Topics

Round roof double door boxcar

leakinmywaders
 

Missed my sign-off, apologies.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT 

leakinmywaders
 

To put a finer point on the history of the DT&-I 50-ft round roof cars leased to NP,  A.A. Morrison acquired 110 of them about 1960, and rebuilt them to NP specifications for lumber service, and leased them to that road as NP 39500-39609.  I think the only outward change was a very slightly deeper side sill extension under the door openings.  Even wood running boards were retained. For those interested, Matt Herson and I researched the history of all three classes of round roof steel cars leased to NP, and published details in the NPRHA Mainstreeter, Vol. 29, No. 2, Summer 2010. 

Randy Hammill
 

I have a couple of the Nickel Plate Products brass ones that I will redetail with Bowser parts. The floor casting fits nicely, and the doors are better as well.

Randy 
--

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

YES!  Subclasses matter 😉  The DT&I cars were clones of the PRR X31B.  They looked nothing  like a PRR X31!  Well, ok, maybe they did sort of resemble them, but to those of us who care, there were clear and obvious differences. The X31B (and the DT&I cars) had the latter roof, which had a different profile, with a flat center section and which joined flush with the side walls of the car, as opposed to the slightly peaked roof and inset eaves of the X31/X31A. The end ladders were 20" wide as opposed to the earlier (X31, X31A) 16 1/4" wide ladders. The upper end grab iron was symmetric as opposed to the asymmetric drop grab iron on the X31/X31A as well.

RP Cyc 22 is an excellent reference on the PRR cars and RP Cyc 23 covers the non-PRR cars.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 8:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Round roof double door boxcar
 
Is there a difference between the PRR X31  and the DT& I car?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Is there a difference between the PRR X31  and the DT& I car?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

Robert Allan
 

Very nice.photo. I recently purchased the ex-MDC 50' outside braced car it really looks pretty good surrounded by other cars. I have an X31 on the bench with intentions to do some upgrades.

Bob Allan

Robert Allan
 

Do you have a photo Tony? I've been staring at a kit for a couple of months thinking about how far I should go.

Bob Allan

Bill Welch
 

With patterns by Steve Funaro Central Hobby Supply offered the X31 and X32 but as with Sunshine when Bowser offered them in styrene their sales plummeted and they were dropped. I have built one of my X32 kits for N&W and still in my stash is one destined as a Virginian. When F&C closed it out I stroked Steve and he made a few side/end/roof/underframe casting for me that will get built either for PRR or N&W.

I buiit both Sunshine SD and DD X31 years ago—patterns also by Funaro—and in the last year or so picked up the raised roof version in Gray resin no less. I was never really sure when DT&I introduced their "Compass" scheme but thought what the heck, I did one of the Sunshine kits in that scheme with Champ decals. Still not sure if it really hits my October 1955 modeling date but have abandoned being completely date accurate but with that scheme I think I am very close. The Dreadnaught end pattern is not the best but it will do okay. I have not problem working with resin and all of the kits went together w/o a hitch.

Then enthused by Bruce Smith's X31 clinic at CCB 2019 I bought some undec. Bowser kits. The body is very well tooled despite cast on ladders and grabs. The doors are very well done too I think.

Bill Welch

anthony wagner
 

Ron, I too have built PRR X-31s from Bowser kits and the results are actually pretty decent. Not contest quality but quite presentible. The hardest part of redetailing these cars is removing the hand brake rod below the brake step and the diagonal supports for it. Carving off the grab irons with a chisel blade was relatively easy and the roof walk (pardon me - running board) diagonal supports can be clipped off with a side cutter such as Xuron's and smoothed down with a chisel blade. They get replaced with 1x2 Evergreen strip styrene as do the supports under the brake step. For replacing the grab irons I use left over Red Caboose or Intermountain cast grabs from building PRR X-29s. There are enough spares so that you can replace the carved off ones with them.Before installing remove the tiny posts cast on the backs to fit in holes in the Red Caboose cars. The corner roof grabs are Tichy and for the corner support I use a small length of 1x3" styrene whitch when the glue is fully dry can be trimmed with a #11 blade. Once painted it is unnoticeable from 2*3 feet away. The drop grab over the roof indentation under the lateral walks is also Tichy. I also used A Tichy straight grab to replace the cast on grabs in the upper left corner of each end. Polyscale boxcar red is a close match for touching up the wire and styrene additions with a brush. These cars were weathered during their service lives unless they had just come from a complete repaint and any weathering from light to heavy is appropriate. Hope this helps. Tony Wagner 

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 12:29:44 PM CDT, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


So a bigger part of this question is about models of round roof boxcars.  I'm excluding the wagon-top, and the Seaboard cars (a Sunshine kit for one of those is coming up soon on my build list), just the genuine inset- and flush-roof styles.

I'm not fond of the Bowser cars, since I tried carving the ladders off of one a few years ago and got halfway through before I gave up.  But I do have several of the Bowser kits still.

