Topics

Painting brass


Clark Propst
 

Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?
Thanks, appreciate it!
CW Propst


Tony Thompson
 

Clark Propst wrote:

Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?

   Clark, I almost always use a light gray primer, sometimes even from a rattle can, but with good paint, such as Tamiya. And I let it sit for some time to be ENTIRELY dry.

Tony Thompson




Pierre Oliver
 

brass is fussy
Remove any factory clear coat, worst part of the job
Wash
Soak in white vinegar
wash
Prime
Bake
Colour coats, bake

Don't touch clean brass with fingers

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2020-04-11 7:22 p.m., Clark Propst wrote:

Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?
Thanks, appreciate it!
CW Propst


J. Craig Whitcomb
 




On Apr 11, 2020, at 6:54 PM, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:



brass is fussy
Remove any factory clear coat, worst part of the job
Wash
Soak in white vinegar
wash
Prime
Bake
Colour coats, bake

Don't touch clean brass with fingers

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2020-04-11 7:22 p.m., Clark Propst wrote:
Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?
Thanks, appreciate it!
CW Propst


Nelson Moyer
 

I’m guessing you’re using Scalecoat or Scalecoat II? What about other paints like Tru Color? Do you still bake?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pierre Oliver
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

 

brass is fussy
Remove any factory clear coat, worst part of the job
Wash
Soak in white vinegar
wash
Prime
Bake
Colour coats, bake

Don't touch clean brass with fingers

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 2020-04-11 7:22 p.m., Clark Propst wrote:

Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?
Thanks, appreciate it!
CW Propst


Donald B. Valentine
 

    I agree with Pierre except on one thing. WHY PRIME? Primer hides detail. I've been painting brass for 
over fifty years, painted my first piece with fellow STMFC member Andy Miller's air brush at the MIT Model
RR Club shortly before I bought my own Paasche and with Andy looking over my shoulder. I used Floquil
Zinc Chromate Primer and Floquil paint. This was the only two models I have ever painted with primer or
Floquil paint, the first and the last!  I still have that model to remind me of why I never used Floquil again
and cheered when they went out of business. I switched to Scalecoat, now called Scalecoat I to differ it 
from Scalecost II that is meant for plastic, and have never regreted it  It does not need a primer nor is one 
recomended. But like Pierre I grit blast brass, clean it well and if I have a concern will also use white 
vinegar in the preparation process. I have never had  a problem with Scalecoat I not adhering to a model
if this process is followed. Scalecoat also lasts well when sealed well. I have at least 1 bottle of it with the 
original address on the label: 888 Velmont Ave., Birmingham, AL

   For resin or styrene I will occasionally use Scalecoat paint but the usual paint I use there is now Tru-Color
which I know to be manufatured by the same Califoria supplier that supplied Accu-Paint to George Bishop
in five gallon cans. The late Gordon Cannon, founder of Cannon & Company, was also a great supporter
of Accu-Paint.
of u

Cordially, Don Valentine


Andy Carlson
 

Tim O'Connor can tell you that George Bishop received his California supplied paint in 1 gallon buckets, 4 to a card board box, stacked together on wooden pallets.

I have way too much time.....
-Andy Carlson   Ojai CA

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 6:22:28 PM PDT, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
.....5 gallon cans from California.....

 
   For resin or styrene I will occasionally use Scalecoat paint but the usual paint I use there is now Tru-Color
which I know to be manufatured by the same Califoria supplier that supplied Accu-Paint to George Bishop
in five gallon cans. The late Gordon Cannon, founder of Cannon & Company, was also a great supporter
of Accu-Paint.
of u
_._,_._,_


Malcolm H. Houck
 

Painting Brass: --

Soak in solvent to make sure all flux and oils are removed;

Soak in white vinegar (nothing more that weak acetic acid);

Rinse and dry;

I blast in a cabinet with #400 Alox;

Most primer is nothing more than another (unnecessary) coat of paint, and
of questionable value when attempting a (chemical) bond to non-ferrous material
and so-called etching primers are formulated for ferric materials employing
phosphoric acid as the etchant (creating iron phosphate for paint to stick to);

But I do coat with a clear industrial preparation.......branded as "Steelcote"
(and consisting largely of purified shellac - once covered with the color coat
it's as durable as anything else);

Paint and then bake......I have stuff painted over thirty-five years ago
with Steelcote - Scalecoat.......trudged all over and about for display, packed, unpacked,
repacked, unpacked.......etc., etc., etc.,

Rarely any touch up..........

