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Photo: PRR Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Boxcar

A photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

I'm guessing the car number is 15466 but I'll let you folks with better monitors decipher the number.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Eric Hansmann
 

Well, they got two letters correct in the description. This is one of the USRA boxcars assigned to the Pennsy. The car number if 45466 falls in with 2650 cars built by AC&F. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:33 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Photo: PRR Boxcar

A photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

I'm guessing the car number is 15466 but I'll let you folks with better monitors decipher the number.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Photo: PRR Boxcar

A photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363 

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

I'm guessing the car number is 15466 but I'll let you folks with better monitors decipher the number."

PRR 45466, Class X26, from PRR 44001-46725.  Total of 9900 cars spread across multiple series due to initial assignment to Lines East, Lines West, and subsidiaries.  This car exhibits mid-1930s upgrades, including upgraded roof, doors, and truss reinforcements.


Ben Hom 


Dave Parker
 

And, not exactly a new find since there is a link below to the very same photo over on the old steamerafreightcars.com site.

Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Bruce Smith
 

And as far as I know, absolutely nothing to do with any sort of troop car.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:40 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Photo: PRR Boxcar

A photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363 

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

I'm guessing the car number is 15466 but I'll let you folks with better monitors decipher the number."

PRR 45466, Class X26, from PRR 44001-46725.  Total of 9900 cars spread across multiple series due to initial assignment to Lines East, Lines West, and subsidiaries.  This car exhibits mid-1930s upgrades, including upgraded roof, doors, and truss reinforcements.


Ben Hom 



Brian Carlson
 

Who writes these captions?  Also, I find it odd that the Illinois Library system is reposting a photo that is on the steam era freight cars website. Looking back at the original post I don’t see Illinois having any claim to the photo ??? 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Well, they got two letters correct in the description. This is one of the USRA boxcars assigned to the Pennsy. The car number if 45466 falls in with 2650 cars built by AC&F. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:33 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Photo: PRR Boxcar

A photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

I'm guessing the car number is 15466 but I'll let you folks with better monitors decipher the number.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: PRR BoxcarA photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

      As is very often true, museums and archives really have no idea what they are talking about (the caption may well have been written by an intern or volunteer). It's obviously a USRA box car and no doubt the many PRR-kknowledgeable folks on this list will have a LOT to say <g>.

Tony Thompson



Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tony,

You are so right about archivists and cutlines. The sad thing is that if you write them to correct something like this, your input is usually ignored. Perhaps understandable, since most museums and archives are understaffed and underfunded, but it is their mission to preserve and present information correctly.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:58 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: PRR BoxcarA photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

      As is very often true, museums and archives really have no idea what they are talking about (the caption may well have been written by an intern or volunteer). It's obviously a USRA box car and no doubt the many PRR-kknowledgeable folks on this list will have a LOT to say <g>.

Tony Thompson



Bob Chaparro
 

Actually, I have had very good responses from the several photo archives I have worked with.
These include USC, County of Los Angeles Library, City of Los Angeles Library and several Southern California historical societies.
The organizations I have found very non-responsive are smaller museums around the country, and that probably is a staffing issue as Garth noted. I am a member of the Board of the Hemet Heritage Foundation, which operates the Hemet Museum in the old Santa Fe Depot. Staffing certainly is an issue for us as we are an all volunteer organization.
I also have had some good luck correcting misleading or erroneous narratives published by various historical societies. But sometimes not. I found a horribly wrong narrative on-line published by a historical society in the California Central Valley. The narrative concerned the citrus industry and the transportation of oranges, something I do have a little knowledge of. It was so out of wack I could not suggest edits so I suggested to the organization's president that the whole article be pulled. His response was, "We are aware the Mrs. ______ sometimes is inaccurate in her writings but she is the town's historian and prominent local figure so no one wants to upset her". 
I wonder how often that is the case?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bob,

I have tried a couple of times to correct misinformation and been ignored. I suspect they didn't know me from Adam, and didn't want to take the time verifying my corrections. Now I just grimace and move on.

I was very successful correcting a badly mislabeled photo in the UVA Special Collections and Archives, but I had worked with many of the librarians in that section and had done several special cataloging projects for them. They fixed the problem immediately.

