Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


mopacfirst
 

These are interesting photos.  In one, the car is marked Homestead Works, which is a bit east of Utah.  (perhaps the library acquired them not as part of a local history project.)

And the product in the laydown yard, where the car is spotted, looks more like wire or bar to me.  The individuals linking hands in front of the car look a bit small to be working in a steel yard, or lumber yard as the case may be.

Ron Merrick


CJ Riley
 

The references I have don’t show Utah operations for Carnegie Steel. Perhaps it’s like the local iron works in Irondale (near Port Townsend) WA that I was told was owned by Carnegie.Research on the company in the local library indicated this was not true. Could CSCO be a different company?




Eric Hansmann
 

Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


mopacfirst
 

This collection was from a Utah photographer, so we can infer the photos were taken somewhere around there.  https://www.questia.com/magazine/1P3-94922271/a-photographic-saga-utah-and-the-shipler-family 

The CSCO car appears to have proper ARA/MCB lettering to be suitable for interchange, so it may well have delivered a load of bar from Pittsburgh to this laydown yard.  It's not obvious if this is deformed rebar, or just long rolled bar.  Some of it might even be a bit shiny.  At all events, it's not lumber and it doesn't appear to me to be a labor dispute, maybe more like 'look how long this car is'.  But anything is possible if a researcher applies text that was not on the original artifact.

Ron Merrick


CJ Riley
 


It was reported there is a Homestead in Utah where the photo was apparently taken.



Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I have some more info on the 65 foot gondola CSCO 534... listed under Carnegie Steel Company, it is part of series 526-537 in the Dec 1930 ORER.
 
See info at the link below.
 
 
In particular, “Note A” references these cars and sez “Cars in series 526 to 537 marked C. S. Co., Homestead Works”. The notes further indicate “Make separate reports for cars marked ‘C. S. Co., Homestead Works’ to Wm. Donald, Auditor, Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. June 1930”
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Claus Schlund
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Oh, forgot to mention, the fact that these are the only gondolas listed under Carnegie Steel in this ORER makes me think they may have been intended to be interchanged and used for mainline service, not just for in-plant service.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi List Members,
 
I have some more info on the 65 foot gondola CSCO 534... listed under Carnegie Steel Company, it is part of series 526-537 in the Dec 1930 ORER.
 
See info at the link below.
 
 
In particular, “Note A” references these cars and sez “Cars in series 526 to 537 marked C. S. Co., Homestead Works”. The notes further indicate “Make separate reports for cars marked ‘C. S. Co., Homestead Works’ to Wm. Donald, Auditor, Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. June 1930”
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Claus Schlund
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


 

Hello All,

I seriously doubt that this gon was used in interchange.

One thing that no one has pointed out, this gon does not comply with the safety appliance act. No ladders on right end
and left end grabs are insufficient.

Any others see the same thing?

Dan Smith


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Dan and List Members,
 
Dan wrote: “No ladders on right end and left end grabs are insufficient”
 
These gons were built in the late 1920s. What the safety requirements were at the time regarding right side ladders and end grabs, I cannot say.
 
The cars are classified as ARA class GM in the ORER, meaning a mill gon with drop ends. I don’t know how the drop end feature may impact the presence (or lack thereof) of end grabs
 
Others out there have any thoughts on this?
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

From: Dan Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hello All,

I seriously doubt that this gon was used in interchange.

One thing that no one has pointed out, this gon does not comply with the safety appliance act. No ladders on right end
and left end grabs are insufficient.

Any others see the same thing?

Dan Smith


Eric Hansmann
 

Two grabs on the left end of the car were not a requirement until 1932-33. New and newly rebuilt cars received the two grabs. There are freight cars that made it into the 1940s with only one grab on the left end.  

The other end may seem odd with only one grab but the deep end sill was considered a step, so a grab between the sill step and the one on the car side may not have been required.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On May 3, 2020 at 5:06 PM "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Dan and List Members,

Dan wrote: “No ladders on right end and left end grabs are insufficient”

These gons were built in the late 1920s. What the safety requirements were at the time regarding right side ladders and end grabs, I cannot say.

The cars are classified as ARA class GM in the ORER, meaning a mill gon with drop ends. I don’t know how the drop end feature may impact the presence (or lack thereof) of end grabs

Others out there have any thoughts on this?

Claus Schlund




From: Dan Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Hello All,

I seriously doubt that this gon was used in interchange.

One thing that no one has pointed out, this gon does not comply with the safety appliance act. No ladders on right end
and left end grabs are insufficient.

Any others see the same thing?

Dan Smith

 



Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Some additional info, I believe I have found the approximate date when these cars were ordered from Standard Steel Car Co – see Feb 1925 issue of Railway and Locomotive Engineering page 61 at the link below. The car count (12 cars) and the tonnage (70 tons) is spot on for these gondolas. And so it does appear that Carnegie Steel went to an outside builder for these cars!
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi List Members,
 
Oh, forgot to mention, the fact that these are the only gondolas listed under Carnegie Steel in this ORER makes me think they may have been intended to be interchanged and used for mainline service, not just for in-plant service.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi List Members,
 
I have some more info on the 65 foot gondola CSCO 534... listed under Carnegie Steel Company, it is part of series 526-537 in the Dec 1930 ORER.
 
See info at the link below.
 
 
In particular, “Note A” references these cars and sez “Cars in series 526 to 537 marked C. S. Co., Homestead Works”. The notes further indicate “Make separate reports for cars marked ‘C. S. Co., Homestead Works’ to Wm. Donald, Auditor, Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. June 1930”
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Claus Schlund
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Jack Mullen
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 04:07 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
Dan wrote: “No ladders on right end and left end grabs are insufficient”
 
These gons were built in the late 1920s. What the safety requirements were at the time regarding right side ladders and end grabs, I cannot say.
At that time, and for long thereafter, the U.S. Safety Appliance standards for a low-side gon (sides 36" or less above floor) required only a single horizontal handhold at each end of the side, placed 24" to 36" above coupler centerline. For the ends, horizontal handholds were required on the sill, but handholds were not required on drop ends.  The CSCO car seems to cover the bases.

So, markings meet interchange requirements. Safety appliances meet interchange requirements. The  car is listed in the Equipment Register. It belongs to a steel mill in Pennsylvania, and evidently was photographed in Utah. I'll bet it's in interchange service delivering its owner's steel products.

Jack Mullen