Mal Houck


Donald B. Valentine
 

       I first met George Bishop when we both suffered working in Boston, neither of us being city oriented. That was 50
years ago when George was just starting SMP and working for a Boston firm full time as I was also. He began with a
kit or two, the one I remember being of the CV caol tipple at not too distant from me back in Vermont at St. Albans. It 
was based on an Eric Stevens articlle in MR years ago. From there he sent into decals and eventually paint. If George
were still with us he would confirm what he told me during a visit when he and Ron, whose last name escapes me this
morning, were printing decals for NERS. That is that I was one of the chief causes of his giv9ing up on Floquil and 
changing paint suppliers. Yes, some of the slow selling colors came in one gallon cans, which made them quite a bit
more expensive then the five gallon cans used for more popular colors. Toward the end George may well have chenged
and received all colors in ne gallon cans. I don't know about that as I did not see him that often after he experienced a
house fire some yerar ago.

      I have heard some from the Nashua Valley Club, which he housed in the same building on nis property that his office
was in, members complain vehemently about George and can only saw that in his dealings with me for NERS work were 
ALWAYS honorable and straight forward. I wish he was still with us and that he and Ron were still working together as 
they would still be printing decals for NERS. As late STMFC member Dick Dermody noticed VERY quickly once George 
began having MicroScale print his decals. the quaity rapidly and noticeably declined. This was especially noticeable, 
and is where Dick first observed it, in decals for B&M E-7 passenger diesels where the registration went to hell in a hand
basket and created problems between George and MicroScale. I believe this is what lead MicroScale to seemingly copy
the much of the Accu-cal line. It's a damn good thing it wan't me they were dealing with!

     Rest in peace George. You served us well and brought to us the best paint yet found for painting styrene.

Respectfully, Don Valenttine


Bill Welch
 

Do whatever Mal says, always. . .

Bill Welch


Tim O'Connor
 


Painting brass with PRIMER is NECESSARY when using Accupaint on brass. Simple as that.

But when I use Scalecoat I, it's not necessary. Unless I do it for COLOR reasons (such
as a light color primer under Daylight Red or Daylight Orange).

I painted this car with SC-I, baked it, and applied CDS dry transfers.

By the way, those W&R sprung trucks have FIVE SPRINGS in each sideframe! Ask me how I
know! :-D




On 4/11/2020 10:26 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:
Tim O'Connor can tell you that George Bishop received his California supplied paint in 1 gallon buckets, 4 to a card board box, stacked together on wooden pallets.

I have way too much time.....
-Andy Carlson   Ojai CA

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 6:22:28 PM PDT, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
.....5 gallon cans from California.....


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Bruce Smith
 

Mal,

Why do you etch in vinegar and then grit blast? To me that means that one of the two of those approaches is not working 😉. I would simply grit blast to give "tooth" and remove any tarnish or oxidation.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Malcolm H. Houck via groups.io <Indian640@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 9:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass
 
Painting Brass: --

Soak in solvent to make sure all flux and oils are removed;

Soak in white vinegar (nothing more that weak acetic acid);

Rinse and dry;

I blast in a cabinet with #400 Alox;

Most primer is nothing more than another (unnecessary) coat of paint, and
of questionable value when attempting a (chemical) bond to non-ferrous material
and so-called etching primers are formulated for ferric materials employing
phosphoric acid as the etchant (creating iron phosphate for paint to stick to);

But I do coat with a clear industrial preparation.......branded as "Steelcote"
(and consisting largely of purified shellac - once covered with the color coat
it's as durable as anything else);

Paint and then bake......I have stuff painted over thirty-five years ago
with Steelcote - Scalecoat.......trudged all over and about for display, packed, unpacked,
repacked, unpacked.......etc., etc., etc.,

Rarely any touch up..........

Mal Houck


Bruce Smith
 

My 2 cents...

Disassemble

As noted by many, remove the clear coat (stripper, sometime grit blaster)

Always etch in some way - I grit blast with baking soda.  A note that baking soda is not nearly as effective as Aluminum oxide, but it is much safer (accidental inhalation) and I can dispose of the used stuff on my lawn to counter my acid soil 😉

Wash thoroughly, rinse very thoroughly, dry and DO NOT TOCUH with bare hands.