I have also been ignored by at least two local California historical societies/museums to which I offered donations of really good materials appropriate to their collections. Curiously, I was a member of one of these groups, and my offer was ignored three times (another railroad museum gratefully took the material almost immediately). Several other historical societies have accepted my donations, but then didn't have the grace to thank me for the materials. In fairness, I must say I was well treated by many other groups. It's been a mixed bag. And as for acknowledgement of donations, I would rather have the material preserved, lack of thanks not withstanding.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:48 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Actually, I have had very good responses from the several photo archives I have worked with.
These include USC, County of Los Angeles Library, City of Los Angeles Library and several Southern California historical societies.
The organizations I have found very non-responsive are smaller museums around the country, and that probably is a staffing issue as Garth noted. I am a member of the Board of the Hemet Heritage Foundation, which operates the Hemet Museum in the old Santa Fe Depot. Staffing certainly is an issue for us as we are an all volunteer organization.
I also have had some good luck correcting misleading or erroneous narratives published by various historical societies. But sometimes not. I found a horribly wrong narrative on-line published by a historical society in the California Central Valley. The narrative concerned the citrus industry and the transportation of oranges, something I do have a little knowledge of. It was so out of wack I could not suggest edits so I suggested to the organization's president that the whole article be pulled. His response was, "We are aware the Mrs. ______ sometimes is inaccurate in her writings but she is the town's historian and prominent local figure so no one wants to upset her". 
I wonder how often that is the case?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Bill Welch
 

This photo is from a collection of about 120 photos made in the Wash. DC area in the postwar period, and owned by a person in the DC area. In the early 1990's I wrote the late Richard Hendrickson about collecting photos and in addition to the Ernest Stefan and Harold "Dusty" Miller collections at the NMRA this collection was on his suggestion list. There were other collections to of course but these have always stood out as wonderful resources.

I think the photos were made by Charles Wales. I bought the entire list of 4x5 prints and in theory they are still available. The NMRA has gone "Dark" regarding the Miller and Stafan Collection and NMRA members seem uninterested. 

Bill Welch

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 02:13 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
I have tried a couple of times to correct misinformation and been ignored. I suspect they didn't know me from Adam, and didn't want to take the time verifying my corrections.
You've hit the nail on the head. The libraries that hold these images really know very little about them, and cataloging is typically work for interns. The caption is really just a description for the catalog, and should only be a general description of what the image shows, plus any information that was written on the print or negative... and that's where the problem comes in... if someone has written erroneous information on the photo, it is treated as primary source information. The person writing the descriptions really isn't competent to make a judgement. The descriptions aren't intended to educate, but simply allow the image to be found by scholars (and authors) who can then include it in a better researched work. The danger in allowing the description to be changed is that some of the primary source data may be lost and replaced with information that is also erroneous. Trying to get an institution to change a catalog description is like trying to correct erroneous information on the internet.  There are better uses for one's time.

Dennis Storzek

Tim O'Connor
 

LOL !! :-D

But, if you search for "boxcar" there are a number of VERY nice box car photos

http://www.idaillinois.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=pshs&CISOPTR=22222&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=2088&DMHEIGHT=1638

Tim O'Connor

On 4/22/2020 2:33 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: PRR Boxcar

A photo for the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16614coll41/id/23/rec/363

Description: "Photo of an XM type boxcar, an American Railroad Administration model that was used as the basis for the second type of Pullman troop transport."

I'm guessing the car number is 15466 but I'll let you folks with better monitors decipher the number.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Tim O'Connor
 


Anyone recognize the car with the dark murphy end (black?) and light colored side
that the PRR X26 is coupled to? It could be a USRA double sheathed rebuild.

http://www.idaillinois.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p16614coll41&CISOPTR=23&action=2&DMSCALE=200&DMWIDTH=1000&DMHEIGHT=1018&DMX=2500

Tim O'


On 4/23/2020 6:39 AM, Bill Welch wrote:

This photo is from a collection of about 120 photos made in the Wash. DC area in the postwar period, and owned by a person in the DC area. In the early 1990's I wrote the late Richard Hendrickson about collecting photos and in addition to the Ernest Stefan and Harold "Dusty" Miller collections at the NMRA this collection was on his suggestion list. There were other collections to of course but these have always stood out as wonderful resources.

I think the photos were made by Charles Wales. I bought the entire list of 4x5 prints and in theory they are still available. The NMRA has gone "Dark" regarding the Miller and Stafan Collection and NMRA members seem uninterested. 

