Photo: WP Boxcar 20807


Bob Chaparro
 
Edited

Photos: WP Boxcar 20807

1951 builder's photos from the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/pshs/id/21885/rec/170

There is an additional photo referenced to the right of the photo box.

Silver car with "Rides Like A Feather" logo.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: WP Boxcar 20807A 1951 builder's photo from the Illinois Digital Archives:

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/pshs/id/21885/rec/170

Silver car with "Rides Like A Feather" logo.


    Ah, yes, the famous silver "feather" cars. There must be several thousand models in existence for every car that was on the prototype.

Tony Thompson




Fred Jansz
 

Yes, and not one of them is 100% prototipical...
Asked Kadee several times , but was ignored as usual.
Fred Jansz


Brian Carlson
 

Kadee has stated several times are not doing those cars and the other cars with the experimental features because they’d have to tool a new underframe. Maybe in time they will change their mind.

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 24, 2020, at 3:56 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Yes, and not one of them is 100% prototipical...
Asked Kadee several times , but was ignored as usual.
Fred Jansz


Fred Jansz
 

Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz


Brian Carlson
 

Shoot. That’s what I get for posting before I’m fully awake. Fred you’re right these just had compartmentizers. I got them confused with the 1954 cars with the cushion under frame. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz


Tim O'Connor
 

You're correct, Fred - standard PS-1 underframe. Chrysler trucks.

Microscale makes decals. Get out the airbrush ! :-)

Ross Dando makes the shock absorber part in resin for the Chrysler trucks.

On 4/24/2020 9:08 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Bob Webber
 

The fun part is - there were 7 variations of WP paint & lettering rendered for these.   And...the paint & lettering designs were done by the Passenger Car department, not freight (as "normal" efforts were.  

This is likely because most freight cars were rendered by the railroad - they didn't give the manufacturer an option in the design. 

In this case, there is
  • "Western Pacific Worthy Progressive" (with the W & P used once in a stacked slogan)- style B
  • "Floats Like a Feather" (feather on right side) - Style A
  • "Worthy Progressive" on the left and a LARGE WP herald on the right - Style E
  • A stripe & feather - with only reporting marks - no other wording - Style D
  • A stripe, no feather, just reporting marks - Style F
  • "Floats Like a Feather - with a LARGE feather over both left & Right sides - Style C - Closest to the photo (note slogan difference)
  • "Floats Like A Feather" - with a LARGE feather, and "Western Pacific in said feather - Style G (reporting marks on the right)

All rendered by the Engineering Department; Color & Design Division; Passenger Car Division; Pullman-Standard Car Manufacturing Co.

Unfortunately - the images were b/w photos of what are likely color drawings - there is no way to really tell which is freight car red, orange, aluminum, aluminum with orange stripe, etc. 

One of these days, I'll have to look for the drawings C&D 7-3411-51

And..yes, Tony - a lot - almost as many as Overnight SP cars, Big Boys, Fs, B&O docksiders, AT&SF boxcars & cabooses, etc. 


At 08:08 AM 4/24/2020, Fred Jansz wrote:
Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz

Bob Webber


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Fred and friends,

I think you are correct. The cars first 20 cars like this were 20801-20820, from series 20801-21400, and were equipped by the factory with Pullman Compartmentizer dividers and Chrysler FR-5 trucks when delivered in 1951. They might have been a test, but were certainly not experimental. The WP was noted for buying small lots of specialty cars, often being among the first in line for innovations that would help them hold onto their customers. Because the railroad skirted the edge of insolvency so often, they didn't have money for a big-ticket splurges (the California Zephyr being a major exception), and the lots of innovative cars were often small.

Within a few months in 1952 the cars were renumbered into their own series 19501-19520. Twenty-two additional cars were drawn at random from the remainder of the original series (20821-21400) and returned to Pullman for conversion to Compartmentizers. These cars, 19521-19542, were then identical to the originals, except they had black ends, since the WP declined the expense of having the existing black car cement removed. Some had black car cement on their roofs, while others did not. AFAIK, these cars kept their ASF A-3 trucks.