If I am using acrylics for the colors, I prime with a Rattle can, Model Master Flat Black Enamel (note. I have avoided doing light colors this way). This paint is amazingly fine, does not obscure details, self levels and sticks to brass, to the point where it is hard to strip it. When I am painting something black, I'm done at this step!

If I am using Scalecoat 1, as others have noted, no primer is needed.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL (headed for the tornado shelter with a kit shortly - good luck and stay safe to all my southern friends today!)


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 6:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass
 
Clark Propst wrote:

Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?

   Clark, I almost always use a light gray primer, sometimes even from a rattle can, but with good paint, such as Tamiya. And I let it sit for some time to be ENTIRELY dry.

Tony Thompson




Tim O'Connor
 


I've painted over a hundred brass models and have never used vinegar, and only once used
a grit blaster because there was oxidation on the model.

"Unpainted" brass is painted with clear lacquer because otherwise it oxidizes. To remove
this I bought a HUGE plastic storage jar and filled it with acrylic lacquer thinner. The
jar lasted about 15 years before the thinner began to attack the plastic... So anyway, I
would just drop the whole car (it was tall enough for a 90 foot autorack) into the jar
and let the thinner dissolve the clear coat. Then come detergent and warm water cleanup
and sometimes a bit of brushing to remove the coating from grabirons and such.

And Pierre is right, don't handle the dry clean brass with oily fingers! Been there, done
that. :-D



On 4/12/2020 10:33 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Mal,

Why do you etch in vinegar and then grit blast? To me that means that one of the two of those approaches is not working 😉. I would simply grit blast to give "tooth" and remove any tarnish or oxidation.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Malcolm H. Houck via groups.io <Indian640@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 9:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass
 
Painting Brass: --

Soak in solvent to make sure all flux and oils are removed;

Soak in white vinegar (nothing more that weak acetic acid);

Rinse and dry;

I blast in a cabinet with #400 Alox;

Most primer is nothing more than another (unnecessary) coat of paint, and
of questionable value when attempting a (chemical) bond to non-ferrous material
and so-called etching primers are formulated for ferric materials employing
phosphoric acid as the etchant (creating iron phosphate for paint to stick to);

But I do coat with a clear industrial preparation.......branded as "Steelcote"
(and consisting largely of purified shellac - once covered with the color coat
it's as durable as anything else);

Paint and then bake......I have stuff painted over thirty-five years ago
with Steelcote - Scalecoat.......trudged all over and about for display, packed, unpacked,
repacked, unpacked.......etc., etc., etc.,

Rarely any touch up..........

Mal Houck


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Fred Jansz
 

Dip the model in thinner overnight, blast with alu oxide, wash & dry, then a light mist of Vallejo gray primer, paint with Tru-Color, decal and finish with Vallejo satin.
Fred Jansz


bob.stetser@...
 

Soak in lacquer thinner for a couple of hours to remove whatever is on the model.

Run twice in the ultrasonic cleaner, let dry

Spray, from rattle can, Rust-Oleum Primer, SELF ETCHING PRIMER, let dry

Spray with airbrush color of choice.

Bake 1 hour in oven at 185 degrees, leave in oven until cool.


Mont Switzer
 

Many years ago I learned a hard lesson about baking brass models.  In conjunction with that lesson I also got to learn how to re-assemble some brass models.  After that I still used Mrs. Switzer's oven, but I went about it differently.  I now use the following steps:

1. preheat the oven to 150 degrees (I'm not disagreeing with 185 degrees)
2. when the light indicates the oven is at 150 degrees (pre-heat completed) turn it off
3. insert models
4. allow oven to cool and remove models 

The bad experience I had may have been a defect in the oven, but I'm not going to find out a second time.  I had placed the models in the oven and set it to pre-heat to 150 degrees.  It appears that during the pre-heating process the oven went well above 150 to bring the oven to the desired temperature.  That temperature was high enough to melt solder.

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of bob.stetser@... [bob.stetser@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

Soak in lacquer thinner for a couple of hours to remove whatever is on the model.

Run twice in the ultrasonic cleaner, let dry

Spray, from rattle can, Rust-Oleum Primer, SELF ETCHING PRIMER, let dry

Spray with airbrush color of choice.

Bake 1 hour in oven at 185 degrees, leave in oven until cool.


BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

In my case, I have to set the oven to 170ºF, because it won’t go any lower. So when it hits 150ºF, I’d put the model in and turn it off.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 2:39 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

 

Many years ago I learned a hard lesson about baking brass models.  In conjunction with that lesson I also got to learn how to re-assemble some brass models.  After that I still used Mrs. Switzer's oven, but I went about it differently.  I now use the following steps:

 

1. preheat the oven to 150 degrees (I'm not disagreeing with 185 degrees)

2. when the light indicates the oven is at 150 degrees (pre-heat completed) turn it off

3. insert models

4. allow oven to cool and remove models 

 

The bad experience I had may have been a defect in the oven, but I'm not going to find out a second time.  I had placed the models in the oven and set it to pre-heat to 150 degrees.  It appears that during the pre-heating process the oven went well above 150 to bring the oven to the desired temperature.  That temperature was high enough to melt solder.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of bob.stetser@... [bob.stetser@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

Soak in lacquer thinner for a couple of hours to remove whatever is on the model.

Run twice in the ultrasonic cleaner, let dry

Spray, from rattle can, Rust-Oleum Primer, SELF ETCHING PRIMER, let dry

Spray with airbrush color of choice.

Bake 1 hour in oven at 185 degrees, leave in oven until cool.


John Larkin
 

Mont,

Did you consider the model to be "well-done" after the first baking?   (Groan!)

John Larkin



On Saturday, April 18, 2020, 2:52:12 PM CDT, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


In my case, I have to set the oven to 170ºF, because it won’t go any lower. So when it hits 150ºF, I’d put the model in and turn it off.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 2:39 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

 

Many years ago I learned a hard lesson about baking brass models.  In conjunction with that lesson I also got to learn how to re-assemble some brass models.  After that I still used Mrs. Switzer's oven, but I went about it differently.  I now use the following steps:

 

1. preheat the oven to 150 degrees (I'm not disagreeing with 185 degrees)

2. when the light indicates the oven is at 150 degrees (pre-heat completed) turn it off

3. insert models

4. allow oven to cool and remove models 

 

The bad experience I had may have been a defect in the oven, but I'm not going to find out a second time.  I had placed the models in the oven and set it to pre-heat to 150 degrees.  It appears that during the pre-heating process the oven went well above 150 to bring the oven to the desired temperature.  That temperature was high enough to melt solder.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of bob.stetser@... [bob.stetser@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

Soak in lacquer thinner for a couple of hours to remove whatever is on the model.

Run twice in the ultrasonic cleaner, let dry

Spray, from rattle can, Rust-Oleum Primer, SELF ETCHING PRIMER, let dry

Spray with airbrush color of choice.

Bake 1 hour in oven at 185 degrees, leave in oven until cool.


Mont Switzer
 

John,

Oh yeah, it was well-done alright.  

It was wondering what that sound was coming from the kitchen, the tink, tink, tink, which turned out to be turned brass air tanks from several Alco C-420 frames hitting the cookie sheet.

I can laugh about it now.

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of John Larkin via groups.io [jflarkingrc@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

Mont,

Did you consider the model to be "well-done" after the first baking?   (Groan!)

John Larkin



On Saturday, April 18, 2020, 2:52:12 PM CDT, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


In my case, I have to set the oven to 170ºF, because it won’t go any lower. So when it hits 150ºF, I’d put the model in and turn it off.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 2:39 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

 

Many years ago I learned a hard lesson about baking brass models.  In conjunction with that lesson I also got to learn how to re-assemble some brass models.  After that I still used Mrs. Switzer's oven, but I went about it differently.  I now use the following steps:

 

1. preheat the oven to 150 degrees (I'm not disagreeing with 185 degrees)

2. when the light indicates the oven is at 150 degrees (pre-heat completed) turn it off

3. insert models

4. allow oven to cool and remove models 

 

The bad experience I had may have been a defect in the oven, but I'm not going to find out a second time.  I had placed the models in the oven and set it to pre-heat to 150 degrees.  It appears that during the pre-heating process the oven went well above 150 to bring the oven to the desired temperature.  That temperature was high enough to melt solder.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of bob.stetser@... [bob.stetser@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

Soak in lacquer thinner for a couple of hours to remove whatever is on the model.

Run twice in the ultrasonic cleaner, let dry

Spray, from rattle can, Rust-Oleum Primer, SELF ETCHING PRIMER, let dry

Spray with airbrush color of choice.

Bake 1 hour in oven at 185 degrees, leave in oven until cool.