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Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can


John Riddell
 

Has anyone sprayed Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 from the can ?
On several occasions it has left a WHITE POWDER RESIDUE on the model.
Has anyone experienced this ?

John Riddell


Paul Doggett
 

That’s the French chalk it’s the flatting agent in the varnish. I have not used Tamiya but I had it happen with Humbrol matt varnish you really have to shake the can especially if it’s been stored for some time.
Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 14 Apr 2020, at 12:57, John Riddell <riddellj@...> wrote:

Has anyone sprayed Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 from the can ?
On several occasions it has left a WHITE POWDER RESIDUE on the model.
Has anyone experienced this ?

John Riddell


Nelson Moyer
 

I haven’t used Tamiya dull coat, so I can’t comment directly. I have seen a little white powder accumulation on SS car Z-channel when I got overzealous with Model Master Clear Flat and put down a wet coat. The talc or whatever they use tends to settle next to vertical details, on ladder stiles and rungs, or on grab irons, etc. The best way to avoid that is to use a couple of light passes, let it dry, and it it’s not flat enough, repeat the application. Also shake the can frequently to keep the particulate suspended and evenly mixed.  I never had that problem with Dullcote, and I don’t use acrylic flats because they cloud the paint color. I’ve never had enough powder accumulation to have to redo a car. The slight white residue I’ve seen can be covered during weathering, since it’s already in location that accumulate dirt and grime.

 

Sometimes Dullcote will cloud if it’s sprayed on a humid day. If it’s not too bad, spray Testors Universal Thinner on the car and let it day, If it’s bad, you can try brushing the thinner on with a wide flat brush and let it dry, but you risk ruining decals if they’re not well sealed.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Riddell
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 6:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can

 

Has anyone sprayed Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 from the can ?
On several occasions it has left a WHITE POWDER RESIDUE on the model.
Has anyone experienced this ?

John Riddell


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Am I all wet or are those of us who have stuck with the tried and true flat and/or gloss finishes by
suppliers such as Scalecoat and Testors really missing something? From all the complaints viewed
herein over the past week I think most of these new flat and clear finishes leave A LOT to be desired.
I'll stick with the older ones. As we say here in New England, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Cordially, Don Valentine


Eric Hansmann
 

I’ve had sputtering rattle cans of Dullcoat ruin freight car finishes. I swore those off many years ago. I had used rattle cans of Model Master Clear Flat with good success before I set up a spray booth.

 

I now prefer to use the airbrush to spray Model Master Flat Clear Acryl with a few drop of the appropriate freight car color to add a chalky appearance to start the weathering process. The flat + drops of color also cuts the whiteness of decals. You can compare the before and after on a boxcar in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

YMMV.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can

 

Am I all wet or are those of us who have stuck with the tried and true flat and/or gloss finishes by

suppliers such as Scalecoat and Testors really missing something? From all the complaints viewed

herein over the past week I think most of these new flat and clear finishes leave A LOT to be desired.

I'll stick with the older ones. As we say here in New England, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Todd Sullivan
 

My experience is consistent with Nelson's, with various flat finishes.  I recall one situation where I experienced the 'frosting' of the flat coat, and I let it dry for 20 minutes and resprayed with a light coat of lacquer thinner (probably automotive grade, it's what I generally use) and the frosting disappeared.

I have also found that, when spraying Tamiya rattle can acrylic lacquer paint, you do need to spray on successive light coats and let each one dry.  I have to spray on our apartment balcony, since I  have no paint booth, where it is breezy, and I've gotten impatient and not waited until the wetness is gone, and also sprayed too close to the model.  A couple of times, the paint produced small 'bubbles' of paint that do not dry flat.  Those were my mistakes, and other that that, Tamiya paint in spray cans is amazing and easy to use. 

BTW, every brand of paint I've used has its own characteristics, and we, as modelers, need to experiment and learn their peculiarities.  Going from Floquil lacquer to AccuPaint was one of my biggest leaps.

Keep staying healthy and safe!

Todd Sullivan


Todd Sullivan
 

... And I keep shaking the cans throughout the painting process, whether I'm spraying clear or colors.

Todd Sullivan


Nelson Moyer
 

I neglected to mention that I don’t use Dullcote or Model Master rattle cans for clear coats, either gloss or flat. My experience was similar to Eric’s. The nozzle of Model Master Cans is nowhere close putting out a fine spray as Tamiya cans. I always use an airbrush for clear coats (gloss, semi-gloss, or flat), but even then, If I get too close or stay in one place too long, I sometimes get the white powder effect of raised details. Instead of trying to cover every nook and cranny in one coat, it’s best to apply multiple coats as needed with drying in between. My current practice is to lightly spray the whole model with clear flat and let it dry. Then I look for shiny places, and selectively spray a little more clear flat on those spots. There should be no need to respray the whole model if the first application was properly applied.