The odd-ball in the lot, and certainly an experiment, was 19537, which was equipped with Timken tapered roller bearings. It had an orange Timken herald in the upper right corner. This car was something of a showboat and was exhibited at the California State Fair, probably in 1953, and likely other cities the WP served. This car had black ends, but a silver roof with a black Morton running board. The bearing caps were also silver.

The silver paint became an embarrassment when it began to weather, so around 1957 the WP repainted the whole class with into FCR with a medium-sized orange feather on the right hand side panel and the "Rides like a Feather" slogan in yellow script in the lower right corner. On the left side, Western Pacific in yellow was spelled out in their version of railroad roman. This was a take on their 1955 lettering, which usually had "Feather River Route" in Futura to the right of the doors. The orange feather was also applied to at least two other series of boxcars equipped with various load restraining devices. Champ sold a lot of decals for this paint scheme, but there probably were less than 100 cars in both 40 and 50-foot lengths that carried this lettering.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:08 AM Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:
Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz


Fred Jansz
 

Thank you for saving my skin Tim.

ASM makes a very nice brass Chrysler truck, which is a steal especially for your wallet.

Now for completeness:

- 1951: WP 20801-20820; all silver, orange feather, slogan
- 1952: renumbered into 19501-19520

- 1951: WP 20821-21400; red w. black ends & roof
- 1952: 22 random cars renumbered into 19521-19542 and repainted; black ends & rood, silver sides w. orange feather & slogan

- May 1953: WP 19537 rebuilt by Pullman and fitted with Timken roller bearing trucks; silver roof & sides, black ends, 'roller freight' logo.

This last car was initiated a couple of years ago by Eric Werner (partly with my info) and built by Intermountain.
However, the car doesn't have the roller bearing trucks, which were supposed to be supplied by Rapido.

My question why Kadee never did the silver WP car with the feather is probably answered by the fact that there were no Chrysler trucks available.

Take care, cheers,
Fred Jansz


Fred Jansz
 

Thanks for (super)detailed info Garth.
Fred Jansz


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Brian and Friends,

AFAIK, besides 19537, the only other experimental cars on the WP were two 40' PS-1s with 6' doors, numbered 1952-1953. These had two versions of Pullman's early cushioned underframe. These were leased by the WP circa 1952 for in-service testing (they don't show in Ed Hawkins' list of PS-1 boxcars, probably because they were built on a Pullman work order to their own account rather than a sales order). They were painted orange with a medium-silver feather to the right of the door (MDC once did this scheme on their rather horrid 40' boxcar). Eventually the WP bought the two cars. One was wrecked, but the other lasted through the 1960s. 

The 1954 cars you mentioned were probably not experiments. These were 40' PS-1s with 8' doors, Compartmentizers and cushioned underframes, numbered 1961-1970. They were painted orange with the huge silver feather, basically a reversal of the silver cars, and apparently had black ends and roofs. In 1959 the cars received DF-2 restrainers, and were repainted into the medium orange feather scheme that that 19501-19542 wore after 1957.

One reason these and the 19501-series were not repeated was that in late 1954 the WP was committed to 50' boxcars. The only other 40' boxcars the WP purchased were AC&F-built 3421-3422, with DF-2 loaders and 8' doors delivered in 1960. These were specifically built for appliance loading out of Galesburg, Illinois.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:05 AM Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Shoot. That’s what I get for posting before I’m fully awake. Fred you’re right these just had compartmentizers. I got them confused with the 1954 cars with the cushion under frame. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz


Richard Townsend
 

Who is ASM?


On Apr 24, 2020, at 10:52 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Thank you for saving my skin Tim.

ASM makes a very nice brass Chrysler truck, which is a steal especially for your wallet.

Now for completeness:

- 1951: WP 20801-20820; all silver, orange feather, slogan
- 1952: renumbered into 19501-19520

- 1951: WP 20821-21400; red w. black ends & roof
- 1952: 22 random cars renumbered into 19521-19542 and repainted; black ends & rood, silver sides w. orange feather & slogan

- May 1953: WP 19537 rebuilt by Pullman and fitted with Timken roller bearing trucks; silver roof & sides, black ends, 'roller freight' logo.

This last car was initiated a couple of years ago by Eric Werner (partly with my info) and built by Intermountain.
However, the car doesn't have the roller bearing trucks, which were supposed to be supplied by Rapido.

My question why Kadee never did the silver WP car with the feather is probably answered by the fact that there were no Chrysler trucks available.

Take care, cheers,
Fred Jansz
<roller freight wp.jpg>


Fred Jansz
 


Fred Jansz
 

ERic Werner's RR Innovations (& Intermountain) did the three 1954 orange cars: 1963, 1965 and 1970. These are rare birds now.
Fred Jansz


Tim O'Connor
 


Thank you Garth for all of that background information ! :-)



On 4/24/2020 1:35 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Fred and friends,

I think you are correct. The cars first 20 cars like this were 20801-20820, from series 20801-21400, and were equipped by the factory with Pullman Compartmentizer dividers and Chrysler FR-5 trucks when delivered in 1951. They might have been a test, but were certainly not experimental. The WP was noted for buying small lots of specialty cars, often being among the first in line for innovations that would help them hold onto their customers. Because the railroad skirted the edge of insolvency so often, they didn't have money for a big-ticket splurges (the California Zephyr being a major exception), and the lots of innovative cars were often small.

Within a few months in 1952 the cars were renumbered into their own series 19501-19520. Twenty-two additional cars were drawn at random from the remainder of the original series (20821-21400) and returned to Pullman for conversion to Compartmentizers. These cars, 19521-19542, were then identical to the originals, except they had black ends, since the WP declined the expense of having the existing black car cement removed. Some had black car cement on their roofs, while others did not. AFAIK, these cars kept their ASF A-3 trucks.

The odd-ball in the lot, and certainly an experiment, was 19537, which was equipped with Timken tapered roller bearings. It had an orange Timken herald in the upper right corner. This car was something of a showboat and was exhibited at the California State Fair, probably in 1953, and likely other cities the WP served. This car had black ends, but a silver roof with a black Morton running board. The bearing caps were also silver.

The silver paint became an embarrassment when it began to weather, so around 1957 the WP repainted the whole class with into FCR with a medium-sized orange feather on the right hand side panel and the "Rides like a Feather" slogan in yellow script in the lower right corner. On the left side, Western Pacific in yellow was spelled out in their version of railroad roman. This was a take on their 1955 lettering, which usually had "Feather River Route" in Futura to the right of the doors. The orange feather was also applied to at least two other series of boxcars equipped with various load restraining devices. Champ sold a lot of decals for this paint scheme, but there probably were less than 100 cars in both 40 and 50-foot lengths that carried this lettering.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:08 AM Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:
Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


I faked the underframe - but the decals more than made up for it in difficulty :-D



On 4/24/2020 2:01 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Brian and Friends,

AFAIK, besides 19537, the only other experimental cars on the WP were two 40' PS-1s with 6' doors, numbered 1952-1953. These had two versions of Pullman's early cushioned underframe. These were leased by the WP circa 1952 for in-service testing (they don't show in Ed Hawkins' list of PS-1 boxcars, probably because they were built on a Pullman work order to their own account rather than a sales order). They were painted orange with a medium-silver feather to the right of the door (MDC once did this scheme on their rather horrid 40' boxcar). Eventually the WP bought the two cars. One was wrecked, but the other lasted through the 1960s. 

The 1954 cars you mentioned were probably not experiments. These were 40' PS-1s with 8' doors, Compartmentizers and cushioned underframes, numbered 1961-1970. They were painted orange with the huge silver feather, basically a reversal of the silver cars, and apparently had black ends and roofs. In 1959 the cars received DF-2 restrainers, and were repainted into the medium orange feather scheme that that 19501-19542 wore after 1957.

One reason these and the 19501-series were not repeated was that in late 1954 the WP was committed to 50' boxcars. The only other 40' boxcars the WP purchased were AC&F-built 3421-3422, with DF-2 loaders and 8' doors delivered in 1960. These were specifically built for appliance loading out of Galesburg, Illinois.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:05 AM Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Shoot. That’s what I get for posting before I’m fully awake. Fred you’re right these just had compartmentizers. I got them confused with the 1954 cars with the cushion under frame. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Didn't know this was an experimental car.
As far as I know WP 20801-20820 was a regular 1951 PS-1 order with an experimental WP paint scheme.
Fred Jansz


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts