LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars


Schuyler Larrabee
 

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler


Tim O'Connor
 


this might help :-)

( photo of LNE 8311 replacement roof - car towards top of the photo )


On 4/29/2020 6:05 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Benjamin Hom
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s."

Richard's article cites late 1940s as the beginning of roof replacements, so diagonal panel roof if you're doing one of the ARA cars with the 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker distance.

 
"I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .
 
Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.
 
If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same."

This is why Ted's kit was so valuable as the diagonal panel roofs of the LNE and MEC cars are sized to fit these narrower cars.  You can't take a roof from a 40 ft postwar AAR boxcar and narrow it via splitting it down the center as the panels no longer line up.  An alternate approach might be to take a 50 ft diagonal panel roof and shorten it as they're slightly narrower, but this might still be too wide.


Ben Hom  


Todd Sullivan
 

Hmmm, never thought about the roof panels not lining up after narrowing the roof.

Such a replacement roof (40ft, narrow, overhanging eaves) would also be valuable for modeling NYC System 40ft USRA steel boxcars with replacement roofs.  I have several kits that I should start building sometime soon, and many of these cars had replacement roofs by 1950, according to photos.  Also, did similar USRA steel boxcars on the DL&W get reroofed?

I think the market for such a roof might be bigger than just LNE and MEC cars. 

Todd Sullivan


Richard Townsend
 

Did Train Miniature by any chance tool a diagonal panel roof? Its cars were narrower than most and might be a source for a narrow roof, if they made one.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Apr 29, 2020 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars


this might help :-)

( photo of LNE 8311 replacement roof - car towards top of the photo )


On 4/29/2020 6:05 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.
 
I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .
 
Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.
 
If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.
 
Thanks
 
Schuyler


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Benjamin Hom
 

Richard Townsend asked:
"Did Train Miniature by any chance tool a diagonal panel roof?"

No.

Ben Hom

_._,_._,_


Allan Smith
 


There is an article by Chuck Killian in the December 2005 RMC on upgrading an AAR 1923 boxcar for the L&NE.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 04:06:27 PM PDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Richard Townsend asked:
"Did Train Miniature by any chance tool a diagonal panel roof?"

No.

Ben Hom


Bill Welch
 

Ben Hom wrote: "This is why Ted's kit was so valuable as the diagonal panel roofs of the LNE and MEC cars are sized to fit these narrower cars.  You can't take a roof from a 40 ft postwar AAR boxcar and narrow it via splitting it down the center as the panels no longer line up.  An alternate approach might be to take a 50 ft diagonal panel roof and shorten it as they're slightly narrower, but this might still be too wide."

With Branchline's permission I used their rectangular and diagonal paneled roofs to make the MEC and LNE roof patterns for the Speedwitch conversion kits and while the panels of the diagonal paneled roof do not line up exactly they are very close and that area is covered by the running board anyway so someone has to look very closely to see the mis-match.

Bill Welch


O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks a lot Bill, learned a lot yesterday and more today 
Fenton 


On Apr 30, 2020, at 6:10 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Ben Hom wrote: "This is why Ted's kit was so valuable as the diagonal panel roofs of the LNE and MEC cars are sized to fit these narrower cars.  You can't take a roof from a 40 ft postwar AAR boxcar and narrow it via splitting it down the center as the panels no longer line up.  An alternate approach might be to take a 50 ft diagonal panel roof and shorten it as they're slightly narrower, but this might still be too wide."

With Branchline's permission I used their rectangular and diagonal paneled roofs to make the MEC and LNE roof patterns for the Speedwitch conversion kits and while the panels of the diagonal paneled roof do not line up exactly they are very close and that area is covered by the running board anyway so someone has to look very closely to see the mis-match.

Bill Welch


Bill Welch
 

With Branchline's permission I used their rectangular and diagonal paneled roofs to make the MEC and LNE roof patterns for the Speedwitch conversion kits and while the panels of the diagonal paneled roof do not line up exactly they are very close and that area is covered by the running board anyway so someone has to look very closely to see the mis-match.

Bill Welch
To clarify the outer edges of the diagonal panels line up exactly and indeed I used the outer edges to get each half aligned before joining them. The interior edges of the diagonal are slightly misaligned.

Bill Welch


O Fenton Wells
 

Did you ever find a roof for this car?  I have an extra flat steel roof(PRR X 29 style) let me know if you need it
Fenton

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Fenton, for a) remembering this email of mine, more than two months later, and b) the offer to share your stock of “stuff.”  I’d love to have the roof to make that kit complete, but I still have a nagging question about when the roofs were replaced.  PROBABLY someone answered that question, but of course, I have completely forgotten what the answer was.  In any event I can always weather the roof substantially if it turns out it should have a newer roof and explain that this particular car has been AWOL from the LNE shops . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:12 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Did you ever find a roof for this car?  I have an extra flat steel roof(PRR X 29 style) let me know if you need it

Fenton

 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Bill Welch
 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Bill as I want to do that as well.
Fenton

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:21 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


O Fenton Wells
 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Schuyler Larrabee
 

I’m not being picky, Fenton!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 3:02 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Tim O'Connor
 


Looks spot on to me !


On 7/16/2020 3:02 PM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts