Topics

Grace Tank Car


bn2204
 

G'Day Gents,

I'm always on the lookout for photos of steam era freight cars that will fit my August - September 1979 timeframe, and the other night, I came across this photo of a GYRX 168

https://www.pjv101.net/film_bw/pjv01602.htm
Photo #1489_040

To me, this appears to be a car with an ACF frame, and a third party tank. Southern Car & Foundry has a car that is very close to the tank car illustrated above, but is a replica of a tank car built by General American. 

http://southerncarandfoundry.com/product/gatx-1638-2-compartment-tank-kit/

With the exception of a few rivets, and ladders, the tank on the model is a near match to the tank illustrated in the photo of GYRX 168. The underframe is another matter, and is where I need the expertise of the folks on this list. Which ACF frame would best work for this car, or is it a frame from a different builder?

Thanks in advance,

Darrall Swift - Lagrange, Ohio
Modeling the BN/MILW in North Central Montana,  Great Falls to Shelby,  Circa: August-September 1979


David
 

The underframe is a typical ACF Type 27, as is the tank. The vertical rivet rows are for the internal bulkheads that separate the tank shell into two compartments.

David Thompson


bigfourroad
 

G'Day to you Darrail
I cannot tell you with certainty what under-frame was used on 168.  When I was much younger I was well acquainted with Stanly D. Grace the son of the founder of the John H. Grace Tank Co.  At the time I was in the banking business in Chicago doing investment banking business with railroads and their suppliers the JD Grace Company had several hundred "legacy" tank cars that were managed individually and lovingly by John's sons. The diligent management of the cars produced a good living for the family. To say they were frugal would be accurate but they were very prone to make changes to their cars in reaction to best practices and market developments. My bet would be either ACF or Union Tank Car components as the cars circulated in the Midwest and West to my recollection. Here is a link to one of the cars the family donated to the B&O RR Museum in the 1990's. You can see the long life and wholesale changes to the car that I noted above. http://www.borail.org/805.aspx
Chris Rooney


bn2204
 

Thanks David,

As a modeler modeling an era where stub sill tank cars are the norm, I'm not up to speed regarding the nomenclatures for the different type of frames associated with older tank cars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Type 27 underframe the underframe that comes with the Intermountain 8,000g/10,000g tank car kits?

Thanks,

Darrall Swift  - Lagrange,  Ohio 
Modeling the BN/MILW in North Central Montana,  Great Falls to Shelby,  Circa: August-September 1979


Bruce Smith
 

Darral,

Yes, the IM tank cars attempt to model the type 27 frame, although they do not do a great job. Probably the most glaring error are the flat side/end sills instead of the prototypes outward facing C-channel.

Regards,
Bruce


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of bn2204 via Groups.Io <doswift@...>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 6:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Grace Tank Car
 
Thanks David,

As a modeler modeling an era where stub sill tank cars are the norm, I'm not up to speed regarding the nomenclatures for the different type of frames associated with older tank cars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Type 27 underframe the underframe that comes with the Intermountain 8,000g/10,000g tank car kits?

Thanks,

Darrall Swift  - Lagrange,  Ohio 
Modeling the BN/MILW in North Central Montana,  Great Falls to Shelby,  Circa: August-September 1979


Tim O'Connor
 

There is no possibility the underframe on the GRYX 168 is an ACF Type 27.

Examine the enclosed photo and compare GRYX 168 to AESX 576.

And Darrall, yes, the Intermountain model represents a Type 27.

On 12/20/2019 7:13 AM, bn2204 via Groups.Io wrote:
Thanks David,

As a modeler modeling an era where stub sill tank cars are the norm, I'm not up to speed regarding the nomenclatures for the different type of frames associated with older tank cars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Type 27 underframe the underframe that comes with the Intermountain 8,000g/10,000g tank car kits?

Thanks,

Darrall Swift  - Lagrange,  Ohio
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Bruce Smith
 

Tim,

Why do you think AESX 756 is an AC&F type 27?  What features in that photo are you basing that on? Off the cuff I would have said AESX 756  was a UTL product…

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Dec 20, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


There is no possibility the underframe on the GRYX 168 is an ACF Type 27.

Examine the enclosed photo and compare GRYX 168 to AESX 576.

And Darrall, yes, the Intermountain model represents a Type 27.


On 12/20/2019 7:13 AM, bn2204 via Groups.Io wrote:
Thanks David,

As a modeler modeling an era where stub sill tank cars are the norm, I'm not up to speed regarding the nomenclatures for the different type of frames associated with older tank cars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Type 27 underframe the underframe that comes with the Intermountain 8,000g/10,000g tank car kits?

Thanks,

Darrall Swift  - Lagrange,  Ohio


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



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Jack Mullen
 

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 10:09 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Examine the enclosed photo and compare GRYX 168 to AESX 576.
Umm, AESX 576 doesn't appear to be a Type 27, (perhaps Pressed Steel Car Co ?), so what is the comparison supposed to demonstrate ?
What features do you see in the GRYX underframe that make it impossible to be a type 27?

Jack Mullen


John Hile
 

Hello All,

AESX 576 is a Pressed Steel Car Co. product.  Speedwitch Media's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Volume Two" has several photos for reference.

The underframe of GRYX 168 may represent the fact that ACF changed running board supports on "Type 27" underframes around 1940.  On "Type 27" prior to that date, they tend to be the tapered c-channels, hung on the side of the center sill (as shown on GRYX 168).  These are similar (if not identical to) "Type 21" supports.  After approx. 1940, the supports tend to be the angle-sections, which are triangulated to the top and bottom of the center sill.  I have a great degree of confidence in the 1940 date from the photo evidence, but am using the word "tend" because we all know there is probably an ACF "Type 27" lot out there somewhere that will contradict the assumption that all supports changed in 1940.

I'm glad to see this coming-up on the list, as a few of us briefly discussed this at the last St. Louis RPM.

Also, note the mis-matched trucks on GRYX 168.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA