main@RealSTMFC.groups.io | [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Gatwood, Elden J SAD

#169558

Ron;

Yes.  Those X29, and X28A that did not get chosen for the X29B, X29D, X29E, X29F, and X29G rebuilding campaigns were being set aside for scrapping, from the late fifties thru sixties, when they were scrapping tens of thousands of less-than-useful size or condition cars.  There were thousands of X28A and X29 in deadlines awaiting either rebuilding or the scrap heap.  Obviously condition was everything, but numbers overwhelmed need for standard 40' box cars.

Yards like Pitcairn and E Altoona were choked with deadline cars.  There are photos in some books, but it was nothing like in-person.

All these choices led to the PRR freight car shortage of the early sixties.

An X28A in SK would have been extremely unusual.

Elden Gatwood

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron, I'm guessing but I think advanced age and inadequate cubic and weight capacity doomed these cars. By the late 50s 50 foot box cars were becoming the norm, often with 70 ton capacity, so older cars were disposed of as soon as they could be economically replaced. Also, though I'm not sure when, the AAR changed the longevity rule from 50 to 40 years but that also must have had an impact.Tony 

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 3:08:21 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@fluor.com> wrote: 

Thanks for all the really specific replies.  I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all.  I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C.  (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.)  And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A.  I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it.  I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

Mont Switzer

#169559

During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business.  While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area.  It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills.  I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while.  The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@switzertc.com
(765) 836-2914

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD 
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 7:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron;

Yes.  Those X29, and X28A that did not get chosen for the X29B, X29D, X29E, X29F, and X29G rebuilding campaigns were being set aside for scrapping, from the late fifties thru sixties, when they were scrapping tens of thousands of less-than-useful size or condition cars.  There were thousands of X28A and X29 in deadlines awaiting either rebuilding or the scrap heap.  Obviously condition was everything, but numbers overwhelmed need for standard 40' box cars.

Yards like Pitcairn and E Altoona were choked with deadline cars.  There are photos in some books, but it was nothing like in-person.

All these choices led to the PRR freight car shortage of the early sixties.

An X28A in SK would have been extremely unusual.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron, I'm guessing but I think advanced age and inadequate cubic and weight capacity doomed these cars. By the late 50s 50 foot box cars were becoming the norm, often with 70 ton capacity, so older cars were disposed of as soon as they could be economically replaced. Also, though I'm not sure when, the AAR changed the longevity rule from 50 to 40 years but that also must have had an impact.Tony 

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 3:08:21 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@fluor.com> wrote: 

Thanks for all the really specific replies.  I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all.  I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C.  (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.)  And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A.  I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it.  I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

Gatwood, Elden J SAD

#169563

Fabulous story, Mont!  Wish I could have seen that.

Elden Gatwood

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 8:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business.  While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area.  It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills.  I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while.  The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@switzertc.com
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD 
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 7:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron;

Yes.  Those X29, and X28A that did not get chosen for the X29B, X29D, X29E, X29F, and X29G rebuilding campaigns were being set aside for scrapping, from the late fifties thru sixties, when they were scrapping tens of thousands of less-than-useful size or condition cars.  There were thousands of X28A and X29 in deadlines awaiting either rebuilding or the scrap heap.  Obviously condition was everything, but numbers overwhelmed need for standard 40' box cars.

Yards like Pitcairn and E Altoona were choked with deadline cars.  There are photos in some books, but it was nothing like in-person.

All these choices led to the PRR freight car shortage of the early sixties.

An X28A in SK would have been extremely unusual.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron, I'm guessing but I think advanced age and inadequate cubic and weight capacity doomed these cars. By the late 50s 50 foot box cars were becoming the norm, often with 70 ton capacity, so older cars were disposed of as soon as they could be economically replaced. Also, though I'm not sure when, the AAR changed the longevity rule from 50 to 40 years but that also must have had an impact.Tony 

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 3:08:21 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@fluor.com> wrote: 

Thanks for all the really specific replies.  I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all.  I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C.  (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.)  And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A.  I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it.  I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

Dennis Storzek

#169565

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:57 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:

During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business. While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area. It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills. I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while. The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.