Then there's the brass ones that were ok for their time, but are lacking in detail.  I believe those were the Trains inc. (?)  I have one of those, which I'd rather sell than paint, but they made most of the major PRR classes and variants.

The Sunshine kits come up on eBay from time to time.  They're the 10.x series, so among the earlier kits.  I suspect sales of these went through the floor after the Bowser kits were announded, which could be why they come up relatively often for sale.  I would build one or more of these if I thought they were relatively easy to build -- as they should be, since in my opinion the weakest point of early Sunshine kits was the roof, and these appear to have a one-piece roof based on the kit photos in the eBay offerings.  It appears that Sunshine never did an X32.

So if you were me, and only needed a couple of round roof cars, whether PRR or not, which one(s) would you recommend?  Modeling a secondary main line in Kansas, 1960.

Ron Merrick

spsalso
 

You might also consider the old Athearn metal 40' and 50' cars.

No cast on ladders and grabs, there!  My main gripe with them is they don't have the dimple in the roof corner for the grab located there.  I occasionally think of making a form to put inside so I can hammer it in.  But the thought soon passes.



Ed

Edward Sutorik

O Fenton Wells
 

Todd, Your photos tell a lot, the cars look great and I love the mix of colors in the photo.  Very realistic.
Fenton

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:00 PM Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Ron,

I convinced myself several years ago that not all of the freight cars on my layout need to be detailed to the nth degree, so I do have a few Accurail, MDC and Bowser cars that are fairly accurate to a prototype.  I have weathered these to the point where it is hard to discern the level of detail, so they are acceptable in most people's view.  I have weathered several Bowser 40ft and 50ft round roof boxcars this way, and here is a photo of a Bowser PRR and an MDC/Rounhouse MP 50ft DD boxcar weathered up.

I have also found that, when I'm deep into an operating session, I pay almost no attention to the detailing on the cars I'm handling, since I'm absorbed almost completely in my role in the op session and getting cars moved. The super detail is most valuable when photographing scenes on the layout or individual cars.

Todd Sullivan.



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Ron,

I convinced myself several years ago that not all of the freight cars on my layout need to be detailed to the nth degree, so I do have a few Accurail, MDC and Bowser cars that are fairly accurate to a prototype.  I have weathered these to the point where it is hard to discern the level of detail, so they are acceptable in most people's view.  I have weathered several Bowser 40ft and 50ft round roof boxcars this way, and here is a photo of a Bowser PRR and an MDC/Rounhouse MP 50ft DD boxcar weathered up.

I have also found that, when I'm deep into an operating session, I pay almost no attention to the detailing on the cars I'm handling, since I'm absorbed almost completely in my role in the op session and getting cars moved. The super detail is most valuable when photographing scenes on the layout or individual cars.

Todd Sullivan.

mopacfirst
 

So a bigger part of this question is about models of round roof boxcars.  I'm excluding the wagon-top, and the Seaboard cars (a Sunshine kit for one of those is coming up soon on my build list), just the genuine inset- and flush-roof styles.

I'm not fond of the Bowser cars, since I tried carving the ladders off of one a few years ago and got halfway through before I gave up.  But I do have several of the Bowser kits still.

Then there's the brass ones that were ok for their time, but are lacking in detail.  I believe those were the Trains inc. (?)  I have one of those, which I'd rather sell than paint, but they made most of the major PRR classes and variants.

The Sunshine kits come up on eBay from time to time.  They're the 10.x series, so among the earlier kits.  I suspect sales of these went through the floor after the Bowser kits were announded, which could be why they come up relatively often for sale.  I would build one or more of these if I thought they were relatively easy to build -- as they should be, since in my opinion the weakest point of early Sunshine kits was the roof, and these appear to have a one-piece roof based on the kit photos in the eBay offerings.  It appears that Sunshine never did an X32.

So if you were me, and only needed a couple of round roof cars, whether PRR or not, which one(s) would you recommend?  Modeling a secondary main line in Kansas, 1960.

Ron Merrick

vapeurchapelon
 

Bruce,
 
it seems that I should take some more english lessons. Understood it just the other way round - that NP leased the cars to DT&I in 1961...
Many thanks for clarification, and again - I apologize.
Plus, I have lots of trouble at the job these days - this may "contribute".
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. September 2019 um 16:23 Uhr
Von: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...>
An: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Round roof double door boxcar
Johannes,
 
Why would it we incorrect? DT&I built these cars in the 1930s and leased them to the NP in 1961. So they should most assuredly be present on the DT&I circa 1953.
 
 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 
 

On Sep 18, 2019, at 9:18 AM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:
 
Bruce,
 
you are entirely correct. I apologize. I even read and heard of the term radial roof in combination with the NP truss rod car...
Side note, since you mentioned it: -I, too have such a ROUND roof steel double door box car and intended to paint it for DT&I - but this would be wrong in regard to "my" time frame up to 1953?
 
