternate between Scalecoat II UP Covered Hopper Gray and Maintenance of Way Gray.

Rick Jeswionowski

Bill Keene
 

Back in the last century when I was constructing a mid-50s seaport layout, I painted a good number of covered hoppers to serve the cement translating facility at the port. My choice of light grays varied as to what was closest at hand. Sometimes Scalecoat. Sometimes Scalecoat II, Sometimes Folquil. The slight variety of grays when weathered were quite acceptable. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Sep 16, 2019, at 9:03 AM, Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...> wrote:

Group,

The last email about this subject did not provide a lot of responses which I kind of figured on as it is really obscure.

Let me try this another way:  If you have painted a covered hopper gray from the steam era, please respond with what paint you used and the model it was used on.  Any other information included with the response would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Eric Mumper
eric.mumper@...

O Fenton Wells
 

I like SCII primer, then gloss
Fenton

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 12:03 PM Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...> wrote:
Group,

The last email about this subject did not provide a lot of responses which I kind of figured on as it is really obscure.

Let me try this another way:  If you have painted a covered hopper gray from the steam era, please respond with what paint you used and the model it was used on.  Any other information included with the response would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Eric Mumper
eric.mumper@...



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Eric Mumper
 

Group,

The last email about this subject did not provide a lot of responses which I kind of figured on as it is really obscure.

Let me try this another way:  If you have painted a covered hopper gray from the steam era, please respond with what paint you used and the model it was used on.  Any other information included with the response would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Eric Mumper
eric.mumper@...