 

The ONLY rattle cans I use now are Tamiya and Krylon. Yes, Krylon. I paint simulated stainless steel betterment passenger cars with Krylon Flat Aluminum. Until Tru Color came along, it was the best of the ‘silver/aluminum/steel’ [paints for passenger cars. I made color ships of the Tru Color steel/aluminum colors, and it has very fine pigment, sprays without clogging the airbrush, and levels to a smooth, thin finish. I haven’t painted a car with Tru Color yet, but I think it’s as good or better than Krylon.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can

 

I’ve had sputtering rattle cans of Dullcoat ruin freight car finishes. I swore those off many years ago. I had used rattle cans of Model Master Clear Flat with good success before I set up a spray booth.

 

I now prefer to use the airbrush to spray Model Master Flat Clear Acryl with a few drop of the appropriate freight car color to add a chalky appearance to start the weathering process. The flat + drops of color also cuts the whiteness of decals. You can compare the before and after on a boxcar in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

YMMV.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can

 

Am I all wet or are those of us who have stuck with the tried and true flat and/or gloss finishes by

suppliers such as Scalecoat and Testors really missing something? From all the complaints viewed

herein over the past week I think most of these new flat and clear finishes leave A LOT to be desired.

I'll stick with the older ones. As we say here in New England, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Craig Zeni
 

On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:42 AM, main@RealSTMFC.groups.io wrote:

4d. Re: Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can
From: Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:27:28 EDT

Am I all wet or are those of us who have stuck with the tried and true flat and/or gloss finishes bysuppliers such as Scalecoat and Testors really missing something? From all the complaints viewedherein over the past week I think most of these new flat and clear finishes leave A LOT to be desired.I'll stick with the older ones. As we say here in New England, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
Cordially, Don Valentine
I never liked the Testors dullcoat, Walthers DDV, or even the Scalecoat flat - all were/are too amber I really noticed that the first time I used the Floquil flat and compared that Southern Rwy diesel to one I'd done with Dullcoat - the aluminum stripe had a distinctly a was my go-to for years - no amber hue. Then the Model Master lacquer-based flats seemed to airbrush better for me but of course those are gone. I always struggled with the Polly Scale flats - I usually had issues with it going on evenly and not having my airbrush flinging boogers of flat onto the model. I never was able to full predict or cure the boogers issue. I stopped using it when I had an application of it craze on a model - never saw it do that before and I never gave it another chance.

I have found another flat that I *really* like, the Hataka flat product from Poland. Comes in a nice little squeeze dropper bottle like the MIG and Vallejo products, and the Hataka bottle has a little agitator ball in it. It ls lacquer based, airbrushes very very nicely and evenly, and only a hint of amber. Thin it with lacquer thinner (hardware store stuff or the Tamiya lacquer thinner) and it goes on like a dream. Haven't had it frost, craze or fling boogers. Great stuff. I've been trying to get some of their paint, with very limited success. The paint seems to be sold in sets and i don't really need a variety of Luftwaffe or Japanese Naval colors...


Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Bill J.
 

Eric, that is an important post!

I've tried on several occasions to dullcoat a car with a rattle can.  It has never worked to my satisfaction.  Cans 'sneeze' on liquid in too-large drops.  Only an airbrush gives small enough droplets.

More, I've had better experiences with the old faves than the new ones.  Maybe it's experience, maybe it's product.

Thanks for your blog,

Bill Jolitz


Brian Carlson
 

Tamiya from spray cans is just fine and quicker than getting out an airbrush for one car. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 14, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Bill J. via groups.io <jolitzwr@...> wrote:

Eric, that is an important post!

I've tried on several occasions to dullcoat a car with a rattle can.  It has never worked to my satisfaction.  Cans 'sneeze' on liquid in too-large drops.  Only an airbrush gives small enough droplets.

More, I've had better experiences with the old faves than the new ones.  Maybe it's experience, maybe it's product.

Thanks for your blog,

Bill Jolitz


John Monrad
 

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:45 AM, Craig Zeni wrote:
I've been trying to get some of their paint, with very limited success. The paint seems to be sold in sets and i don't really need a variety of Luftwaffe or Japanese Naval colors... 
Spruebrothers carries Hataka individual Orange Line (lacquer) colors in 17ml bottles.

John Monrad


Scott
 

I have switched to Mr Hobby super clear flat.  It is by far the best of the rattle can flats I have used.  Doesn't get very frosty at all.  It looks like it goes on heavy but it really evaporates and shrinks back.  It does stink really bad and has to be sprayed outside.  Also you want to leave it in the garage or someplace for a while as it dries so you don't stink up the inside.

