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PRR F34 flat

Dave Boss
 

Hello Guy's
                   I'm currently building a F&C PRR F34 flat car. The instructions are very vague about the placement of brake components. If anyone has any info on the placement of the brake parts I would deeply appreciate this as I'm at a stand still with this car. I know some of the parts are to be installed on the span bolsters but I'm not sure of their placement. Thank's

Good Day
Dave

Bruce Smith
 

Dave,

Some resources:
TKM 104 - http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm  this is an article by Chuck Cover kit bashing the Bachmann car, but it will show you gross brake locations. 

TKM 108 - My article on etched decks. Not much about brakes here, but if you look at the deck drawings, you can see the mounting bolts for what I believe is the AB valve.

The PRRT&HS flat car book - http://www.prrths.com/estore/index_books.html
Sadly, the shots in that book are mostly dark about the underbody.


Based on looking at the photos online (above) it looks like Chuck has his cylinder mounted too high on the bolster and he needs to add a reservoir to the bolster.

And, of course, you need a full set of brake hardware on each end.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 12:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PRR F34 flat
 
Hello Guy's
                   I'm currently building a F&C PRR F34 flat car. The instructions are very vague about the placement of brake components. If anyone has any info on the placement of the brake parts I would deeply appreciate this as I'm at a stand still with this car. I know some of the parts are to be installed on the span bolsters but I'm not sure of their placement. Thank's

Good Day
Dave

Chuck Cover
 

Group,

 

A couple of comments on my kit-bashing the F34.  At the time I began to think about this project, F&C had not yet brought out their nice F34 kit.  Before building the kit-bash, I ordered, from the PRRT&HS, tracings of the car so that I could better understand what I needed to do to model it from the Athearn/Bachman model.  These tracings are relatively inexpensive and give great detail on the car.  One can order just the tracings for the air brake details.

 

All of my kit-bash projects, as well as all of my resin builds, are built so that they reliably will operate on my layout.  I try to get as close to prototypical as I can, but operations is more important to me than to get every detail perfect.  Thus when kit-bashing the F34, I looked at photos and attempted to place the visible brake details in the appropriate locations, however, I needed to find a way to do it so that the triple valve and brake cylinder did not interfere with how the car tracked.  This is detailed in the article.  Most of the brake detail is not visible anyway so I installed just those two components and called it a day.  The car tracks perfectly and runs well without a load and has been doing so for almost 3 years during my monthly operating sessions, so for me, it was a success.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM

Dave Boss
 

Bruce
           Thank you for your response. I have referenced the TKM articles. Unfortunately they do not show any of the duel brake arrangements. F&C is very vague on their instructions. I referenced my 1940 car builder cyclopedia as well with no luck. I'm not going to super detail the underside as it is not visible. However some of the brake detail is visible in some photos, but not clear enough to see how they are arranged. I have no idea how to arrange the brake components parts onto the span bolsters? There are no indications on them to show as to were the parts mite go. F&C just states install them when you get to this point. You mentioned the PRRT&HS flat car book do you know if the book provides any kind of brake arrangement for the cars? If I knew the book listed them I would look for a copy as I don't currently own one. I believe the society has sold them out.

          On another note I did find out that the D&H version of this car that I posted a question on a while back is the same car as a NYC car. They showed up in my 1953 car builders cyclopedia. Both were built 1951.

Good Day
Dave

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 1:50 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Dave,

Some resources:
TKM 104 - http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm  this is an article by Chuck Cover kit bashing the Bachmann car, but it will show you gross brake locations. 

TKM 108 - My article on etched decks. Not much about brakes here, but if you look at the deck drawings, you can see the mounting bolts for what I believe is the AB valve.

The PRRT&HS flat car book - http://www.prrths.com/estore/index_books.html
Sadly, the shots in that book are mostly dark about the underbody.


Based on looking at the photos online (above) it looks like Chuck has his cylinder mounted too high on the bolster and he needs to add a reservoir to the bolster.

And, of course, you need a full set of brake hardware on each end.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 12:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PRR F34 flat
 
Hello Guy's
                   I'm currently building a F&C PRR F34 flat car. The instructions are very vague about the placement of brake components. If anyone has any info on the placement of the brake parts I would deeply appreciate this as I'm at a stand still with this car. I know some of the parts are to be installed on the span bolsters but I'm not sure of their placement. Thank's

Good Day
Dave

Dave Boss
 

  Chuck
               I very much enjoyed your article on the F34 flat. You did an excellent job on the kit bash. I agree that the operation is the most important aspect of this car. All I was looking for was how the brake parts supplied with kit are to be arranged so as to be able to assemble them properly. F&C doesn't really give you a good explanation or diagram as to how they are installed. Hopefully it will operate as well as yours once the parts are properly mounted on. I will have to contact the PRRT&HS about this tracing. Thank you for your help on this  matter.

Good Day
Dave

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 3:54 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Group,

 

A couple of comments on my kit-bashing the F34.  At the time I began to think about this project, F&C had not yet brought out their nice F34 kit.  Before building the kit-bash, I ordered, from the PRRT&HS, tracings of the car so that I could better understand what I needed to do to model it from the Athearn/Bachman model.  These tracings are relatively inexpensive and give great detail on the car.  One can order just the tracings for the air brake details.

 

All of my kit-bash projects, as well as all of my resin builds, are built so that they reliably will operate on my layout.  I try to get as close to prototypical as I can, but operations is more important to me than to get every detail perfect.  Thus when kit-bashing the F34, I looked at photos and attempted to place the visible brake details in the appropriate locations, however, I needed to find a way to do it so that the triple valve and brake cylinder did not interfere with how the car tracked.  This is detailed in the article.  Most of the brake detail is not visible anyway so I installed just those two components and called it a day.  The car tracks perfectly and runs well without a load and has been doing so for almost 3 years during my monthly operating sessions, so for me, it was a success.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM

Bruce Smith
 

Dave,

Looking at the very same resources that you say are not helpful, here's what I have figured out...

1) Brake cylinder - one brake cylinder is mounted to each span bolster so that when looking at the car side-on, the cylinder shows on the left span bolster. If you look at the photo of 470202 from the Hagley, you can see it sticking out behind the left wheel of the right truck of the left bolster, pointed at the end of the car. Above that, you can see what looks an air tank of some sort? maybe?  I can't see any evidence of this in any other sources. Note that, as I said, the cylinder appears lower than Chuck's mount because its centerline is below that of the wheels and the bottom of the span bolster. That makes sense, since there was undoubtedly brake rigging under the span bolster, as you can see by the rodding under the bolster in the photo of 470202

2) Between the trucks on the right hand span bolster you can see the AB brake valve. That appears to be affixed to the body of the car. You can, in part tell that by looking at my TKM article about the decks. Looking at the deck pattern, you can see that, as you stand at the end of the car, the pattern of tie-down holes is interrupted on both the end deck panel and one panel in on the left side by bolts or rivets. The two bolts/rivets on the second panel in are, I presume, are the location of the mounts for the AB valve. 

3) The 4 bolts on the end deck panels are for the two air tanks, as shown in the F&C instructions, with the shorter tank outboard of the longer tank.

4) The retainer is on the side of the car at the right end.

5) Both sides are identical.

For more resources, here's an old brass Westside car posted by John Sethian
I have no idea what is going on with what looks like a K brake reservoir on the body... that should be an AB valve, but the rest of it seems to follow my surmises... including brake rigging under the span bolsters!

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 11:59 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR F34 flat
 
Bruce
           Thank you for your response. I have referenced the TKM articles. Unfortunately they do not show any of the duel brake arrangements. F&C is very vague on their instructions. I referenced my 1940 car builder cyclopedia as well with no luck. I'm not going to super detail the underside as it is not visible. However some of the brake detail is visible in some photos, but not clear enough to see how they are arranged. I have no idea how to arrange the brake components parts onto the span bolsters? There are no indications on them to show as to were the parts mite go. F&C just states install them when you get to this point. You mentioned the PRRT&HS flat car book do you know if the book provides any kind of brake arrangement for the cars? If I knew the book listed them I would look for a copy as I don't currently own one. I believe the society has sold them out.

          On another note I did find out that the D&H version of this car that I posted a question on a while back is the same car as a NYC car. They showed up in my 1953 car builders cyclopedia. Both were built 1951.

Good Day
Dave

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 1:50 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Dave,

Some resources:
TKM 104 - http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm  this is an article by Chuck Cover kit bashing the Bachmann car, but it will show you gross brake locations. 

TKM 108 - My article on etched decks. Not much about brakes here, but if you look at the deck drawings, you can see the mounting bolts for what I believe is the AB valve.

The PRRT&HS flat car book - http://www.prrths.com/estore/index_books.html
Sadly, the shots in that book are mostly dark about the underbody.


Based on looking at the photos online (above) it looks like Chuck has his cylinder mounted too high on the bolster and he needs to add a reservoir to the bolster.

And, of course, you need a full set of brake hardware on each end.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 12:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PRR F34 flat
 
Hello Guy's
                   I'm currently building a F&C PRR F34 flat car. The instructions are very vague about the placement of brake components. If anyone has any info on the placement of the brake parts I would deeply appreciate this as I'm at a stand still with this car. I know some of the parts are to be installed on the span bolsters but I'm not sure of their placement. Thank's

Good Day
Dave

Dave Boss
 

Hello Bruce
                     Thank you so much for the photo of the brass car. Now we're getting some where. I was a bit confused at first about the placement of the brake equipment. I have never seen a car equipped with a duel brake arrangement. What I was really confused with was the arrangement of the brake lever assembly. From what I have found in my instructions F&C doesn't really explain their installation. The photo of the brass car you so graciously, provided however does clearly show the arrangement of the brake levers on the span bolsters. This really helps me with understanding their installation. Now I can move forward. A BIG thanks again. I would also like to thank all the rest of the group for their help as well.

