Topics

Help Identifying Boxcar Ends.


Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

Can anyone assist in identifying a steam era boxcar project for these ends? Photos attached. Thank you. 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Randy Hammill
 

Those look like Improved Dreadnaught Ends for 10’0” IH cars. They have been described as having rolling pin shaped corrugations and a stiffening rib at the top.

B&O 285000-285999
D&M 3000-3099
DL&W 10000-10039, 52500-53259
GN 11375-11874, 18000-20499
M&StL 4000-5398
NMSX 5200-5201
SP 100000-109099
SP&S 13000-13499
SSW 33850-33949
T&NO 58500-62249
WM 29001-29300

 All the info you’d want in RPCyc 8.

 Randy

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Bruce Griffin
 


Randy,

Thank you. Knowing my modeling interest they were probably purchased for a B&O project.  

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Randy Hammill
 

A little more info - if the ends are what I think they are, the top corrugation was usually (always?) flat along the bottom.

The B&O and some of the SP cars had poling pockets. I couldn’t verify the others with the photos handy, although I think many of them did not. Most of them appear to have a more triangular shaped “tab” at the bottom corners, rather than the square appearance there.

 Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Randy Hammill
 

The B&O M-56 cars were built in May ‘52 with 10-panel sides, 8’ 3/5/5 Youngstown doors (counting corrugations). They had diagonal panel roofs and Duryea underframes, Champion-Peacock handbrakes and US Gypsum running boards. 

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


mopacfirst
 

I believe those are the Intermountain ends that were designed for the '12-panel' 40' boxcar.  The spotting feature are those holes across the middle rib, which were intended for use with the (after our era) crossover handrail.  Intermountain has produced a bajillion RTR versions of this car.  Then they discovered that the same ends were appropriate for the 10-panel 10'0" car that they conveniently already had all the other parts for.  One group of these cars not mentioned below is C&O 17000-17999, which I remember because I'd bought a set of these ends and was almost ready to kitbash one when the RTR version was announced.

Ron Merrick


Andy Carlson
 

Hello-

I am aware of three Improved Dreadnaught Ends made by Intermountain for their 10'0" IH box cars. All three have pins on the backsides to place into IM's 10'0" box cars, including their '37 AAR car

IM tooled up their only one of the three ends with poling pockets for their NYC "Pacemaker" cars. This was a "thinless" end (3/4 IDE) Some SP cars used these ends.
IM did another "thinless" end, without poling pockets
IM made one end with a "thin" top ridge. (thin+3/4 IDE) This was the standard end for their 12-panel box car.

The pictures are in descending order


-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




I believe those are the Intermountain ends that were designed for the '12-panel' 40' boxcar.  The spotting feature are those holes across the middle rib, which were intended for use with the (after our era) crossover handrail.  Intermountain has produced a bajillion RTR versions of this car.  Then they discovered that the same ends were appropriate for the 10-panel 10'0" car that they conveniently already had all the other parts for.  One group of these cars not mentioned below is C&O 17000-17999, which I remember because I'd bought a set of these ends and was almost ready to kitbash one when the RTR version was announced.

Ron Merrick


Tim O'Connor
 

SOME of the SP B-50-27 box cars had the earlier ends without the extra thin rib at the top.

I've enclosed two photos to show this - SP 100303 and 100441. Evidently the ends changed during
the construction period.

The B-50-27 had a 10-0 IH body with 6' door and 10 panel sides - For that you will need
the Intermountain 1937 AAR body (which has a blank space for the car end).

The WM 29000 cars had 7 foot doors. No plastic body.
The B&O M-56 had 8 foot doors. No plastic body.
The DL&W cars had the earlier ends.
The GN 11000 series had the earlier ends.

=================================

On 3/10/2020 11:15 PM, Randy Hammill wrote:
Those look like Improved Dreadnaught Ends for 10’0” IH cars. They have been described as having rolling pin shaped corrugations and a stiffening rib at the top.

B&O 285000-285999
D&M 3000-3099
DL&W 10000-10039, 52500-53259
GN 11375-11874, 18000-20499
M&StL 4000-5398
NMSX 5200-5201
SP 100000-109099
SP&S 13000-13499
SSW 33850-33949
T&NO 58500-62249
WM 29001-29300

 All the info you’d want in RPCyc 8.

 Randy
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Steve Haas
 

3/4 or 0/3/4 (if you define ends from the top down), or 4/3 or 4/3/0 (Bottom up) 10’ ends – probably Intermountain.  Ed Hawkins defines this as IDN Type 1 or IDN-1.  A little bit of Excel work on Ed’s data for Postwar Aar 10’ IH (1945-1958) cars shows 16320 out of 40172 cars were built with this end.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Griffin
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 8:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Help Identifying Boxcar Ends.

 

Friends,

Can anyone assist in identifying a steam era boxcar project for these ends? Photos attached. Thank you. 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Steve Haas
 

Randy Hammill responds:

 

***** Those look like Improved Dreadnaught Ends for 10’0” IH cars. They have been described as having rolling pin shaped corrugations and a stiffening rib at the top. *****

 

***** GN 11375-11874, 18000-20499
SP&S 13000-13499 *****

 

Well . . . . . not so fast. 

 

Referring to Ed Hawkins work again (also included in RPC vol 8),  the ends in the pictures are 4/3 ends, with _N.  Hawkins defines these as IDN Type, or IDN-1, with no top stiffener.

 

The GN series you mentioned (along with another approximately 16,000 cars for other roads) use the IDN-1 ends.

 

Type IDN-2 as described by Hawkins is a 4/3/thin rib end such as you describe above, but with one important difference – the bottom of the top rolling is _FAT_.  Based on Ed’s work, a 4/3/thin rib with a full top rolling pin doesn’t exist for cars of 10’ IH.  If they do, Ed either wasn’t aware of them (doubtful), or considered them outside the scope of his work.

 

To the best of my knowledge, no model manufacturer has marketed a correct 10’ IDN-2 as defined by ED.  Too bad, as almost 20,000 10’ cars were built with the IDN-2 end – seems like a great opportunity for a niche model manufacturer.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

 

 

 


Steve Haas
 

**** IM made one end with a "thin" top ridge. (thin+3/4 IDE) This was the standard end for their 12-panel box car. ****

 

If only they had properly done these with the flattened bottom on the top rolling pin . . . . 

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA


Steve Haas
 

**** SOME of the SP B-50-27 box cars had the earlier ends without the extra thin rib at the top. ****

**** I've enclosed two photos to show this - SP 100303 and 100441. Evidently the ends changed during the construction period. ****

SP 100303 has the IDN-2 end that to my knowledge has never been offered in model form - thin top rib with the bottom of the top rolling pin flattened.

SP 100441 has a version of the end I've never seen before - no top stiffener with a flat bottomed top rolling pin - another opportunity for a niche product!

The B-50-27 had a 10-0 IH body with 6' door and 10 panel sides - For that you will need the Intermountain 1937 AAR body (which has a blank space for the car end).

**** The GN 11000 series had the earlier ends. ****

GN 10' IH 12 panel cars with the IDN-1 end:

2525 - 2549 (3/1948)
10900 - 11199 (2/48)
11200 - 11374 (3/48)

GN 10' IH 12 panel cars with the IDN-2 end:

11375 - 11624 (6/48)
11625 - 11874 (6/48)
18000 - 18499 (6/49)
18500 - 19499 (9/49)
19500 - 20499 (11/52)

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Steve. You're right but I have ignored the treatment of the flat-bottom top major rib because EVERYONE in the hobby biz has ignored it (in HO scale) with one Accurail exception (I think; from memory). There are dozens and dozens of examples where that feature is missing from our models. :-(

-----Original Message-----

From: Goatfisher2@comcast.net
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: 2020-03-13 5:05:05 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help Identifying Boxcar Ends.



**** SOME of the SP B-50-27 box cars had the earlier ends without the extra thin rib at the top. ****

**** I've enclosed two photos to show this - SP 100303 and 100441. Evidently the ends changed during the construction period. ****

SP 100303 has the IDN-2 end that to my knowledge has never been offered in model form - thin top rib with the bottom of the top rolling pin flattened.

SP 100441 has a version of the end I've never seen before - no top stiffener with a flat bottomed top rolling pin - another opportunity for a niche product!

The B-50-27 had a 10-0 IH body with 6' door and 10 panel sides - For that you will need the Intermountain 1937 AAR body (which has a blank space for the car end).

**** The GN 11000 series had the earlier ends. ****

GN 10' IH 12 panel cars with the IDN-1 end:

2525 - 2549 (3/1948)
10900 - 11199 (2/48)
11200 - 11374 (3/48)

GN 10' IH 12 panel cars with the IDN-2 end:

11375 - 11624 (6/48)
11625 - 11874 (6/48)
18000 - 18499 (6/49)
18500 - 19499 (9/49)
19500 - 20499 (11/52)

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA




--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Randy Hammill
 

I must have mistranscribed the GN group.

I mentioned the flat bottom of the top rib in a second post.

Thanks!

Randy

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Steve Haas
 

Tim writes:

**** Thanks Steve. You're right but I have ignored the treatment of the flat-bottom top major rib because EVERYONE in the hobby biz has ignored it (in HO scale) with one Accurail exception (I think; from memory). ****

Your memory is pretty good - Accurail does make a rthin/3/3 end for some of it's reefer kits. Bill Welch posted a teaser shot a year or so ago ahead of one of his clinics. The pic did include a rthin/3/4 end. I queried him off list and he turned me on to the Accurail ends. I've got four sets here that I'm attempting to convert into a viable master suitable for casting enough in resin to cover my needs (Four dozen or so for GN, SP&S, and perhaps other cars). Unfortunately, my skills at removing ladders, brake housings, and tack boards from curve services is lacking . . . . . . ☹

**** There are dozens and dozens of examples where that feature is missing from our models. :-( ****

Yep Almost 20K cars with the IDN-2 end. I'm doing some Excel work to see if I can't do a nice job of summarizing Ed's data by various IDN-2 configurations - maybe a nice summary might temp someone to consider marketing additional end options.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Steve Haas
 

 

**** I must have mis transcribed the GN group. ****

 

Welcome to the group! (GRIN) I can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve made that mistake in my life!

**** I mentioned the flat bottom of the top rib in a second post. ****

 

Yes, you did. It was late last night as I responded to those messages . . . . . .

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

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