Ebay link to Mr Hobby Super Clear Flat.

Scott McDonald 


Bob Chaparro
 

As far as rattle cans go, I'm with Nelson on this: Tamiya and sometimes Krylon. Tamiya gives a finer spray compared to Dullcote and Model Masters.
The formula for Dullcote apparently was altered a few years ago and the current formula just doesn't seem to produce the same quality finish or as much "tooth" for weathering.
One trick I used to be able to do with Dullcote was to spray gray cement hoppers with it and then spray 70 percent isopropyl alcohol on the hopper a few minutes later. When dry this produced a nice chalky base from which to do further weathering. This no longer is possible.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Bob and List Members,
 
Bob wrote: “One trick I used to be able to do with Dullcote was to spray gray cement hoppers with it and then spray 70 percent isopropyl alcohol on the hopper a few minutes later. When dry this produced a nice chalky base from which to do further weathering. This no longer is possible.”
 
To which I say – thank goodness this is no longer possible! I often use isopropyl alcohol when applying weathering watercolor paints, and the isopropyl alcohol used to react with Dullcote and yield a chalky colored finish, even when I allowed time for a long-term curing of the Dullcote for weeks. This is typically what I did NOT want for most freight cars. While I agree it can be an asset in some specialized cases, it was typically a problem for me.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:25 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can
 
As far as rattle cans go, I'm with Nelson on this: Tamiya and sometimes Krylon. Tamiya gives a finer spray compared to Dullcote and Model Masters.
The formula for Dullcote apparently was altered a few years ago and the current formula just doesn't seem to produce the same quality finish or as much "tooth" for weathering.
One trick I used to be able to do with Dullcote was to spray gray cement hoppers with it and then spray 70 percent isopropyl alcohol on the hopper a few minutes later. When dry this produced a nice chalky base from which to do further weathering. This no longer is possible.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Benjamin Hom
 

Claus Schlund wrote:
"To which I say – thank goodness this is no longer possible! I often use isopropyl alcohol when applying weathering watercolor paints, and the isopropyl alcohol used to react with Dullcote and yield a chalky colored finish, even when I allowed time for a long-term curing of the Dullcote for weeks. This is typically what I did NOT want for most freight cars. While I agree it can be an asset in some specialized cases, it was typically a problem for me."

You do realize this process is controllable, right?  Mike Rose wrote several articles and filmed how-to videos on how to use this effect on more recent rolling stock, showing how to both apply and reverse the effect.

Ben Hom 


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

HI Ben,
 
Thanks for informing me, I will have a look
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

From: Benjamin Hom
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can
 
Claus Schlund wrote:
"To which I say – thank goodness this is no longer possible! I often use isopropyl alcohol when applying weathering watercolor paints, and the isopropyl alcohol used to react with Dullcote and yield a chalky colored finish, even when I allowed time for a long-term curing of the Dullcote for weeks. This is typically what I did NOT want for most freight cars. While I agree it can be an asset in some specialized cases, it was typically a problem for me."

You do realize this process is controllable, right?  Mike Rose wrote several articles and filmed how-to videos on how to use this effect on more recent rolling stock, showing how to both apply and reverse the effect.
 
Ben Hom


Ken Adams
 

One good thing from this discussion, I will be exploring Spruebrothers as another option for tools and paints. 

We may not realize how much we have in common with the military/aircraft model hobbies. 

I am still a big Tamiya fan as apartment/condo style living does not allow for air brushing and temporary (when the wind is right) set ups for an air brush on the balcony have not worked for me.  Fine nozzles, close up spraying and a cut up cardboard box wind break have become an option that works. Then again I just used the old standby "Future" for gloss surface for decal application and Tamiya clear matte for the subsequent flat overcoat.


--
Ken Adams

Modeling SP Early 1950's in the Walnut Creak...


Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

As far as rattle cans go, I'm with Nelson on this: Tamiya and sometimes Krylon. Tamiya gives a finer spray compared to Dullcote and Model Masters.

    Totally true about Tamiya. I am genuinely impressed with their nozzles. Fine spray, limited spread (you don't paint your hands and the surroundings), no blurts. And every can is as good. None of which is true with Testors.

Tony Thompson




Mark Rossiter
 

I found out the hard way what apparently many other modelers already knew – using an alcohol/India ink solution over a freight car (or structure) previously sprayed with Dullcoat  would cause a reaction with the talc powder suspended in the Dullcoat which would result in the chalking/blushing mentioned.  I thought I had ruined a model I spent months on until it was pointed out that another coat of Dullcoat or Glosscoat would eliminate the problem.  Thankfully it was true.

 

Mark Rossiter