Good Day to all
Dave

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 12:13 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Dave,

Looking at the very same resources that you say are not helpful, here's what I have figured out...

1) Brake cylinder - one brake cylinder is mounted to each span bolster so that when looking at the car side-on, the cylinder shows on the left span bolster. If you look at the photo of 470202 from the Hagley, you can see it sticking out behind the left wheel of the right truck of the left bolster, pointed at the end of the car. Above that, you can see what looks an air tank of some sort? maybe?  I can't see any evidence of this in any other sources. Note that, as I said, the cylinder appears lower than Chuck's mount because its centerline is below that of the wheels and the bottom of the span bolster. That makes sense, since there was undoubtedly brake rigging under the span bolster, as you can see by the rodding under the bolster in the photo of 470202

2) Between the trucks on the right hand span bolster you can see the AB brake valve. That appears to be affixed to the body of the car. You can, in part tell that by looking at my TKM article about the decks. Looking at the deck pattern, you can see that, as you stand at the end of the car, the pattern of tie-down holes is interrupted on both the end deck panel and one panel in on the left side by bolts or rivets. The two bolts/rivets on the second panel in are, I presume, are the location of the mounts for the AB valve. 

3) The 4 bolts on the end deck panels are for the two air tanks, as shown in the F&C instructions, with the shorter tank outboard of the longer tank.

4) The retainer is on the side of the car at the right end.

5) Both sides are identical.

For more resources, here's an old brass Westside car posted by John Sethian
I have no idea what is going on with what looks like a K brake reservoir on the body... that should be an AB valve, but the rest of it seems to follow my surmises... including brake rigging under the span bolsters!

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 11:59 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR F34 flat
 
Bruce
           Thank you for your response. I have referenced the TKM articles. Unfortunately they do not show any of the duel brake arrangements. F&C is very vague on their instructions. I referenced my 1940 car builder cyclopedia as well with no luck. I'm not going to super detail the underside as it is not visible. However some of the brake detail is visible in some photos, but not clear enough to see how they are arranged. I have no idea how to arrange the brake components parts onto the span bolsters? There are no indications on them to show as to were the parts mite go. F&C just states install them when you get to this point. You mentioned the PRRT&HS flat car book do you know if the book provides any kind of brake arrangement for the cars? If I knew the book listed them I would look for a copy as I don't currently own one. I believe the society has sold them out.

          On another note I did find out that the D&H version of this car that I posted a question on a while back is the same car as a NYC car. They showed up in my 1953 car builders cyclopedia. Both were built 1951.

Good Day
Dave

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 1:50 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Dave,

Some resources:
TKM 104 - http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm  this is an article by Chuck Cover kit bashing the Bachmann car, but it will show you gross brake locations. 

TKM 108 - My article on etched decks. Not much about brakes here, but if you look at the deck drawings, you can see the mounting bolts for what I believe is the AB valve.

The PRRT&HS flat car book - http://www.prrths.com/estore/index_books.html
Sadly, the shots in that book are mostly dark about the underbody.


Based on looking at the photos online (above) it looks like Chuck has his cylinder mounted too high on the bolster and he needs to add a reservoir to the bolster.

And, of course, you need a full set of brake hardware on each end.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 12:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PRR F34 flat
 
Hello Guy's
                   I'm currently building a F&C PRR F34 flat car. The instructions are very vague about the placement of brake components. If anyone has any info on the placement of the brake parts I would deeply appreciate this as I'm at a stand still with this car. I know some of the parts are to be installed on the span bolsters but I'm not sure of their placement. Thank's

Good Day
Dave

Rob Schoenberg
 

I know this is probably a little too late but I have a document showing the brake rodding for most PRR classes on my website.
http://prr.railfan.net/documents/pdf/ACS_Sketch481_DiagramsBrakeArrangements.pdf
I attached the page for the F34 in case it will help.

Rob

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Thank you most kindly for posting the link, Rob - 'tis never too late to post prototype information!

Regards
Paul

Whangarei, NZ

Dave Boss
 

Thank You Rob for your posting. Everything helps. WOW! That is some brake rigging arrangement.

Dave

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 7:48 AM Paul Woods <paul@...> wrote:
Thank you most kindly for posting the link, Rob - 'tis never too late to post prototype information!

Regards
Paul

Whangarei, NZ

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