Bill Welch

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Eric Hansmann
 

But that car doesn’t have the right 5/5/5 Murphy end for a USRA car. It’s possibly a USRA clone rebuilt with steel sides since a 7/8 Murphy end was used on some of those cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:41 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Boxcar

 


Anyone recognize the car with the dark murphy end (black?) and light colored side
that the PRR X26 is coupled to? It could be a USRA double sheathed rebuild.

http://www.idaillinois.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p16614coll41&CISOPTR=23&action=2&DMSCALE=200&DMWIDTH=1000&DMHEIGHT=1018&DMX=2500

Tim O'


On 4/23/2020 6:39 AM, Bill Welch wrote:

This photo is from a collection of about 120 photos made in the Wash. DC area in the postwar period, and owned by a person in the DC area. In the early 1990's I wrote the late Richard Hendrickson about collecting photos and in addition to the Ernest Stefan and Harold "Dusty" Miller collections at the NMRA this collection was on his suggestion list. There were other collections to of course but these have always stood out as wonderful resources.

I think the photos were made by Charles Wales. I bought the entire list of 4x5 prints and in theory they are still available. The NMRA has gone "Dark" regarding the Miller and Stafan Collection and NMRA members seem uninterested. 

Bill Welch


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    More likely a USRA clone from the mid-1920's constructed with 7 over 8 rib ends that was
rebuilt in the 1930's with a 3 rib extension added to the top to increase the cubic capacity.

My best, Don Valentine

Bob Chaparro
 

I should add the Kansas State Historical Society also was very responsive to my suggested corrections and made the changes within days.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

The other problem is that libraries, especially the academic ones, are totally fixated on “the humanities” with an emphasis on social justice and could care less about business, technical, engineering, financial, etc.. aspects of history.

Northwestern University has/had a Transportation Library but I have seen suburban public libraries with a better selection of post 1930 publications.   The historic volumes are in a demoralized state in basement stacks and it is obvious that there hasn’t been an interested party in charge of the collection for a half century or more.   I am sure the same is true for some of the former great collections elsewhere like the Crerar, now at University of Chicago, and the Degolyer at Southern Methodist. 

The Linda Hall Library (thanks to a large grant to have historic railroad journals digitized) and Google are bright spots digitally and the Barringer Library at St. Louis Mercantile Library and California Railroad Museum for curating collections and making them available.

The comment about local historical societies is spot on….cherished local memory is more important than documented facts all too often.

Charlie Vlk

Andy Carlson
 

California's Cal Poly University (San Luis Obispo) about 4 years ago decided that a paper library was unwanted in this digital age. With a collection of 1000's of technical publications, it took weeks to dumpster the paper. I have a friend who worked at the university who saved some stuff but the majority went to the land fill. I probably don't need to say what I feel about this policy. Lots of RR subjects.
-Andy Carlson  Ojai CA

On Thursday, April 23, 2020, 10:50:04 AM PDT, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:


All-

The other problem is that libraries, especially the academic ones, are totally fixated on “the humanities” with an emphasis on social justice and could care less about business, technical, engineering, financial, etc.. aspects of history.

Northwestern University has/had a Transportation Library but I have seen suburban public libraries with a better selection of post 1930 publications.   The historic volumes are in a demoralized state in basement stacks and it is obvious that there hasn’t been an interested party in charge of the collection for a half century or more.   I am sure the same is true for some of the former great collections elsewhere like the Crerar, now at University of Chicago, and the Degolyer at Southern Methodist. 

The Linda Hall Library (thanks to a large grant to have historic railroad journals digitized) and Google are bright spots digitally and the Barringer Library at St. Louis Mercantile Library and California Railroad Museum for curating collections and making them available.

The comment about local historical societies is spot on….cherished local memory is more important than documented facts all too often.

Charlie Vlk

_._,_._,_

maynard stowe
 

Andy,
A problem is that research libraries are not necessarily archives. And if you think the disposal of interesting railroad related material is recent, I’ll tell you about my first summer job in high school in 1965. I dusted all the books in the U Conn law library. In there there were Connecticut Railroad Commission reports from the 1870s to the1920s; beautifully bound, printed in four colors and with exquisite fold-out maps. Later that summer I found them in a dumpster out back. Why I didn’t take them home I don’t know, but they went to the dump.

Maynard Stowe

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