I wonder if the building was a 'boxcar burner'? Back in the late seventies I had some dealings with Purdy Co., a scrap merchant in Hammond, Indiana, located just north of State Line Tower. We were buying hinges from old swing door reefers; many of the big doors at the Illinois Railway Museum are hung on these hinges. Anyway, Purdy had an incinerator for burning the linings out of the cars they were scrapping. As I recall, it was two tracks wide and only one car length long, built entirely out of longitudinal slices of tankcar tanks standing on end, with more of these 1/3 tank sections making the roof. Standard procedure was to slosh fuel oil into a couple cars, push them into this building, and throw a flaming rag in after them. The steel enclosure intensified the heat, and kept ashes from flying all over. After the remains of the cars cooled down, they pulled them out and cut them into bite-size chunks, ready for the furnace.

I have no idea how long this lasted; I'm sure the EPA eventually shut it down. Sometime around 1980 there were no more ice reefers to scrap, so our source of hinges dried up, and there was no reason to go down there.

Dennis Storzek

Mont Switzer

#169566

I’m aware that in the 1950’s and 1960’s the Nickel Plate rolled wood boxcars and cabooses off of their trucks and onto their sides where they were burned. They then salvaged the remaining metal and of course the trucks. I know they did this in Frankfort and Muncie, IN, but this process could have been used on about any RIP track.

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:57 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:

During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business. While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area. It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills. I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while. The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.

I wonder if the building was a 'boxcar burner'? Back in the late seventies I had some dealings with Purdy Co., a scrap merchant in Hammond, Indiana, located just north of State Line Tower. We were buying hinges from old swing door reefers; many of the big doors at the Illinois Railway Museum are hung on these hinges. Anyway, Purdy had an incinerator for burning the linings out of the cars they were scrapping. As I recall, it was two tracks wide and only one car length long, built entirely out of longitudinal slices of tankcar tanks standing on end, with more of these 1/3 tank sections making the roof. Standard procedure was to slosh fuel oil into a couple cars, push them into this building, and throw a flaming rag in after them. The steel enclosure intensified the heat, and kept ashes from flying all over. After the remains of the cars cooled down, they pulled them out and cut them into bite-size chunks, ready for the furnace.

I have no idea how long this lasted; I'm sure the EPA eventually shut it down. Sometime around 1980 there were no more ice reefers to scrap, so our source of hinges dried up, and there was no reason to go down there.

Dennis Storzek

mopacfirst

#169570

Elden:

That's the summary I was expecting, with regard to where those cars actually were as their reported numbers were declining.

Considering how many resin and plastic cars I'm currently working on, I think I'll set the X28A aside for now. The X26C is coming along well, with the underframe completed and painted, and some of the detail done on the body. The other two X29 rebuilds have the underframes partly done. I like to finish the underframe and add two ounces of weight (half-ounce fishing weights) after I assembly the body sides, roof and ends but before I do much body detailing.

I've taken to substituting more and more plastic parts on resin kits lately, like brake gear and roofwalks, where they're appropriate. The one-piece F&C cars have meant that I don't need to find plastic roofs or ends, which I've even done on some of the more modern Sunshine prototypes.

Ron Merrick

Gatwood, Elden J SAD

#169603

Ron;

You probably need this.

Elden Gatwood

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Elden:

That's the summary I was expecting, with regard to where those cars actually were as their reported numbers were declining.

Considering how many resin and plastic cars I'm currently working on, I think I'll set the X28A aside for now.  The X26C is coming along well, with the underframe completed and painted, and some of the detail done on the body.  The other two X29 rebuilds have the underframes partly done.  I like to finish the underframe and add two ounces of weight (half-ounce fishing weights) after I assembly the body sides, roof and ends but before I do much body detailing.

I've taken to substituting more and more plastic parts on resin kits lately, like brake gear and roofwalks, where they're appropriate.  The one-piece F&C cars have meant that I don't need to find plastic roofs or ends, which I've even done on some of the more modern Sunshine prototypes.

Ron Merrick

mopacfirst

#169611

Elden:

Thanks. That's clearer than the F&C drawing.

Ron Merrick