Thanks and greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

Bruce Smith
 

Johannes,

Why would it we incorrect? DT&I built these cars in the 1930s and leased them to the NP in 1961. So they should most assuredly be present on the DT&I circa 1953.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Sep 18, 2019, at 9:18 AM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:

Bruce,
 
you are entirely correct. I apologize. I even read and heard of the term radial roof in combination with the NP truss rod car...
Side note, since you mentioned it: -I, too have such a ROUND roof steel double door box car and intended to paint it for DT&I - but this would be wrong in regard to "my" time frame up to 1953?
 
Thanks and greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

vapeurchapelon
 

Bruce,
 
you are entirely correct. I apologize. I even read and heard of the term radial roof in combination with the NP truss rod car...
Side note, since you mentioned it: -I, too have such a ROUND roof steel double door box car and intended to paint it for DT&I - but this would be wrong in regard to "my" time frame up to 1953?
 
Thanks and greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. September 2019 um 15:00 Uhr
Von: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...>
An: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Round roof double door boxcar
Johannes,
 
I believe that you are tripping over some vocabulary.
 
Round roof - this metal roof section was developed in the 1930s and applied to new steel boxcars that were built in that era to maximize clearance fits. The biggest user was the PRR, as witnessed by their X31, X32 AND X33 series cars. The PRR did apply a few to older cars, such as the X23, to generate the X23B. The DT&I built “clones” of the PRR’s X31B and the Northern Pacific will lease 335 DT&I 40’ dd flush roof cars circa 1961, one year in the future for this list.
 
Radial roof - this roof section, first built in wood and then metal, describes a gentle arc and was used for many cars, from many roads, beginning in the very early 20th century (or maybe even much earlier… not my area of knowledge). This was a very common roof style on the Northern Pacific and is almost certainly the roof style that you are referring to on this truss rod car (not “round roof”) and definitely NOT referring to the ALL STEEL CAR described in the post to which you were responding.
 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 
 

On Sep 18, 2019, at 7:47 AM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:
 
Hello Ron,
 
W&R did a very nice NP prototype 40' DS truss rod box car with round roof.
But no other version of the car you mentioned, or anything close to that.
 
Greeetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. September 2019 um 14:39 Uhr
Von: "mopacfirst" <ron.merrick@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Round roof double door boxcar
Following up on the previous thread, I have a W&R brass model of this car, the flush roof 40' double door box.  I saw recently that there are a few custom painted versions on eBay, all painted NP.  I think W&R did a lot of Pacific Northwest stuff, the way Overland did UP stuff, so this makes sense.

My question is, did W&R ever do any other round roof versions? 

Ron Merrick

Bruce Smith
 

Johannes,

I believe that you are tripping over some vocabulary.

Round roof - this metal roof section was developed in the 1930s and applied to new steel boxcars that were built in that era to maximize clearance fits. The biggest user was the PRR, as witnessed by their X31, X32 AND X33 series cars. The PRR did apply a few to older cars, such as the X23, to generate the X23B. The DT&I built “clones” of the PRR’s X31B and the Northern Pacific will lease 335 DT&I 40’ dd flush roof cars circa 1961, one year in the future for this list.

Radial roof - this roof section, first built in wood and then metal, describes a gentle arc and was used for many cars, from many roads, beginning in the very early 20th century (or maybe even much earlier… not my area of knowledge). This was a very common roof style on the Northern Pacific and is almost certainly the roof style that you are referring to on this truss rod car (not “round roof”) and definitely NOT referring to the ALL STEEL CAR described in the post to which you were responding.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Sep 18, 2019, at 7:47 AM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:

Hello Ron,
 
W&R did a very nice NP prototype 40' DS truss rod box car with round roof.
But no other version of the car you mentioned, or anything close to that.
 
Greeetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. September 2019 um 14:39 Uhr
Von: "mopacfirst" <ron.merrick@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Round roof double door boxcar
Following up on the previous thread, I have a W&R brass model of this car, the flush roof 40' double door box.  I saw recently that there are a few custom painted versions on eBay, all painted NP.  I think W&R did a lot of Pacific Northwest stuff, the way Overland did UP stuff, so this makes sense.

My question is, did W&R ever do any other round roof versions? 

Ron Merrick

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Ron,
 
W&R did a very nice NP prototype 40' DS truss rod box car with round roof.
But no other version of the car you mentioned, or anything close to that.
 
Greeetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. September 2019 um 14:39 Uhr
Von: "mopacfirst" <ron.merrick@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Round roof double door boxcar
Following up on the previous thread, I have a W&R brass model of this car, the flush roof 40' double door box.  I saw recently that there are a few custom painted versions on eBay, all painted NP.  I think W&R did a lot of Pacific Northwest stuff, the way Overland did UP stuff, so this makes sense.

My question is, did W&R ever do any other round roof versions? 

Ron Merrick

mopacfirst
 

Following up on the previous thread, I have a W&R brass model of this car, the flush roof 40' double door box.  I saw recently that there are a few custom painted versions on eBay, all painted NP.  I think W&R did a lot of Pacific Northwest stuff, the way Overland did UP stuff, so this makes sense.

My question is, did W&R ever do any other round roof versions? 

Ron Merrick